Conference Realignment Thread v. 2016

[SJHooper]

Stever, you are comparing UConn to an average basketball program's standards. UConn just yesterday was one of the most elite basketball programs (men's and women's) constantly in the top 10, going deep all the time in the tourney and winning them. They created a very high standard there. That was during the Big East Calhoun era. It's very clear that UConn post Big East & Calhoun is in a completely new era and not a good one. We have seen them steadily fall off the map nationally ever since the Big East and Calhoun fingerprints were wiped away. So compared to UConn's high standards they set, they are failing...bad. It may have been 2014 when they won the tourney but again it was with Calhoun's players and it feels like it was 10 years ago. No one would ever consider UConn being in the same breath as a Kentucky, Duke, or even a Villanova now. Just yesterday, they were at that level.

As I suspected and said for a while now, eventually the AAC will take its toll on UConn basketball. I was right and so were many others claiming the same. Conferences matter. Prestige matters. That's why I'm so happy we got to keep the Big East brand. We may not be as wealthy as football schools, but we allocate our funds to basketball mostly. We don't try to be something we aren't. We know what our strength is and we are centered around it. UConn was too clouded by delusions of grandeur dreaming of being the next Michigan in football with 100k in the stands. Then reality hit and man did it hit hard. The Northeast is not and will never be a college football region. We don't have the recruits, we don't have the interest, and we don't have any legit programs. For the few college football fans that do live in the Northeast, they are frontrunners and root for Notre Dame, Michigan, and Ohio State. UConn clearly did not get the memo and now they're scrambling.

UConn is like a rock on the shore and the AAC acts as the constant waves slowly eroding it. Every year they remain in the AAC they lose more prestige. Once Geno retires the women's program will be back down to earth as well. I went to Marist for undergrad (St. John's grad school) and we had a top 25 women's team for years there...it seemed like they just automatically dominated every year. Now they are awful. UConn's women won't last either.

[stever20]

All it would take is 1 elite 8 even run and UConn is back where they have been.

Sorry, but in college basketball, conferences matter FAR less than they do in college football. I mean, just look at Gonzaga and tell me that conferences matter. The best the WCC has EVER been is #8, but that's not hurt Gonzaga much at all. Gonzaga has a better brand than a ton of teams in power conferences.

And about what you are saying with the AAC- if that was the case, their recruiting would be getting worse, not better.

[FlyByNight101]

All it would take is 1 elite 8 even run and UConn is back where they have been.

Sorry, but in college basketball, conferences matter FAR less than they do in college football. I mean, just look at Gonzaga and tell me that conferences matter. The best the WCC has EVER been is #8, but that's not hurt Gonzaga much at all. Gonzaga has a better brand than a ton of teams in power conferences.

And about what you are saying with the AAC- if that was the case, their recruiting would be getting worse, not better.

Not particularly taking sides here but I would like to point out that most Creighton fans vehemently disagree with the statement in bold. Gonzaga flourishes in spite of conference affiliation but they are an exception.

[ivet]

All it would take is 1 elite 8 even run and UConn is back where they have been.

Sorry, but in college basketball, conferences matter FAR less than they do in college football. I mean, just look at Gonzaga and tell me that conferences matter. The best the WCC has EVER been is #8, but that's not hurt Gonzaga much at all. Gonzaga has a better brand than a ton of teams in power conferences.

And about what you are saying with the AAC- if that was the case, their recruiting would be getting worse, not better.

Not particularly taking sides here but I would like to point out that most Creighton fans vehemently disagree with the statement in bold. Gonzaga flourishes in spite of conference affiliation but they are an exception.

Maybe Im reading this wrong but you basically confirmed what stever is saying even though you are saying Creighton fans would disagree to that statement. Wouldnt Creighton fans agree to stevers point?

[FlyByNight101]

All it would take is 1 elite 8 even run and UConn is back where they have been.

Sorry, but in college basketball, conferences matter FAR less than they do in college football. I mean, just look at Gonzaga and tell me that conferences matter. The best the WCC has EVER been is #8, but that's not hurt Gonzaga much at all. Gonzaga has a better brand than a ton of teams in power conferences.

And about what you are saying with the AAC- if that was the case, their recruiting would be getting worse, not better.

Not particularly taking sides here but I would like to point out that most Creighton fans vehemently disagree with the statement in bold. Gonzaga flourishes in spite of conference affiliation but they are an exception.

Maybe Im reading this wrong but you basically confirmed what stever is saying even though you are saying Creighton fans would disagree to that statement. Wouldnt Creighton fans agree to stevers point?

The problem with saying that conference affiliation doesn't matter is that a league has a perceived ceiling. There is an inherent disadvantage to playing in The Valley (for example) as compared to the Big East. (for example)
...I still have horrible flashbacks of they Jays being on an 8 game winning streak and watching the RPI drop from the mid 50's to the mid 80's.
A bad conference will drain your soul. That is all I am saying.

[Hall2012]

It's true that conferences matter less in basketball and in football - but that doesn't mean they don't matter at all. Far from it. The reason is the national championship formula. The NCAA Basketball tournament his huge and all inclusive while the CFP is designed to keep group of 5 teams out.

