Poll - If Gonzaga Should Join Us In Big East...?

[Bill Marsh]

hooligan - i suggest reading past the first line of my post - it's clear you did not

i don't think anyone insinuated that that they are busing - again - go back and look - two/three plane changes from providence to spokane - i'm guessing once you get to SEATAC - every destination in the WCC is direct.

1250 miles - SEATAC - San Diego - a hike but maybe 3.5 hours - not too bad - doable since direct

3025 miles - SEATAC - Providence - good god!
2870 miles - SEATAC - LaGuardia - ever so slightly less sucky than to PU

the truth is - CU is in the best shape of any school as far as travel goes if GU were added - but i still think this is asking far too much of our student athletes.

[Bill Marsh]

Gonzaga will not be a member of the Big East.

this - i'm done debating it with people who won't read the entirety of an argument.

it just isn't going to happen. the presidents won't go for it.

CU Jays Fan, I've bumped every post you've made on this thread so that they're all in one place. I won't even attempt to summarize your argument; I'll leave that to yo or will let your words speak for themselves.

I and others have responded to every point you've made while you have not responded to the points that contradict your argument. Obviously I have read the entirety of your argument as I bumped all of your posts. How about returning the favor and responding to the counter arguments which have been offered to you?

When you make comments claiming that it's a "pointless questions" or that logistics are "insane", you don't come across as being open minded enough to have give-and-take on the issue. If you simply want other posters to take your comments as the last word on the subject, fine. But forgive me if I don't accept the claim that I or anyone else hasn't read the entirety of your argument. It's a complex situation and the fact that others don't agree with you doesn't indicate that they haven't read or understood what you're proposing.

I too once thought that it was impossible and that the distance was too great. But the more I've dug into it, I've come to realize that it actually is feasible and is in fact already being done in conferences like the Big West and the WAC and was done in the past over shorter but equally time consuming distances when travel was by bus and/or train.

The more important issue here IMHO is what the shape of expansion should be. I think that the conference is fine with 10 members. Apparently someone else doesn't or the Xavier AD wouldn't be coming out with a comment that there will be expansion within 5 years. If in fact that is the case, I believe that it would be a mistake to expand with programs that don't have any proven track record. That would water down the conference, would defeat a large part of the purpose for which it was founded, and would jeopardize the TV revenue which allows the conference to exist at this level in the first place. As I look at the available candidates, I see very few who have demonstrated for any substantial length of time that they can compete at this level and who can make the conference better. Gonzaga is the rare candidate who could do that and who is a perfect institutional fit. If you disagree, explain in what direction you would go with expansion candidates and be prepared to defend those choices. The worst anyone can say about Gonzaga is that there are travel and logistical issues.

[cujaysfan]

exactly what wasn't responded to?

people mention charter flights - i've stated that only basketball takes charter flights - and that this is really screwing all other sports except basketball - also recognizing that these are some looooong ass trips for a chartered situation as well

someone mentioned that student athletes can "study on a plane" or "in an airport" - i stated that this isn't a substitute for being in class or even having a slight chance to function as a normal part of the student body and that experience. i care about CU's kids - and want them to have a positive collegiate experience. that others ignore or discount that is telling and frankly, disappointing for grads of institutions espousing judeo-Christian ethics. it's a mentality that i'd expect to exist in so called university "basketball factories".

someone doesn't like that i've focused on the outlier of providence or NYC to spokane - even though it seems foolish to work off an average when the worst case situation should be considered - which is exactly what i did.

others have mentioned split divisions - it still doesn't really solve the travel issue - it barely salves it. if X becomes the eastern most of a "western division" - that's still traveling across four time zones and 2000 miles one way

adding BYU or san diego or whoever - seems silly. while adding GU would be great if the fit could be there - doing it at the cost of some pretty mediocre programs (one that doesn't have institutional fit - and the other that has been playing fast and loose with NCAA rules doesn't seem terribly attractive). it's like dating kate upton's ugly cousin so you can hang out with kate once a year at thanksgiving...

