Conference Realignment: What Next?

[DeadHeadHoya]

I wonder if Syracuse , pitt and MD come crawling back . BC? Lol

MD probably is very happy with the money and stability that the B1G provides.

BC is the ultimate poster child for prioritizing money over proper alignment. BC is out to sea in all this.

The other 2 should come “home”, but won’t until dramatic change takes place.

Typo! I meant to say ND not MD!

I guess it worked for both haha

[Bogg]

Is Detroit Mercy maybe the biggest surprise of a market that would have been such a fit for the Big East but just no luck there at all?

I'd say the combination of BU/Northeastern actually. Detroit Mercy you can legitimately argue that they just don't have the money or enrollment to support the kind of investment required. Northeastern and BU have endowments of over 1 and 3 billion respectively, enrollments around 30k, and perfect geography, but they just don't want it.

[MUBoxer]

Is Detroit Mercy maybe the biggest surprise of a market that would have been such a fit for the Big East but just no luck there at all?

I'd say the combination of BU/Northeastern actually. Detroit Mercy you can legitimately argue that they just don't have the money or enrollment to support the kind of investment required. Northeastern and BU have endowments of over 1 and 3 billion respectively, enrollments around 30k, and perfect geography, but they just don't want it.

Well yeah Boston is obvious the outlier of missing markets that logically make sense (unless you want Buffalo!) But Detroit is for sure one of the major ones. I do agree with your other post that Detroit Mercy isn't feasible, just was more commenting on the "wait and see" approach. I do think you aren't giving Belmont enough credit. I'd say due to their conference the only game you should really look at as a comp to what type of attendance they'd get is the Murray State game. Beyond that, they're bringing in trash that I wouldn't go see either. Remember Butler skyrocketed from Horizon league to BE in no time, Belmonts now in the MVC which is the next tier. I'd wait to see what type of attendance they receive next year before writing them off.

As far as SLU goes, I have to ask have you been to St Louis? It's not like every other city in the Big East. It's the epitome of "urban decay" they have soulard and ballpark village (not relevant for basketball), everything else is literally falling apart, especially downtown where it was so bad they thought "let's take this massive vacant building and build a playground because nobody on earth wants to come to downtown St. Louis otherwise"

[Bogg]

Well yeah Boston is obvious the outlier of missing markets that logically make sense (unless you want Buffalo!) But Detroit is for sure one of the major ones. I do agree with your other post that Detroit Mercy isn't feasible, just was more commenting on the "wait and see" approach. I do think you aren't giving Belmont enough credit. I'd say due to their conference the only game you should really look at as a comp to what type of attendance they'd get is the Murray State game. Beyond that, they're bringing in trash that I wouldn't go see either. Remember Butler skyrocketed from Horizon league to BE in no time, Belmonts now in the MVC which is the next tier. I'd wait to see what type of attendance they receive next year before writing them off.

As far as SLU goes, I have to ask have you been to St Louis? It's not like every other city in the Big East. It's the epitome of "urban decay" they have soulard and ballpark village (not relevant for basketball), everything else is literally falling apart, especially downtown where it was so bad they thought "let's take this massive vacant building and build a playground because nobody on earth wants to come to downtown St. Louis otherwise"

Butler had just went to back-to-back national championships and, let's face it, was a screaming geographic fit at a time of need, while Belmont's never once been to the second round of the NCAA tournament. The Bruins have done a good job of beating up on one of the worst conferences in D1, but SLU is a dramatically better fit in every way regardless of how you may personally feel about Saint Louis as a city.

[MUBoxer]

Well yeah Boston is obvious the outlier of missing markets that logically make sense (unless you want Buffalo!) But Detroit is for sure one of the major ones. I do agree with your other post that Detroit Mercy isn't feasible, just was more commenting on the "wait and see" approach. I do think you aren't giving Belmont enough credit. I'd say due to their conference the only game you should really look at as a comp to what type of attendance they'd get is the Murray State game. Beyond that, they're bringing in trash that I wouldn't go see either. Remember Butler skyrocketed from Horizon league to BE in no time, Belmonts now in the MVC which is the next tier. I'd wait to see what type of attendance they receive next year before writing them off.

As far as SLU goes, I have to ask have you been to St Louis? It's not like every other city in the Big East. It's the epitome of "urban decay" they have soulard and ballpark village (not relevant for basketball), everything else is literally falling apart, especially downtown where it was so bad they thought "let's take this massive vacant building and build a playground because nobody on earth wants to come to downtown St. Louis otherwise"

Butler had just went to back-to-back national championships and, let's face it, was a screaming geographic fit at a time of need, while Belmont's never once been to the second round of the NCAA tournament. The Bruins have done a good job of beating up on one of the worst conferences in D1, but SLU is a dramatically better fit in every way regardless of how you may personally feel about Saint Louis as a city.

Not my personal feeling, they rank as the top major city for population loss, one of the highest for job loss, 4th highest crime per capita. My personal opinion where it doesn't fit is from having been to every city in the Big East (UConn not included, but have been to the markets in consideration) and noticing that one of these things is not like the others.

You might look at a map and some basketball relevance and think it's a good idea, but it's not a place that is going to grow local fandom, or be a positive experience for alumni traveling to road games.

[Hall2012]

Is Detroit Mercy maybe the biggest surprise of a market that would have been such a fit for the Big East but just no luck there at all?

I'd say the combination of BU/Northeastern actually. Detroit Mercy you can legitimately argue that they just don't have the money or enrollment to support the kind of investment required. Northeastern and BU have endowments of over 1 and 3 billion respectively, enrollments around 30k, and perfect geography, but they just don't want it.

