Conference Realignment Thread v. 2016

[Savannah Jay]

Who knows what will happen, but of programs like Ohio State and Alabama and Texas wake up one day and decide the programs like wake forest and Boston College, etc. are not worth it, then they may take this thing to a 4 x 12 model. They may decide to take it to a 4 x 16 model, wherein those schools would probably just be safe, obviously except for one of them.

Either way, things probably will settle down at least until 2023, unless Texas and Oklahoma, in particular, get uppity.

I wonder...would the real football schools actually want to jettison the mostly guaranteed Ws? Who would they schedule homecoming games against? I say that only half in jest. But if they are going to play 12 regular season football games, do their fans really want all 12 to be against teams that could beat them on a given Saturday? Or do they want to know that their team is probably going have 6 almost guaranteed wins, and then if they go 3-3 against the better teams on their schedule, rah rah, they are 9-3 and get to a nice bowl game. Of course, some coaches are getting fired now after 9-3 seasons.

[Xudash]

Who knows what will happen, but of programs like Ohio State and Alabama and Texas wake up one day and decide the programs like wake forest and Boston College, etc. are not worth it, then they may take this thing to a 4 x 12 model. They may decide to take it to a 4 x 16 model, wherein those schools would probably just be safe, obviously except for one of them.

Either way, things probably will settle down at least until 2023, unless Texas and Oklahoma, in particular, get uppity.

I wonder...would the real football schools actually want to jettison the mostly guaranteed Ws? Who would they schedule homecoming games against? I say that only half in jest. But if they are going to play 12 regular season football games, do their fans really want all 12 to be against teams that could beat them on a given Saturday? Or do they want to know that their team is probably going have 6 almost guaranteed wins, and then if they go 3-3 against the better teams on their schedule, rah rah, they are 9-3 and get to a nice bowl game. Of course, some coaches are getting fired now after 9-3 seasons.

That's a very good and fair point.

Perhaps it depends upon who's point-of-view is in play. The administrative/business people may be more inclined to pay attention to what is best for their schools with respect to money and the playoff system, in particular. The coaching staffs may be more focused on your exact point for job survival and even perhaps for the physical well being of their teams.

Schools like Ohio State, Alabama, Texas, ND and Michigan will sellout at home regardless of the name on the jerseys of the school on the other sideline. Conversely, a tilt between BC and Wake Forest in Winston-Salem or Boston isn't exactly going to have ticket scalpers foaming at the mouth. Even so, especially in those cases where some of the weaker "club" members happen to be charter members or very long established members of their respective conferences, how do you show-up on their doorstep one day to inform them that they've been kicked out of the conference, and the club.

The big schools have already done enough damage to college football. 4 x 16 would limit that damage to virtually where it stands today, save for the one program that would have to be punted to make room for Notre Dame (i.e. if it were to become a "pure" 4 x 16 model). Dropping another 16 schools from the money waterfall might push things politically; some of those 16 may not be top drawer in terms of football, but they still wield power in their respective states. Besides, just as it would be were the big schools to run off and attempt to put together their own basketball tournament, the backlash from both direct and casual fans would be pretty severe at that point.

It is amazing how things have turned out, respecting that more change is down the road at some point. Just consider the two main schools in Cincinnati. Not long ago UC had settled into its Big East membership and was able to elevate its football program from decades of mediocrity through upcoming coaches that built the program up and then moved on. The Yellow Toothed Gnome was over his head, coaching basketball in the Big East, but at least Big East teams were coming to Cincinnati to play basketball against UC.

On the other hand, Xavier had to continue to build its program shackled to a pathetic - in comparison - conference that had teams that either couldn't afford investments in their programs, didn't care about investing in their programs, didn't know how to go about building their programs, or some combination of all the above. Xavier and Temple, in particular, kept the A10 respectable for a number of years. Adding Butler was a solid move. Adding VCU was a solid move for that conference. Still, the A10 was never going to be a serious competitor to the Big East.

Now we come to the present. UC, having spent $80+mm on a Nippert Stadium upgrade with 5/3 upgrades now looming, and having stuck it out with Tommy Tuberville, who is doing everything he can to send UC football back from whence it came, must move forward, slugging it out in the AAC, where we've learned that scotch tape and small mic headsets can work well together.

All that while Xavier was blessed to wake-up from the nightmare of road games to Gola Arena, etc., transitioning to THE basketball-centric conference in the U.S.

I got off track there a little, but the point is that we can settle in now for a while, focusing on the 10 of us, while we continue to build a Big East Conference that can only be regarded as a major conference that racks up impressive results.

