Revisionist History - What if Big East had added more teams

[thunderbird]

FF: for all I know you might provide the best analysis on this board, but the minute I see multiple quotes and a rainbow of colors in each and every one of your posts, my eyes gloss over and I skip to the next reply. Getting your point across would likely be much easier if you provided a succinct comment rather than turning every post into a novella.

You're not missing anything. He's incapable of articulating a coherent argument.

He's like the kid who cries because none of the other kids want to play with him. Instead of framing his argument as "The Big East should add Dayton and here is how it benefits them," he purports "wE bElOnG iN dA bIg EaSt 'CaUsE."

Here's how I, someone who in FF's words "didn't go to one of the Big East's better schools," would simply present a case for exclusion:

College athletics is a business first and foremost. Thus, how do we generate $?

1. The TV contract. Our partner, Fox Sports, currently has deals with us, B1G, Pac-12, & newly acquired MWC. In the state of Ohio, they have Ohio State in Columbus (the whole state really) and Xavier in Cincinnati. How does Fox Sports make its $? By selling television subscriptions. Does locking the Dayton market boost their sales enough to justify increasing our payout? Now, how about the St. Louis market? One could argue Illinois has some reach into that market, but that would not only be an expansion for us, but Fox Sports as well (not to mention the Jesuit political advantage). But, does even that bring enough $ value for expansion? That decision is to be made by our partner Fox Sports. However, market size isn't everything. There are national brands in smaller markets that would add $ value (e.g. Notre Dame in South Bend). Dayton is not a national brand. Do national brands air ALL of their OOC home games on local Spectrum News 1 and streaming ESPN+? No.

2. The BE tournament. In 2019, we sold out 4 of 5 sessions and filled MSG to 99.7% capacity. On top of that, we just added UConn (back) to the conference. We don't need help with attendance at the tournament. However, as GW11 pointed out, adding a 12th member would provide a 6th session and generate some more revenue, but also adds another cut of the pie. Adding a member for this reason alone would be a net negative.

3. The NCAA tournament. Would the program consistently produce another bid for the conference (e.g. Gonzaga)? Dayton didn't start consistently making the tournament again until Xavier, Butler, Temple, & Charlotte left in 2013. Twenty years prior to that? 4 bids. What would happen with the competition raised in the BE? How about when they lost their head coach in 2017? Then had an overall losing record as well as a conference losing record... in the A10. What happens when the next coach leaves? What happens next year with 3 starters gone? That unknown doesn't scream "consistent" to me.

As Gumby mentions, the only other programs the BE should've ever considered adding (for $ value) back then and now is/was: UConn, ND, & Gonzaga.

The reason why we'll be staying an 11-member league is not because of the round-robin; it's because no other available program adds more $$ value.

[Xudash]

Anyone who tries to defend X as a better academic institution than Dayton loses credibility right away. Muddy does take it overboard on every message board but you (or whichever X poster it was) threw the bait out

Weren't you the guy that didn't know that Creighton is located in Omaha?

And I didn't throw any bait out. I made one glib post on Page 1, suggested that the thread was lockable on Page 2, and dove back when the "national brand" drivel was posted.

[sju88grad]

FF: for all I know you might provide the best analysis on this board, but the minute I see multiple quotes and a rainbow of colors in each and every one of your posts, my eyes gloss over and I skip to the next reply. Getting your point across would likely be much easier if you provided a succinct comment rather than turning every post into a novella.

AMEN!!!.....I feel the same way....

And stop with the postings about the academic reputations of the schools......you can find dozens and dozens of ranking services that can fit whatever narrative you are trying to promote.....for example, St. John's is a Vincentian University.....the entire mission of the school is "to provide excellent education for all people, especially those lacking economic, physical, or social advantages".......many students at SJU are first-generation college kids and many don't come from privileged backgrounds......

To me, a better measure of a University's success?......this....

https://www.stjohns.edu/about/news/2018 ... ecognition

[MUBoxer]

FF: for all I know you might provide the best analysis on this board, but the minute I see multiple quotes and a rainbow of colors in each and every one of your posts, my eyes gloss over and I skip to the next reply. Getting your point across would likely be much easier if you provided a succinct comment rather than turning every post into a novella.

AMEN!!!.....I feel the same way....

And stop with the postings about the academic reputations of the schools......you can find dozens and dozens of ranking services that can fit whatever narrative you are trying to promote.....for example, St. John's is a Vincentian University.....the entire mission of the school is "to provide excellent education for all people, especially those lacking economic, physical, or social advantages".......many students at SJU are first-generation college kids and many don't come from privileged backgrounds......

