If McDermott wins NPOY where will he rank in Big East lore?

[IowaJay]

I love watching him play, but McDermott needs an NCAA run to elevate his lifetime resume. Sucks that might be the case I know, but that is where players are judged.

Dew has it right. Few things elevate an NCAA player more than winning in the NCAAs. However, media exposure is another important component. Historically reserved for only the top programs, the new Big East's agreement with FoxSports1 means that fans get to see nearly every game. It's one thing to hear or read about a player scoring 39 points or hitting a game-winning shot; it's another to be able to recall the experience. In some fans' minds, McDermott will never reach the level of lore achieved by players in the old conference. Some will argue that the league is currently--if not irrevocably--weakened without some of the old members. The teams in this-year's version of the BE can silence the detractors by collectively doing well in this year's tournament. And, McDermott would elevate his standing by leading his team to the Final Four and winning NPOY. GO JAYS!

[stever20]

I love watching him play, but McDermott needs an NCAA run to elevate his lifetime resume. Sucks that might be the case I know, but that is where players are judged.

Dew has it right. Few things elevate an NCAA player more than winning in the NCAAs. However, media exposure is another important component. Historically reserved for only the top programs, the new Big East's agreement with FoxSports1 means that fans get to see nearly every game. It's one thing to hear or read about a player scoring 39 points or hitting a game-winning shot; it's another to be able to recall the experience. In some fans' minds, McDermott will never reach the level of lore achieved by players in the old conference. Some will argue that the league is currently--if not irrevocably--weakened without some of the old members. The teams in this-year's version of the BE can silence the detractors by collectively doing well in this year's tournament. And, McDermott would elevate his standing by leading his team to the Final Four and winning NPOY. GO JAYS!

Definitely agree that it's going to happen in the NCAA tourney for him to be elevated on the lifetime resume. Another round of 32 exit wouldn't be good at all...

I think what you are sayign about media exposure is fine for the die hard fans. But right now, FS1 isn't exactly a must watch channel for the casual fans.

[Randy]

I agree. Doug has cemented his place in Creighton history as the program's best player of all time. He will end up as the 5th (= or - a spot or two) all time NCAA scorer of all time. However, when I look at the top 10, i don't know half of the names. I do know Steph Curry, Christian Laetner, Carmelo Anthony, Kemba Walker. CBB "lore" is defined in March. Its that simple.

[redmen9194]

It's hard to say where Doug would rank among the all time Big East greats. First, he played just one season in the league. Carmello Anthony played just one season and won a championship but he is usually not in the top ten players of all time. Also, the bulk of Dougs accomplishments came in the Valley. If Doug was playing in the Big East the last three years would he have the numbers he currently has? His first season would have been 2010-2011 when every Big East team would have what was known as the gauntlet - 4-5 straight games against a ranked opponent. UConn won every single non conference game on it's schedule that season including the National Championship yet finished 9-9. To win the Big East Tournament you generally had to beat three ranked teams some years. So it is really difficult to place him high on the list. I think there is no doubt he is the player of the year nationally and I can't really think of any serious challenges to him on that score. He is an amazing player. But if you put him in the top ten in the league, who do you leave out? Now if Creighton wins a championship then you have to consider him with the all time conference greats even if it was just one year.

[cu blujs]

I don't disagree that it would be hard to count Doug among the top 10 all time Big East players due to playing in the league just one year. However, I have no doubt he would have put up equal numbers had he played in the Big East the past two or three years. He has consistently showed that he can be highly productive against major conference teams throughout his career. Nothing that has happened this year or in non-conference or tournament games against major conference opponents in the past three years indicates to this biased obvserver that his production would have been any less playing in any conference in the country. In fact, it may have been higher given that defenses in the MVC consisted of much more clutching and holding defense than occurs in the Big East. I don't think Doug is any where near as beat up this year as he was by the end of the last two seasons. The Big East has bigger, more athletic players, but they also play physical defense how it should be played instead of the way less athletic players were allowed to defend (mug) him in the MVC.