[GoldenWarrior11]

FWIW, my personal opinion is that the power conferences have settled who is in their club and will not invite any new members in the near (or long term) future. When you look at call ups from the G4 into the (then) P6, you had Utah and TCU as the only programs that were called up, and they were very strong football programs that earned their way in based on on-field performance, athletic budgets, academics, fan support and willingness to invest more in the programs. Schools like Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Rutgers, Louisville and Notre Dame were able to leave the Big East, which by contract and perception standards was a power conference, for other power conferences. Schools that are in the G5 today have a very small chance of getting promoted, simply because the only way a power conference creates an opening in its league is if another power conference poaches that fellow P5 conference. If the Big 12 ever gets raided, they will simply latch on with another conference and the core schools will remain the same. No elevations, but the possibility of a school getting a demotion is still high (much like we have seen with UConn, UC, Houston, SMU, etc.).

Schools like UConn, Cincinnati, USF, et al., will not get into a "power" conference. All of this investing and spending will prove one day to be a colossal waste of time, energy and resources, and demoralize all of their fan bases immensely. The question then would become how long would a school continue to spend blindly until someone (or some organization) tells them they no longer can.

[DeltaV]

FWIW, my personal opinion is that the power conferences have settled who is in their club and will not invite any new members in the near (or long term) future.
...
Schools like UConn, Cincinnati, USF, et al., will not get into a "power" conference. All of this investing and spending will prove one day to be a colossal waste of time, energy and resources, and demoralize all of their fan bases immensely. The question then would become how long would a school continue to spend blindly until someone (or some organization) tells them they no longer can.

I think the networks have made this decision. They paid off the Big 12 to not expand. I think the P5 are locking the doors to the clubhouse.

[gtmoBlue]

Glad to be here, Proud to serve! Good old Butler, Xavier, and lil' Creighton...snuck into the Big Boys Club...just under the wire. God evidently luvs the Jebbie's, and guided those tea-toddling saints to make their move from old to Renew Big East. Luv me some Jebbies!

I have no sympathy for any of the former BE Brethren-mainly cause other than cheating-_ss S'cuse, I don't know much about the rest. May they run out of wetwipes and their hemorrhoids flair up hourly down in hell. It isn't pretty watching big name schools slut themselves out for a new F5 buck, but it is what it is.

Waited 35+ years for the Jays to make it to Bigtime Hoops. Glad I have lived long enough to have finally seen it. Now, on to the bizness at hand. I want my Big East Championships damnit! Let's Go Blue!

Did I mention that I am/We are Glad to be here - Proud to Serve! Luv ya BEAST, just down right luv ya.

[jaxalum]

Glad to be here, Proud to serve! Good old Butler, Xavier, and lil' Creighton...snuck into the Big Boys Club...just under the wire. God evidently luvs the Jebbie's, and guided those tea-toddling saints to make their move from old to Renew Big East. Luv me some Jebbies!

I have no sympathy for any of the former BE Brethren-mainly cause other than cheating-_ss S'cuse, I don't know much about the rest. May they run out of wetwipes and their hemorrhoids flair up hourly down in hell. It isn't pretty watching big name schools slut themselves out for a new F5 buck, but it is what it is.

Waited 35+ years for the Jays to make it to Bigtime Hoops. Glad I have lived long enough to have finally seen it. Now, on to the bizness at hand. I want my Big East Championships damnit! Let's Go Blue!

Did I mention that I am/We are Glad to be here - Proud to Serve! Luv ya BEAST, just down right luv ya.

I think the last few months for Big East fans has been a combination of interest in the many possible realignment scenarios, the Big 12 monopolizing the conversation, but also a sigh of relief that we are essentially in the best possible place/position we could possibly hope to be (especially the newer "3") and we can grab a bowl of popcorn, a frosty adult beverage, and watch the bedlam ensue. Dash, on one of the last couple of pages, provides a cursory history and present standing of Xavier vs Cincinnati. I'm not sure if our new conference friends understand what a monumental shift thats transpired so rapidly between these two schools, just miles apart, in perception, brand awareness, and overall position on the national stage. UC has won two national championships and had arguably the greatest college basketball player of all time play for them in Oscar Robertson. They were "Big Brother" and “The” school of Cincinnati, and this was for over a hundred years. I will not rehash this part of the story, only to say that for the last 25 plus years, X had a plan in place to keep moving up the conference ladder, and when the conference shakeup came, they wanted to be viewed as desirable as possible as a potential expansion candidate to the most prestigious conference possible.

