Conference Realignment Thread v. 2016

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

UD's financial numbers are relevant and mostly come from people in and around Dayton.

You are correct with your first statement, but seriously wrong with your second statement.

2015-16 Enrolment

10,920 - University of Dayton
6,538 - Xavier University

Dayton has more than 1½ times as many students as Xavier, and has more than 1½ of the number of alumni than Xavier. The vast majority of the University of Dayton alumni live outside of Dayton, and most Dayton alumni are serious basketball fans - including me. We travel to Madison Square Gardens, Barclay Center, Chicago, Los Angeles, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Orlando, (and anywhere else you can name) in the thousands - and in much greater numbers than our opponents' fans. And we’re not just coming from Dayton:

University of Dayton Alumni Chapters

Atlanta • Austin • Boston • Charlotte • Chicago • Cincinnati • Cleveland • Columbus • Dallas / Ft. Worth • Dayton • Denver • Detroit • Houston • Indianapolis • Los Angeles • Louisville • Miami • Milwaukee • Nashville • New York / New Jersey • Northwest Ohio • Orange County, CA • Philadelphia • Phoenix • Pittsburgh • Puerto Rico • Raleigh / Durham • Rochester • San Diego • San Francisco • Seattle • St. Louis • Tampa Bay • Washington DC / Baltimore • Western Michigan

In 2015-16, all 33 of Dayton's home and away games were televised, most of which were on major TV networks. All of these games were watched by tens of thousands of Dayton Flyers fans.

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Xavier fans: Please stop the 'Dayton-bashing'. This thread is entitled 'Conference realignment thread v. 2016'. May we please go back to its topic ?

[X-man]

UD's arena may be valuable to UD, but it remains a DUMP. Horrible sightlines from the upper seats, plus miserable and delusional sweater-vested fans. Worst of all, it's in Dayton. Enough said.

[Omaha1]

Why are Flyers fans even having this discussion here? I'm not posting on a UD or A10 board about the Big East for a reason and I would encourage they take this discussion elsewhere.

[UD Flyer Fanatic]

Why are Flyers fans even having this discussion here? I'm not posting on a UD or A10 board about the Big East for a reason and I would encourage they take this discussion elsewhere.

That's a fair point. My thinking is if a thread discusses: BE expansion, conference realignment or the occasional UD/BE team game matchup then non-BE member comments are fair as long as we are respectful. If any of the BE members on this board feel different just advise- I never stay where I am unwelcome.

[Gopher+RamFan]

I wouldn't call the Big East AGM "secretive". It was a private meeting.

Fair point. "unpublicized" would have been a better word choice on my part.

All their members were there and were under no obligation to discuss League Business with anyone other than among themselves. If you had a meeting and were developing strategy for your business, why would you want to share it with the world when you didn't have to?

I wouldn’t. The Presidents and Athletic Directors of the Big East (and Ivy League) have the luxury of complete autonomy in deciding among themselves what information they want (and do not want) in the public domain. It is an enviable luxury which will not be given away without all due consideration.

The idea that a FOI request would stop us from adding UConn is absurd. So the press can get our bylaws, and our meeting minutes. Who cares?

The Presidents and Athletic Directors of the Big East schools. By statute, UConn is required to disclose far more information than just its bylaws and meeting minutes. And the goalposts are getting moved every year, with more and more disclosure being required by the State of Connecticut legislature.

UConn Foundation Says 'Transparency' Bills Would Chill Donors – Harford Courant – February 26, 2016

Representatives of the University of Connecticut Foundation made an impassioned argument at a legislative hearing Thursday that any law forcing them to open their records to the public — even if donors' name are excluded — would impede their efforts to raise money.

Daniel Toscano, a member of the foundation board and a donor, said the legislation under consideration, which would make the foundation subject to the state Freedom of Information Act, "will most definitely have a chilling effect on the philanthropy that is essential to building and maintaining a top-notch flagship university."