[Bluejay]

It's hard to say where Doug would rank among the all time Big East greats. First, he played just one season in the league. Carmello Anthony played just one season and won a championship but he is usually not in the top ten players of all time. Also, the bulk of Dougs accomplishments came in the Valley. If Doug was playing in the Big East the last three years would he have the numbers he currently has? His first season would have been 2010-2011 when every Big East team would have what was known as the gauntlet - 4-5 straight games against a ranked opponent. UConn won every single non conference game on it's schedule that season including the National Championship yet finished 9-9. To win the Big East Tournament you generally had to beat three ranked teams some years. So it is really difficult to place him high on the list. I think there is no doubt he is the player of the year nationally and I can't really think of any serious challenges to him on that score. He is an amazing player. But if you put him in the top ten in the league, who do you leave out? Now if Creighton wins a championship then you have to consider him with the all time conference greats even if it was just one year.

You realize all of these exact same things were said before the start of this year's season, right?

[redmen9194]

I do realize that, and make no mistake I don't see another player coming close to being National Player of the Year. Maybe I'm not following anyone else close enough but I'm not sure who the other candidates would be. If you are going to say defense in the MVC was more tolling than in the old Big East then you didn't watch enough old Big East games. There was heavy contact from beginning to end. If you came down the lane there was going to be contact. It was a grind every night. In particular of the old group, teams like Pitt and Cincy were tremendously physical. It's hard to say how Doug would have done having to do that for three years every night. And the way the teams were the last five years in particular, you would play 3-4 ranked teams in a row at times. SO you are going to the Dome for Cuse, home for Cincy, road for Pitt, road for G'Town, etc. Big difference. An NCAA championship would change the equation though if Doug can get the Jays there this season.

[sciencejay]

For those of you OBE-ers, what is your definition of the Old Big East? As an avid college hoops fan since the early 80s (advent of ESPN), I have consumed as much as I could, so for me, the OBE is mostly St. Johns, G'town, Syracuse, Nova and Seton Hall. No disrespect meant to PC or anyone else, but those are the teams (all with memorable coaches) who I watched on TV as a kid (grew up in Wyoming, so nothing was local although the Cowboys were actually Sweet 16 good in the mid 80's). Then it seems like PC and UConn helped to carry the torch starting in the 90s, with Cincy, Marquette coming later and Pitt/Ville/ND coming much more recently.

I'm not saying my memory is completely accurate, and I haven't looked up archives to see who joined when and who was successful when, but that is how I remember things.

So when you all consider DM's candidacy in BE conference lore, what is your point of reference?

[NJRedman]

Doug only having a single season in the Big East will hurt his standings on all time BE players.

As for the comments about he would have the same #'s if he played in the old BE, thats a joke right? I mean his freshman year he would have been playing in a conference where 11 of the 16 teams made the NCAA's and the 9th place team won the National Title. To think he would have had the same type of year against that competition is just silly.

Here is St. John's schedule from that year.

@WVU
@Prov
GTown
@ND
Cuse
ND
@UofL
Cincy
@GTown
Rutgers
UConn
@Cincy
@Marq
Pitt
DePaul
@Nova
@Seton Hall
USF

Thats 13 games in conference against tournament teams. The MVC at it's best couldn't even come close to comparing to this.

[stever20]

Doug only having a single season in the Big East will hurt his standings on all time BE players.

As for the comments about he would have the same #'s if he played in the old BE, thats a joke right? I mean his freshman year he would have been playing in a conference where 11 of the 16 teams made the NCAA's and the 9th place team won the National Title. To think he would have had the same type of year against that competition is just silly.

Here is St. John's schedule from that year.

@WVU
@Prov
GTown
@ND
Cuse
ND
@UofL
Cincy
@GTown
Rutgers
UConn
@Cincy
@Marq
Pitt
DePaul
@Nova
@Seton Hall
USF

Thats 13 games in conference against tournament teams. The MVC at it's best couldn't even come close to comparing to this.

The thing though is, he still had 21 OOC games that year. Might not have had as tough of a OOC schedule as well. Also, 5 games in conference against non tourney teams. So may have been a smidge down, but not as much as you would think.