why did i choose seatac vs spokane? i doubt there are direct flights from spokane to san diego - so i tried to be fair in that instance in choosing that particular airport for GU's farthest current WCC travel and frankly - it doesn't make much difference - excepting charter flights - all travel for GU in NBE would go through SEATAC - so it was an apples to apples comparison.

this stuff all seems pretty obvious to me.

does GU have a better basketball argument to join NBE over SLU, Richmond, Dayton, etc? Of course - but that doesn't really make it a situation worth considering after quickly looking at the overall picture.

edit - and as a final point - i'd be terribly disappointed in GU and their role of "in loco parentis" for the entire athletic dept - so that they could milk some more bucks from their basketball program

[hoyahooligan]

exactly what wasn't responded to?

people mention charter flights - i've stated that only basketball takes charter flights - and that this is really screwing all other sports except basketball - also recognizing that these are some looooong ass trips for a chartered situation as well

someone mentioned that student athletes can "study on a plane" or "in an airport" - i stated that this isn't a substitute for being in class or even having a slight chance to function as a normal part of the student body and that experience. i care about CU's kids - and want them to have a positive collegiate experience. that others ignore or discount that is telling and frankly, disappointing for grads of institutions espousing judeo-Christian ethics. it's a mentality that i'd expect to exist in so called university "basketball factories".

someone doesn't like that i've focused on the outlier of providence or NYC to spokane - even though it seems foolish to work off an average when the worst case situation should be considered - which is exactly what i did.

others have mentioned split divisions - it still doesn't really solve the travel issue - it barely salves it. if X becomes the eastern most of a "western division" - that's still traveling across four time zones and 2000 miles one way

adding BYU or san diego or whoever - seems silly. while adding GU would be great if the fit could be there - doing it at the cost of some pretty mediocre programs (one that doesn't have institutional fit - and the other that has been playing fast and loose with NCAA rules doesn't seem terribly attractive). it's like dating kate upton's ugly cousin so you can hang out with kate once a year at thanksgiving...

why did i choose seatac vs spokane? i doubt there are direct flights from spokane to san diego - so i tried to be fair in that instance in choosing that particular airport for GU's farthest current WCC travel and frankly - it doesn't make much difference - excepting charter flights - all travel for GU in NBE would go through SEATAC - so it was an apples to apples comparison.

this stuff all seems pretty obvious to me.

does GU have a better basketball argument to join NBE over SLU, Richmond, Dayton, etc? Of course - but that doesn't really make it a situation worth considering after quickly looking at the overall picture.

edit - and as a final point - i'd be terribly disappointed in GU and their role of "in loco parentis" for the entire athletic dept - so that they could milk some more bucks from their basketball program

I just greatly feel you're exaggerating the amount of time Students would miss from school compared to the amount they already miss traveling all over the country for Basketball. Getting to Spokane once a year is not going to cause any student from missing substantial amount of class. At worst they miss 1 extra day every other year compared to what they would normally miss. How on earth is one game ruining their collegiate experience and making them unable to participate in the normal student experience?

Guess what class attendance is not mandatory. There are plenty of normal students who miss class all the time with out legitimate excuses. They study the readings and the power points and they do just fine. That's modern college education. A lot of learning I'd say most learning takes place outside of the classroom in order to understand what the professor taught in class.

[Friarfan2]

If we are going to expand past 10 teams, make sure they are worth it.

I prefer 10 teams, but if we expand, then I would like to see BYU, gonzaga, St. Louis, and two others (Wichita state? Some other western team?). 3dividions with 5 teams (1. Pc, sju, shu, nova, gtown, 2. Xavier, Marquette, DePaul, St. Louis, butler, 3. Creighton, Wichita, gonzaga, BYU, other)

[Friarfan2]

I voted NO since I was critical of the last version of the Big East inviting schools like Boise State to be members. For me to vote YES on Gonzaga to join the current version of the Big East would be hypocritical of me.