"As someone who has given significantly to UConn for more than a decade, I can attest to the fact that treating the foundation like a state agency will deter people like me from giving. Even if that is not your intention, I can assure you that it will be perceived very negatively by the very people you want and need to support this great institution."

Bill Would Require UConn Foundation to Reveal Donor Names – Connecticut Journal-Inquirer - April 23, 2016

A bill that would require more public disclosure from the University of Connecticut Foundation awaits action by the House after clearing the Senate earlier this week. The Senate approved the bill 27-8, but not before amending the proposal to remove the Connecticut State College and University system from having to comply.

If approved, the bill would require the UConn Foundation, the school’s nonprofit fundraising arm, to undergo a second audit and release the final report, and to disclose the name of everyone who donates beginning July 1, 2017.

No one can say with any certainty what additional information UConn will be required to publicly disclose in the future.

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UConn is worth 100 times more to the Big East than Dayton or any other candidate.

Ryan Brewer disagrees.

Interesting Wall Street Journal article on the value of college basketball teams ... How Much Is Your College Basketball Team Worth?

Brewer studied 175 of Division I’s 351 teams, accounting for those in major conferences and others that have made the tournament in recent years. Brewer analyzed each program’s revenues and expenses and made cash-flow adjustments, risk assessments and growth projections to calculate what a college team would be worth on the open market, if it could be bought and sold like a professional franchise.


11 – Connecticut ($ 137,900,000)
24 – Dayton ($ 80,600,000)
26 – Xavier ($ 78,100,000)
35 – Marquette ($ 59,600,000)
37 – St. John’s ($ 55,000,000)
51 – DePaul ($ 42,900,000)
52 – Georgetown($ 42,200,000)
54 – Villanova ($ 40,400,000)
73 – Providence ($ 29,700,000)
78 – Creighton ($ 28,100,000)
79 – Seton Hall ($ 27,700,000)
93 – Butler ($ 20,200,000)
96 – Saint Louis ($ 18,600,000)

Don't even point out VCU at #40.

The only value that matters to the BE is what matters to the networks. Have no idea what Daytons media rights deal is, but VCU signed a $2 million/yr media deal - on par with Georgetown. At least it's a measurable and real metric to judge by.

[DudeAnon]

Don't even point out VCU at #40.

The only value that matters to the BE is what matters to the networks. Have no idea what Daytons media rights deal is, but VCU signed a $2 million/yr media deal - on par with Georgetown. At least it's a measurable and real metric to judge by.

UD fans. Act more like VCU fans. Be cool.

[adoraz]

So is the general consensus that Dayton has high revenue numbers because they own their own arena and play all their home games there? And that the numbers don't mean anything to the Big East?

Personally my expansion candidates would be UConn (if they drop FBS football), VCU, Gonzaga, Dayton. In that order, but I'd only want 2 teams. I don't think there's any rush to expand but things change quickly. This past season was very successful, but a lot went right. We had Nova vs Seton Hall for instance in the Big East finals which caused a sellout. What if during the next couple years, when ACC and B1G move into town, we have teams that don't sell out the later rounds? Alumni bases of Dayton, UConn and VCU for instance would help that issue. A lot of people are concerned with TV figures but performance and selling out the Garden are very important as well.

[sheg]

So is the general consensus that Dayton has high revenue numbers because they own their own arena and play all their home games there? And that the numbers don't mean anything to the Big East?

I don't know what the methodology for determining net worth of the programs is. However, revenue has zero to do with who owns the venue. Revenue obviously equals (tickets x face value) + concession and parking revenue + tournament credits + media rights + miscellaneous. While attendance is easy to quantify, I can't imagine that things like concession revenue, parking revenue, seat licenses, donations, third tier media rights, shoe deals, licensing, and other ancillary streams are easy to quantify, especially from a private school.

As far "the numbers don't mean anything to the Big East?" probably not, other than "this program is financially sound." In other words, it's not a reason for inclusion - but it would be a reason for exclusion if a program was struggling financially.