To me, a better measure of a University's success?......this....

https://www.stjohns.edu/about/news/2018 ... ecognition

Nah The best judge of university success is the 2010 and 2011 playboys top party schools.

https://marquettewire.org/3769922/tribu ... y-playboy/

[sju88grad]

FF: for all I know you might provide the best analysis on this board, but the minute I see multiple quotes and a rainbow of colors in each and every one of your posts, my eyes gloss over and I skip to the next reply. Getting your point across would likely be much easier if you provided a succinct comment rather than turning every post into a novella.

AMEN!!!.....I feel the same way....

And stop with the postings about the academic reputations of the schools......you can find dozens and dozens of ranking services that can fit whatever narrative you are trying to promote.....for example, St. John's is a Vincentian University.....the entire mission of the school is "to provide excellent education for all people, especially those lacking economic, physical, or social advantages".......many students at SJU are first-generation college kids and many don't come from privileged backgrounds......

To me, a better measure of a University's success?......this....

https://www.stjohns.edu/about/news/2018 ... ecognition

Nah The best judge of university success is the 2010 and 2011 playboys top party schools.

https://marquettewire.org/3769922/tribu ... y-playboy/

DAMMIT!!!....I knew I should have gone to Marquette!!!

[shipwreck]

I have been a fan of the big east since its inception. Like all of us, that follow the league closely, I have a well-deserved pride in its accomplishments and its ability to adapt. Therefore, I thought I would just add a few comments and observations:

League size: as a business person, I have always adhered to the belief that to maintain the status quo was the equivalent of moving backwards. Therefore, I believe that the Uconn addition was a very wise decision and that the addition of a 12th member would be equally advantageous. After all, wouldn’t it make sense to have a BE tournament schedule that has 4 games on Wed instead of 3? I’m confident that MSG would look favorably on the additional game and…. let’s face it, the ability to keep the MSG venue is paramount to the league. I know our contract was recently extended but that is one thing the league should never become complacent about!

Round Robin: this is looked upon, by many fans, as highly desirable but is it really as great as some suggest? I for one, would enjoy a little more diversity. Round robins could still be maintained with most of the league members (or divisional members within the league) but a rotating schedule based on program strength could also be worked out. I fear that adherence to the current format could negatively influence future beneficial decisions.

Territoriality: This is one of the more foolish arguments I have heard. To suggest that a given state already has a BE team and therefore none should be added is absurd. Should we breakup the ACC since four schools originate from NC? Should Purdue and Michigan be forced out of the Big 10? Of Course not! After all, DePaul and Marquette are only 54 miles apart, SHP and SJ are separated by only 39 miles and PC and Uconn by 49 mi.

New Members: There are several interesting candidates – VCU, Dayton, SLU, Wichita. While Gonzaga would be the best program, they are simply geographically undesirable. Therefore, let’s look at the others. I only have first hand experience with VCU and Dayton so I will focus on them. I can tell you that the fan base of both are outstanding. They are passionate and travel! But of the two, I would favor Dayton. They have a large state-of-the-art arena (the NCAA obviously thinks so) and like many of the existing members are truly a basketball school/town. The regional aspect of competing with X (when they were both in the A10 and MCC they had a tremendous rivalry) and Butler would be intriguing. Some have suggested that their existing resume is not quite strong enough (debatable) but there is little doubt that if they, or any of the others, were members the level of their programs would rise as we all know the recruiting becomes that much easier. Lastly, as a private catholic school they align well with nine of the existing members.

Again, just a few thoughts and observations.

[Hoopfan]

Anyone who tries to defend X as a better academic institution than Dayton loses credibility right away. Muddy does take it overboard on every message board but you (or whichever X poster it was) threw the bait out

Weren't you the guy that didn't know that Creighton is located in Omaha?

And I didn't throw any bait out. I made one glib post on Page 1, suggested that the thread was lockable on Page 2, and dove back when the "national brand" drivel was posted.

Thanks for remembering me, but why would I ever have a reason to know Creighton is located in Omaha before they joined the BE?

[Hall2012]

If expansion were to happen, Iona just jumped to #2 on my wish list

[LMS]

Feels like these threads are propagated by Dayton folks all the time. God, drop it already.

[billyjack]

If expansion were to happen, Iona just jumped to #2 on my wish list

Lol, funny, i thought the same thing. Too bad he didn't take a job in Boston, then it would be perfect.