Boise State was a one trick pony - football only. And they had nothing in common with any of the other schools. Inviting a basketball-first Jesuit college for all sports to a Catholic school conference built around basketball is a completely different animal.

Exactly

[cujaysfan]

not for GU kids i'm not - by your math - that's an additional 10-11 days they'd be missing. that's a sh*tload.

i find the second point kind of laughable. i really don't have an issue with kids "skipping" class - they have that choice. hell - i did it myself - and would encourage others to do the same on occasion - for the right reasons. but - these kids won't have the option - they're just going to be on the road.

[Jet915]

I think the travel obviously is a valid point but I think it's a bit overstated. "If" the Big East were to add Gonzaga, BYU, SLU and Richmond and get to 14, you could play a 16 game conference schedule and Gonzaga would only have to play 3 east coast road games a year and could probably do that in one swing. East coast teams would only have to play Gonzaga/BYU on the road every other year. The same for team sports, I don't think it would be a huge burden on the students.

[gmoser1210]

I'd rather have Gonzaga than any other candidate that's been mentioned. Private, no FBS football team, and they've shown an ability to have sustained basketball success beyond two or three years, which certainly doesn't fit Dayton, Richmond, or SLU.

Couldn't pass up another shot at Saint Louis, could ya?

You found me out. I was clearly taking a shot at SLU and not making a general point about all three schools that are regularly discussed as viable candidates.

[cm5yz6]

Gonzaga will not be a member of the Big East.

this - i'm done debating it with people who won't read the entirety of an argument.

it just isn't going to happen. the presidents won't go for it.

CU Jays Fan, I've bumped every post you've made on this thread so that they're all in one place. I won't even attempt to summarize your argument; I'll leave that to yo or will let your words speak for themselves.

I and others have responded to every point you've made while you have not responded to the points that contradict your argument. Obviously I have read the entirety of your argument as I bumped all of your posts. How about returning the favor and responding to the counter arguments which have been offered to you?

When you make comments claiming that it's a "pointless questions" or that logistics are "insane", you don't come across as being open minded enough to have give-and-take on the issue. If you simply want other posters to take your comments as the last word on the subject, fine. But forgive me if I don't accept the claim that I or anyone else hasn't read the entirety of your argument. It's a complex situation and the fact that others don't agree with you doesn't indicate that they haven't read or understood what you're proposing.

I too once thought that it was impossible and that the distance was too great. But the more I've dug into it, I've come to realize that it actually is feasible and is in fact already being done in conferences like the Big West and the WAC and was done in the past over shorter but equally time consuming distances when travel was by bus and/or train.

The more important issue here IMHO is what the shape of expansion should be. I think that the conference is fine with 10 members. Apparently someone else doesn't or the Xavier AD wouldn't be coming out with a comment that there will be expansion within 5 years. If in fact that is the case, I believe that it would be a mistake to expand with programs that don't have any proven track record. That would water down the conference, would defeat a large part of the purpose for which it was founded, and would jeopardize the TV revenue which allows the conference to exist at this level in the first place. As I look at the available candidates, I see very few who have demonstrated for any substantial length of time that they can compete at this level and who can make the conference better. Gonzaga is the rare candidate who could do that and who is a perfect institutional fit. If you disagree, explain in what direction you would go with expansion candidates and be prepared to defend those choices. The worst anyone can say about Gonzaga is that there are travel and logistical issues.

Have we considered the possibility that meteors destroy all the colleges except the current NBE and Gonzaga? Then it would only make sense that they would join... The answer is no we haven't considered that because it is stupid. Gonzaga requiring a cross country trip for every league game for every sport (or even just for basketball if you want to argue that route) to be in the Big East and enough of the Big East presidents deciding that its worth it over any of the other schools they could choose from (including not choosing any) is not as ridiculous as the meteors but both have the same 0% of happening.

And I would appreciate it if you didn't "bump" my message off the recent page - thank you.