If Dayton is ever invited to the Big East, it won't be because it makes pretty good revenue.

This particular UD poster has all the markings of a guy that used to go by the handle of Muddy Waters. A lot of links and quotes, etc., in his posts. He hates Xavier, and he's operating on low, flickering wattage.

Then someone who links and quotes his way to a solid Muddy Waters impersonation goes off about UD's financial valuation.

Bbbbbbbbut Muddy Waters was banned from this forum. For him to create a new account would be wrong and against the T&C! It couldn't possibly be him!!!!111!!OMG!!11!!

[Xudash]

UD's financial numbers are relevant and mostly come from people in and around Dayton.

You are correct with your first statement, but seriously wrong with your second statement.

2015-16 Enrolment

10,920 - University of Dayton
6,538 - Xavier University

Dayton has more than 1½ times as many students as Xavier, and has more than 1½ of the number of alumni than Xavier. The vast majority of the University of Dayton alumni live outside of Dayton, and most Dayton alumni are serious basketball fans - including me. We travel to Madison Square Gardens, Barclay Center, Chicago, Los Angeles, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Orlando, (and anywhere else you can name) in the thousands - and in much greater numbers than our opponents' fans. And we’re not just coming from Dayton:

University of Dayton Alumni Chapters

Atlanta • Austin • Boston • Charlotte • Chicago • Cincinnati • Cleveland • Columbus • Dallas / Ft. Worth • Dayton • Denver • Detroit • Houston • Indianapolis • Los Angeles • Louisville • Miami • Milwaukee • Nashville • New York / New Jersey • Northwest Ohio • Orange County, CA • Philadelphia • Phoenix • Pittsburgh • Puerto Rico • Raleigh / Durham • Rochester • San Diego • San Francisco • Seattle • St. Louis • Tampa Bay • Washington DC / Baltimore • Western Michigan

In 2015-16, all 33 of Dayton's home and away games were televised, most of which were on major TV networks. All of these games were watched by tens of thousands of Dayton Flyers fans.

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Xavier fans: Please stop the 'Dayton-bashing'. This thread is entitled 'Conference realignment thread v. 2016'. May we please go back to its topic ?

Muddy, I actually misrepresented my point: UD's financial figures are relevant to UD fans; they aren't relevant, per se.

You otherwise took my point about the Dayton fan base too literally. Most of UD's revenue comes from attendance at the Dump. UD doesn't receive over $4 million a year through a media deal.

You are embarrassing yourself and you continue to make UD look stupid here with all your links and charts. It's like the old Warner Brothers cartoon with Spike and Chester. Obviously, UD plays the role of Chester.

And you don't get to request that Xavier fans stop bashing UD. You're the foreigner here and you open yourself up to bashing.

[adoraz]

So is the general consensus that Dayton has high revenue numbers because they own their own arena and play all their home games there? And that the numbers don't mean anything to the Big East?

I don't know what the methodology for determining net worth of the programs is. However, revenue has zero to do with who owns the venue. Revenue obviously equals (tickets x face value) + concession and parking revenue + tournament credits + media rights + miscellaneous. While attendance is easy to quantify, I can't imagine that things like concession revenue, parking revenue, seat licenses, donations, third tier media rights, shoe deals, licensing, and other ancillary streams are easy to quantify, especially from a private school.

As far "the numbers don't mean anything to the Big East?" probably not, other than "this program is financially sound." In other words, it's not a reason for inclusion - but it would be a reason for exclusion if a program was struggling financially.

If Dayton is ever invited to the Big East, it won't be because it makes pretty good revenue.

How does revenue have zero to do with who owns the venue? If all Dayton games are hosted at their own stadium, then they get all the revenue. Nearly all Big East schools play at NBA arenas for many games and need to split that revenue with the venue.

I'm not arguing for or against Dayton here. I'm just trying to figure out how their team value is so high.