Conference realignment discussion - v. 2015

[Bill Marsh]

Actually Gonzaga has made the second weekend 6 times since 1999 and twice they've gone to the Elite 8.

What happens after Few leaves? Can't you say that about any school with a successful coach. Few isn't the coach who built them into a tournament team or who got them to their first Elite 8. So, the program's success isn't all about him.

The issue that has to be addressed with any program is whether they've shown the level of investment and commitment to compete at this level. IMO, Gonzaga has shown that.

I would prefer that the conference stay at 10. The only reason we're talking about this is that expansion has been an open question since the formation of the league. If the BE were to expand, who is a better candidate to maintain or even elevate the stature of the league? Who will help to build interest for TV ratings? And tournament ticket sales. If there were an obvious answer to these questions not located on the Idaho border, Gonzaga wouldn't be in the conversation.

So I misread their page. They have made it to the second weekend 5 times with 2 Elite Eights. They have not won a single NCAA tournament game without Mark Few.

Dan Monson was Mark Few's predecessor and mentor at Gonzaga. Few was Monson's assistant before Few was named head coach at Gonzaga upon Monson's resignation. Monson is the one who built the foundation for Gonzaga's WCC dynasty, positioning Few for his successful run since then.

Dan Monson took Gonzaga to the Elite 8 in 1999. Gonzaga has in fact won a few NCAA games without Mark Few.

[UD FAN]

I would be sympathetic to Dayton getting in, but their fans on here make me dead set against them. They have a full complement on here already and are in full blown hair trigger mode - on someone else's board. I can't imagine what life would be like on here if they were legitimately given the run of the place.

Boggles the mind, it does.

Yea, The University of Dayton is a good fit for the many, many, many reasons detailed (mostly by Bill and other NON UD FLYER FANS in the numerous posts over the past 6 months) --------but the 5-6 annoying folks posting on the holyland forums ruin it for the institution and therefore let's chose not to expand! Some of you guys/gals make me laugh! Talk about "boggling the mind" ! LOL

Jesus UDFAN, did you walk into that one with a flippant response. And yes, from a conference fans standpoint, it would suck seven different ways from Sunday if your insufferable ilk, god forbid, was invited into this conference. This board would become absolutely unreadable. I can't speak for other X fans, but I can say with some level of certainty that it's not the guys on UDs teams, or Archie, or the administration that's the sore point. I would say there is amicable indifference to real respect there. It's the egregiously knobbish fan base that's the problem. And it's absolutely NOT 4-5 posters. It's the majority. Case and point, posters here who have never been exposed to UD "fandom" find you insufferable to.

Jax, as was pointed out several pages ago, there are numerous posters who find "some" of the Xavier fans posting here and there ongoing mantra about UD and it's fans "insufferable" (your word)---------did you miss that portion of the thread? The posts cited? Come on already, we're talking about college basketball?

As to the rest of your post, try english next time you want to go on the next rant about UD and it's "insufferable ilk". No need to try and impress. LOL

Again, X has a great basketball resume'-----OK! OK? For all the constant complaints by you and a couple other folks here and abroad about UD (whether it's complaints about some of it's fans OR the institutions "unworthiness" for Big east membership) from several of the Xavier's fans perspective-------it's just that. Your perspective! Most folks on this board have acknowledged as much over the course of the past several years---despite the constant and ongoing posts like the one I cited above!

Give it a break already....and yes, UD has thousands and thousands of fans all over the country. Only a couple posting on "your" holy forum! Try and get over your self if you can actually under stand how silly you sound!

[Bluejay]

Actually Gonzaga has made the second weekend 4 times since 1999 and twice they've gone to the Elite 8.

What happens after Few leaves? Can't you say that about any school with a successful coach. Few isn't the coach who built them into a tournament team or who got them to their first Elite 8. So, the program's success isn't all about him.

The issue that has to be addressed with any program is whether they've shown the level of investment and commitment to compete at this level. IMO, Gonzaga has shown that.

I would prefer that the conference stay at 10. The only reason we're talking about this is that expansion has been an open question since the formation of the league. If the BE were to expand, who is a better candidate to maintain or even elevate the stature of the league? Who will help to build interest for TV ratings? And tournament ticket sales. If there were an obvious answer to these questions not located on the Idaho border, Gonzaga wouldn't be in the conversation.

So I misread their page. They have made it to the second weekend 5 times with 2 Elite Eights. They have not won a single NCAA tournament game without Mark Few.

Dan Monson was Mark Few's predecessor and mentor at Gonzaga. Few was Monson's assistant before Few was named head coach at Gonzaga upon Monson's resignation. Monson is the one who built the foundation for Gonzaga's WCC dynasty, positioning Few for his successful run since then.

Dan Monson took Gonzaga to the Elite 8 in 1999. Gonzaga has in fact won a few NCAA games without Mark Few.

Too bad he didn't find a way to move the campus further east so that Gonzaga discussions would be relevant to the thread topic.

[_lh]

Yes, conference affiliation is far less important in college basketball than it is for college football. Memphis and Bulter, along with others have proven this time and again.

Gonzaga being on the west coast is a huge advantage for them over a school like XU for example. Gonzaga has gotten plenty of attention and great seeds out of the WCC. They don't need the BE like a team like XU does.