To me, a small, optical piece of the colossal movement between these two schools position is this: I will use tennis as an arbitrary example (I played at X). The AAC is having their conference championships at "The Memphis Club" in Rhode Island and UC will play teams like Tulsa, USF, and East Carolina. The Big East Conference Championships are played at the Billy Jean King Tennis Center in Flushing, NY. For those that don't follow tennis, that is where they play the F#cking US OPEN! (home to Arthur Ashe Stadium, the largest tennis stadium in the world). XU plays teams like Georgetown (a national brand in itself, considered a flagship academic/athletic institution), Villanova(already possesses a place on the national landscape, both as an academic and athletic institution.....yeah..they are NATIONAL CHAMPIONS as well, by beating the bluest of blue bloods in arguably the greatest Championship game ever played) and St Johns, who has incredible history, and their home court, which happens to be the most famous arena in the world. When/not if, St. Johns becomes a force, their games will become events at The Gardens. New Yorkers love their sports teams, and worship their winning teams. I could go on and on about each team, even the ones that are temporarily down, but they are "name" programs with rich histories.

I’m thinking of parallels where you’re team is "left out" of the alignment frenzy(like UC, Houston, all the other contenders), and your "little brother" hits the repositioning jackpot, and instantly starts experiencing, high levels of success, and how you would feel, especially if it looked like it was going to be permenant; perhaps if Georgetown was shipped to the Patriot League and George Washington was invited to the ACC and dominated. Nova to the AAC and St Josephs to the Big East and does what you guys are doing. St Johns to the AAC and Fordham to the Big East. And pouring salt into such a deep wound is watching their former "little brother" pass them with top 5-10 rankings and pulling in top 5 recruiting classes. I grew up watching UC , and although their fans can be arrogant, ignorant wankers, their recruiting is already starting to suffer and I do feel some compassion. And it's only going to get worse as recruits know the truth now.

SO, IS THE CONSENSUS THAT THE BIG 12, AND THE OTHER BIG CONFERENCES ARE DONE WITH REALIGNMENT, AND NO OTHER TEAMS ARE GETTTING INTO THEIR CLUB…EVER?

[Novachap]

jaxalum.... great post and especially well written at that time of night. Hope there was an adult beverage involved! The st joes analogy was excellent, frankly could be temple too. I cant imagine how we would feel if it were reversed. Thankfully our administration had the foresight to make that jump so many years ago.

I really like the makeup of the league at present. Very few, if any "gimmees". The oldtimer in me misses the Syracuse and uconn home and homes, but alas... football. Fwiw, to me BC started the whole exodus from the BE years ago, look how it worked out for them.

So, this will be a GREAT year for the BE. so much talent, so mamy very good teams. I for one cannot see us continuing the 16-2 trend. Still think/hope we are there at the end, but just too many quality teams and landmines this year. (Guessing 14-4). In any event, so glad x, creighton and Butler are in. Makes for great games from like minded schools. Best of luck this year.

[whiteandblue77]

UCONN and CINCY.... mmmmm, not so great right now.
I'm not big on schadenfreude and fear hubris but this is
macabre: http://the-boneyard.com/threads/should-we-give-up.99298/

[handdownmandown]

The 'flip side' that Jaxalum speaks of us on display over on Shockernet. When we left their resident sociopath and I had a discussion about the ramifications of realignment - and in between saying a) we are destined to get our asses kicked in this league and b) that this new Big East was only maybe a half step up from the Valley, he went on an eloquent rant about how much he hates realignment. But really, his rant was a somewhat sad foreshadowing of what's become of Wichita State: they have a scarlet "V" stuck to their chest that they can't remove and ultimately it will kill them. Even then I realized he was writing his own eulogy. And here we are, 3 plus years later, thriving, while they have a nearly 5000 post thread about the 'best possible outcome' for realignment. I don't go there much at all anymore but that thread is always present on the first page or two.

I've always considered us leaving as a sort of basketball divorce, where one party is saying OH THANK GOD I'm out of that relationship, and the other is saying HOW CAN YOU JUST LEAVE ME LIKE THIS ?!?! Sure feels good to be the former.

One last thing: at some point after I had that discussion,a different CU fan pointed out that we can't both be moving to a lateral conference AND be getting waxed every night; it has to be one or the other so which is it? In a fantastic moment of internet candor, one of their regulars shot back "It's which ever one we feel like is true at the point when we start to type!" I always thought that was as revealing a response as the diatribe about realignment I referenced earlier.

Man that would suck to be on that side of the fence.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

CBS Sports' 1-351 College Basketball Rankings

# 186 Wagner beat # 19 UConn tonight 67-58 at UConn. The Huskies are ranked # 18 in the AP Poll and # 16 in the Coaches Poll, but not for much longer.