But even in the basketball format, there's a huge advantage to being in a power conference, which comes in the form of room for error. True, schools from non-power conferences aren't shut out of the tournament like in football, but they need everything to break right to get in with any sort of a decent seed. They need to load up the non-conference portion of their schedule with tough games and they need to win those games because the entire second half of the season comes with no opportunity to improve their resume - only repeated opportunities to destroy it. Slip up in just a couple of those games, and all your OOC-work means nothing as you now need to win your conference tournament to be comfortable on selections Sunday. And forget about getting a favorable draw or playing anywhere close to home.

Now let's look at a P6 team. The recipe is to pretty much finish above .500 in conference play and get to 20 wins. No need to kill yourself in non-conference play. Schedule a good mix of easy wins and RPI-boosting losses that gets you into conference play with that 20 win mark within reach. Even if you're stuck on 18 or 19, lucky you, you get more chances in the conference tournament - where wins can help a lot but losses won't hurt much. Same thing with teams comfortably in but playing for seeding.

Again, that doesn't mean it's impossible to be successful from a mid-major conference. Xavier did it successfully for years until getting promoted and Gonzaga still does it successfully. UConn has a national championship as an AAC member. But the odds are a heck of lot worse from outside the P6.

[stever20]

It's true that conferences matter less in basketball and in football - but that doesn't mean they don't matter at all. Far from it. The reason is the national championship formula. The NCAA Basketball tournament his huge and all inclusive while the CFP is designed to keep group of 5 teams out.

But even in the basketball format, there's a huge advantage to being in a power conference, which comes in the form of room for error. True, schools from non-power conferences aren't shut out of the tournament like in football, but they need everything to break right to get in with any sort of a decent seed. They need to load up the non-conference portion of their schedule with tough games and they need to win those games because the entire second half of the season comes with no opportunity to improve their resume - only repeated opportunities to destroy it. Slip up in just a couple of those games, and all your OOC-work means nothing as you now need to win your conference tournament to be comfortable on selections Sunday. And forget about getting a favorable draw or playing anywhere close to home.

Now let's look at a P6 team. The recipe is to pretty much finish above .500 in conference play and get to 20 wins. No need to kill yourself in non-conference play. Schedule a good mix of easy wins and RPI-boosting losses that gets you into conference play with that 20 win mark within reach. Even if you're stuck on 18 or 19, lucky you, you get more chances in the conference tournament - where wins can help a lot but losses won't hurt much. Same thing with teams comfortably in but playing for seeding.

Again, that doesn't mean it's impossible to be successful from a mid-major conference. Xavier did it successfully for years until getting promoted and Gonzaga still does it successfully. UConn has a national championship as an A10 member. But the odds are a heck of lot worse from outside the P6.

The AAC is really a tweener conference if we've ever seen one. Yeah they've got 3-4 pretty weak teams(think 4-5 maybe this year depending on Temple). But they also do have Cincy, SMU, UConn(eventually) who if you beat them that resonates with the committee. I mean last year you can't tell me that Temple and Tulsa didn't make the tourney because of SMU. Temple had 6 OOC losses and made the tourney as a 10 seed-2nd highest 10 seed actually. 6 teams after them got in the tourney.

Also, I would say that the committee has placed a lot of emphasis in the P6 on OOC SOS. SOS matters a lot. Marquette was 20-13, with #108 SOS. Tulsa was 20-11 with #68 SOS. Tulsa got in the tourney. Marquette didn't even make NIT. So I would say that you absolutely even in the P6 have to challenge yourself OOC. Gone are the days where you can have 13 cupcakes.

[ivet]

The problem with saying that conference affiliation doesn't matter is that a league has a perceived ceiling. There is an inherent disadvantage to playing in The Valley (for example) as compared to the Big East. (for example)
...I still have horrible flashbacks of they Jays being on an 8 game winning streak and watching the RPI drop from the mid 50's to the mid 80's.
A bad conference will drain your soul. That is all I am saying.

Ah gotcha, that makes a lot more sense. However...remember when Gonzaga was seeded #1 in the tournament? Even though many, many, many pundits claimed they were un-deserving because of their strength of schedule, i.e. their conference games

UConn has a national championship as an A10 member.

Figure this was a typo but I'm assuming you meant AAC.

[Hall2012]

The problem with saying that conference affiliation doesn't matter is that a league has a perceived ceiling. There is an inherent disadvantage to playing in The Valley (for example) as compared to the Big East. (for example)
...I still have horrible flashbacks of they Jays being on an 8 game winning streak and watching the RPI drop from the mid 50's to the mid 80's.
A bad conference will drain your soul. That is all I am saying.

Ah gotcha, that makes a lot more sense. However...remember when Gonzaga was seeded #1 in the tournament? Even though many, many, many pundits claimed they were un-deserving because of their strength of schedule, i.e. their conference games

UConn has a national championship as an A10 member.

Figure this was a typo but I'm assuming you meant AAC.

Yeah, typo. Thanks for the catch.

[adoraz]

Speaking of UConn, they lost again. This time to Ok State.

The problem with being in a conference like the AAC is if you lose OOC it will be a MAJOR uphill battle with few opportunities for signature wins. That may even hurt the team OOC because they have pressure to perform from the start knowing that they won't have the same opportunities later on. If BIg East teams lose, they know they have many opportunities to pick up quality wins during conference play.

Stever mentioned Gonzaga. Tell me Stever, how many Gonzagas are there and how many national championships do they have?