I want to stay at 10 unless UCONN can be added.

[Bill Marsh]

Yes, conference affiliation is far less important in college basketball than it is for college football. Memphis and Bulter, along with others have proven this time and again.

Gonzaga being on the west coast is a huge advantage for them over a school like XU for example. Gonzaga has gotten plenty of attention and great seeds out of the WCC. They don't need the BE like a team like XU does.

I want to stay at 10 unless UCONN can be added.

I too would prefer to stay at 10.

I don't know what football has to do with what basketball programs need.

What have Memphis and Butler proven? Memphis has been to only 1 Final 4 (1972) in school history that they didn't cheat to get there. Their other 2 were vacated. Butler had a great run for 2 years, but once they improved their profile, they couldn't get out of the Horizon fast enough. The folks at Butler obviously don't agree with you, moving up to a stronger conference twice.

Since 1991 only 7 schools have made the Final Four out of mid major conferences - 9 if you want to include Louisville in 2005 and Marquette in 2003 when they were both in CUSA although I would think of CUSA as a basketball power conference back in those days. Either way, that's an incredibly small number when there were 100 Final 4 spots to be earned in 25 years. Less than a 10% success rate. The fact that 5 CUSA schools seized the opportunity to jump to the Big East only adds to the evidence that school AD's and presidents see that there is an advantage to being in a high profile power conference.

I fail to see how Gonzaga's membership in the WCC gives them any kind of advantage over Xavier or anyone else. I'm not sure what you mean by "great seeds" nor do I see how membership in the WCC, which hurts their RPI, helps get the seeds they've gotten. During their current run of 17 consecutive tournaments they've gotten a 6-seed or better 7 times. Despite their seeds, they've yet to make a Final 4 and have reached the Elite 8 only twice. Competing in the WCC doesn't prepare them well for tournament competition. No matter how well they schedule OOC, those games are played almost entirely in November-December which does little to help them be prepared in March.

Fonzaga plays almost all their home games in their on-campus 6000 seat arena precisely because they're limited by the WCC competition. If they were offered Big East membership, they'd grab it in a heart beat so they could move their major games to Spokane Veteran's Memorial Coliseum, which holds 12,600, thereby using the same model of on-campus + downtown arena combination as Villanova and St. John's.

[_lh]

They proved that conference affiliation is far less important for college basketball than for college football.

I also did not say the WCC gives Gonzaga an advantage. I said Gonzaga has gotten good seeds while playing in the WCC.

[Bill Marsh]

They proved that conference affiliation is far less important for college basketball than for college football.

So? It's still important.

[_lh]

Of course it is important or every team would go independent.

[stever20]

It's important- but it's not that important.

About Gonzaga not making the final 4 and only making the elite 8 2x- that's partially because they've had only 2 top 2 seeds thru their run. And only 6 top 4 seeds. So by their seeds, they should have made 1 more final 4. That's really it.

Memphis had 2 elite 8's and a sweet 16 that weren't vacated around the final 4 that was. So Memphis absolutely did prove that conferences don't mean as much.

About Conference USA back in 2005 and 2003- they absolutely were not a power conference...
2005- in Ken Pom- they were #9 conference
2003- in Ken Pom- they were #7 conference

There is an advantage in being in a higher profile power conference, but it's not an insurmountable advantage by any stretch.

Also your numbers are off a bit- it's only 24 seasons since 1991. You either have to include UNLV in '91 or it's 24 years(96 final 4 teams). Also would note that your numbers aren't including the 2 vacated teams(Memphis and UMass). That's fine, but then instead of saying only 9 of 100 it would be 9 of 92(there were 4 other final 4 teams that got vacated). If you say you have to include those vacated teams, then it's 11 of 96.

[MUBoxer]

It's important- but it's not that important.

About Gonzaga not making the final 4 and only making the elite 8 2x- that's partially because they've had only 2 top 2 seeds thru their run. And only 6 top 4 seeds. So by their seeds, they should have made 1 more final 4. That's really it.

Memphis had 2 elite 8's and a sweet 16 that weren't vacated around the final 4 that was. So Memphis absolutely did prove that conferences don't mean as much.

About Conference USA back in 2005 and 2003- they absolutely were not a power conference...
2005- in Ken Pom- they were #9 conference
2003- in Ken Pom- they were #7 conference

There is an advantage in being in a higher profile power conference, but it's not an insurmountable advantage by any stretch.

Also your numbers are off a bit- it's only 24 seasons since 1991. You either have to include UNLV in '91 or it's 24 years(96 final 4 teams). Also would note that your numbers aren't including the 2 vacated teams(Memphis and UMass). That's fine, but then instead of saying only 9 of 100 it would be 9 of 92(there were 4 other final 4 teams that got vacated). If you say you have to include those vacated teams, then it's 11 of 96.

11/96 isn't exactly a massive number either...

But CUSA wasn't a mid major just because it wasn't on par with the big 6. Louisville, Marquette, Cinci, Depaul, Memphis, heck even Tulsa was pretty darn good back then.

If anything I'd argue that if you don't consider UConn's title coming from a mid major you can't consider Marquette or Louisville coming from a mid major since they're both from very strong at the top conferences that are certainly better than a standard mid major