Well yeah Boston is obvious the outlier of missing markets that logically make sense (unless you want Buffalo!) But Detroit is for sure one of the major ones. I do agree with your other post that Detroit Mercy isn't feasible, just was more commenting on the "wait and see" approach. I do think you aren't giving Belmont enough credit. I'd say due to their conference the only game you should really look at as a comp to what type of attendance they'd get is the Murray State game. Beyond that, they're bringing in trash that I wouldn't go see either. Remember Butler skyrocketed from Horizon league to BE in no time, Belmonts now in the MVC which is the next tier. I'd wait to see what type of attendance they receive next year before writing them off.

As far as SLU goes, I have to ask have you been to St Louis? It's not like every other city in the Big East. It's the epitome of "urban decay" they have soulard and ballpark village (not relevant for basketball), everything else is literally falling apart, especially downtown where it was so bad they thought "let's take this massive vacant building and build a playground because nobody on earth wants to come to downtown St. Louis otherwise"

While I agree its different from other Big East cities in that the population resides almost exclusively in the suburbs, there actually is currently a lot of investment being put into revizalizing the city, not least of which includes the downtown MLS Stadium. That's a little contrary to the point anyway. The selling points on Saint Louis are that it's a large DMA (think beyond city proper, and there's some beautiful areas only 10-15 minutes away) and that it's a massive sports city. The Cardinals and Blues both draw as well as anybody in their respective leagues (both in the stands and on TV). And then of course what the school has - an upper third A10 team with a nice on-campus, 10k+ capacity arena and a coach that's proven he's capable of consistenly making the NCAAs in a high major conference (winning in the NCAAs is a different story, but he's far from the only one with that problem).

[stever20]

While I agree its different from other Big East cities in that the population resides almost exclusively in the suburbs, there actually is currently a lot of investment being put into revizalizing the city, not least of which includes the downtown MLS Stadium. That's a little contrary to the point anyway. The selling points on Saint Louis are that it's a large DMA (think beyond city proper, and there's some beautiful areas only 10-15 minutes away) and that it's a massive sports city. The Cardinals and Blues both draw as well as anybody in their respective leagues (both in the stands and on TV). And then of course what the school has - an upper third A10 team with a nice on-campus, 10k+ capacity arena and a coach that's proven he's capable of consistenly making the NCAAs in a high major conference (winning in the NCAAs is a different story, but he's far from the only one with that problem).

I just wonder how much longer Ford will be there. Think we're going to see a lot of openings this year and could easily see Ford poached away.

Still wonder if Majerus been healthy- think SLU is already in the Big East from the get go in 2013. How differently would things be now?

[Hall2012]

While I agree its different from other Big East cities in that the population resides almost exclusively in the suburbs, there actually is currently a lot of investment being put into revizalizing the city, not least of which includes the downtown MLS Stadium. That's a little contrary to the point anyway. The selling points on Saint Louis are that it's a large DMA (think beyond city proper, and there's some beautiful areas only 10-15 minutes away) and that it's a massive sports city. The Cardinals and Blues both draw as well as anybody in their respective leagues (both in the stands and on TV). And then of course what the school has - an upper third A10 team with a nice on-campus, 10k+ capacity arena and a coach that's proven he's capable of consistenly making the NCAAs in a high major conference (winning in the NCAAs is a different story, but he's far from the only one with that problem).

I just wonder how much longer Ford will be there. Think we're going to see a lot of openings this year and could easily see Ford poached away.

Still wonder if Majerus been healthy- think SLU is already in the Big East from the get go in 2013. How differently would things be now?

They'd certainly have an easier time holding on to him if they were in the Big East lol

[Bogg]

Not my personal feeling, they rank as the top major city for population loss, one of the highest for job loss, 4th highest crime per capita. My personal opinion where it doesn't fit is from having been to every city in the Big East (UConn not included, but have been to the markets in consideration) and noticing that one of these things is not like the others.

You might look at a map and some basketball relevance and think it's a good idea, but it's not a place that is going to grow local fandom, or be a positive experience for alumni traveling to road games.

I hate to be the one to break it to you, but if the Big East expands for the next media deal it's going to be with a school located in a place that isn't particularly nice to vacation to, particularly in January/February. The options are pretty much Spokane, Saint Louis, Dayton, or Richmond (either school). Geography and basketball relevance (the latter more than the former) are all this is about.

[adoraz]

I find it hilarious that #87 Dayton fans are lobbying for their inclusion in a league with 4 ranked teams and 6/7 likely bids this year. But hey, at least to their credit they are passionate enough to post here. Haven't seen many St. Louis or Belmont fans on HLOH (likely because none of them think they belong in this league... if even they don't then why would anyone here?).

As I've said many times, the only available team that I'd take right now is Gonzaga. No other team even comes close.

2 questions to ask:
1. Would Dayton/St. Louis/VCU/Belmont/Richmond/etc. increase TV payouts per school? I find that incredibly hard to believe.
2. Would anyone here want to replace several of their Big East games each year (chosen to random) with teams like Dayton or St. Louis? Just for example, replace Villanova (H) with Dayton (H), replace Xavier (A) with Dayton (A), replace Georgetown (H) with St. Louis (H) and replace Providence (A) with St. Louis (A)? Maybe once in a blue moon when Dayton is ranked top 10 or whatever, but 95% of the time Dayton/St. Louis/VCU/Belmont/Richmond/etc. matchups would be downgrades vs the average Big East school. I'd even prefer to play bottom feeder Georgetown most years over Dayton because Georgetown has much more historical significance for St. John's fans. Also, keep in mind that with more teams all 11 of us would have lower odds of winning the BET. Winning the BET was huge for Georgetown (and the league) last year.

I'm really struggling to come up with a reason why anyone outside of Gonzaga would help this league, and Gonzaga of course has location issues. For now I see no reason to expand, unless Gonzaga can work or a Power team becomes available (unlikely).