1/6/15 Big East Games

[jckund]

Big road win for PC shaking up the lineup. Lots of concerns too but I think most teams are in that boat.

8500 and change at MSG for nova SJU seems like a weak draw. Lavin should be fired if this tailspin continues.

Actually, it was a really strong crowd. 90-95% full in the lower bowl, lots of noise and energy. MSG only opened up a few rows in the upper section, hence the lower number. For a Tuesday at 9pm? I'd say it was good.

[hoyahooligan]

Made the trip up to MSG. SJU must drive their fans nuts. 1-6 they have as much talent as anyone but I don't think they are mentally tough or smart. Harrison is a killer. Can score at will; such a terrific player. But when the game got physical and a little chippy SJU just lost their composure completely. They seemed affected by every whistle and more concerned with talking to the Nova players and the refs, then bearing down and playing tough SJU ball. If they had more discipline they'd be so much better. I blame Lavin, not the collection of talent he has brought in.

SJU is not afraid of being physical at all. This is the same team that threw punches at a top 25 Notre Dame team a few years back (we beat them once too). This is the same team that got in scuffles with Cuse when we beat them this year. Harrison is always being knocked down or shoved. Obekpa is not afraid of anyone. Pointer isn't either. So I don't get the "losing composure" when things get physical part. This team thrives on that stuff IMO.

The score is extremely deceiving, because this was a fantastic game up until SJU just ran out of gas with no bench and the out rebounding due to the massive size/depth advantage Nova had. Rysheed Jordan is one of the biggest busts in recent memory and probably up there in SJU history. Lavin literally forgot how to recruit for 2 years now, and this is what happens.

Lavin needs to go. Like now. He will never win anything here. Forget a national championship. Forget a Big East championship. Forget a deep run in the tourney. It seems impossible to even MAKE the tourney with him as coach. Hell, even in the NIT we can't win. With a full team out there and 2 good recruiting years, we would have taken it right down to the wire with Nova. But because he is a terrible coach he put us in a terrible position. 0-5 to start last year 0-3 to start this year. This team might be close to .500 overall after the Duke game. And to think we were just top 15. I hate wasting my time and money on a program coached by Lavin. His time is over.

I disagree hooper and agree with Gumby. St.John's doesn't handle being physical well at all. It's not that they shy away from it. It's that it distracts them and they're more concerned about the physical play once it starts than they are about playing good basketball. They get taken out of the game by physical play because they're more interested in showing how tough they are. They try and be physical back instead of trying to just play basketball.

Score was not deceiving yes St. John's kept it close for a while, and yes the result was mainly for the reason you state, but that's not deceiving. Lack of depth and lack of height are parts of the game. When a score is deceiving is when it's a close game down the stretch and you have to start fouling, and the team makes all their free throws and you miss all your 3s to get back in the game and the lead goes from 5 to a blow out. That would be a deceiving score. Keeping it close for 2/3rds of the game and then getting beat by a bigger, deeper, and clearly better team is not a deceiving score. When Nova is on their game they're very very good. The only reason they're not undefeated is they played a stinker vs. a good team. When they play they're best they're not going to lose.

[RedStormHoops]

The depth is so much worse than you make it sound Hoya. We have one natural big man. 1. Foul trouble for him? We lose. Automatically. We lost this game in the 1st 30 seconds when I realized the refs called a ticky tack foul on obekpa and that was going to be the norm all night.

We outplayed nova for 28 minutes. Lead 52-50 at the 12 minute mark. And ran out of gas. It wasn't physicality, it was Dangelo Harrison trying to guard ochefu down low because he was the tallest player we had left. It was rysheed Jordan playing like he left his game back home. It was Dom pointer and obekpa both fouling out when the deficit was still not large. Lack of depth may be a part of the game, but SJU is the worst case I've ever seen of it.

I need optimism, so I keep looking at the providence team from last year. But they had batts, Derosiers, Tyler Harris, and henton who all play big for them. They are all big players. St. John's has obekpa, a smaller pointer, and that is it. Dangelo Harrison was stuck guarding a 7 footer in the Gonzaga game earlier this year when obekpa fouled out, and it happened again last night.

It all falls on Hollywood Steve.


I agree that nova is good too. You watch the SJU first half against nova last night and you know depth is the only thing holding this team back from being dominant

[cu blujs]

I think they'll win some games simply because they work too hard not to, but they might be the least talented team in this league, and this is something that must be addressed starting this offseason for Coach Holtmann.

I think the team in Omaha will give you a run for least talented. The Jays are clearly the worst shooting team in this league right now, and I don't think it is even close.

[dmac80]

Big road win for PC shaking up the lineup. Lots of concerns too but I think most teams are in that boat.

8500 and change at MSG for nova SJU seems like a weak draw. Lavin should be fired if this tailspin continues.

Actually, it was a really strong crowd. 90-95% full in the lower bowl, lots of noise and energy. MSG only opened up a few rows in the upper section, hence the lower number. For a Tuesday at 9pm? I'd say it was good.

ok. maybe it was the decision not to open the upper tier. It's just that little tiny providence is likely to draw 12-12,500 for Villanova and it seems that in NYC, at MSG, a ranked St John's team and with the game in reasonable proximity to highly ranked Nova should be able to do better than 8500. I do agree the late start is a killer. I was thinking/hoping 15k anyway.

[ivet]

The depth is so much worse than you make it sound Hoya. We have one natural big man. 1. Foul trouble for him? We lose. Automatically. We lost this game in the 1st 30 seconds when I realized the refs called a ticky tack foul on obekpa and that was going to be the norm all night.

Last night was the first time I watched St. Johns in action this season and you are spot on. Coaches in the BE already realized your lack of depth and the best way to take you guys out of your game is simply to attack the basket early on. Obekpa loves to challenge and if you start getting him in foul trouble early, he will play a lot more reserved throughout the rest of the game. The same can be said for the rest of the team, though they are very athletic, I noticed a lot of them need some time to rest. They are pretty exhausted by the 7 minute mark especially with the type of up-tempo system that Lavin likes to use.

[FlyJays]

I think they'll win some games simply because they work too hard not to, but they might be the least talented team in this league, and this is something that must be addressed starting this offseason for Coach Holtmann.

I think the team in Omaha will give you a run for least talented. The Jays are clearly the worst shooting team in this league right now, and I don't think it is even close.

Yep. I wasn't ready to say so before the season started, because I expected Brooks and Artino to improve over last season. But now, 15 games in, it's pretty clear that the Jays probably have the least talented roster in the league. Mac is an excellent coach, and he'll squeeze a few league wins out of these guys, but the current roster is built for the MVC, not the Big East. To me, Chatman is the only legit Big East talent on the roster, and he's best suited as a distributing PG as he was for his first three seasons, not as the leading scorer. Brooks has the athleticism to compete at this level, but he's far too erratic to depend on. Our bigs are a mess. Currently, our best center is a redshirt junior who barely saw the floor his first two seasons due to achilles and foot injuries. He's serviceable, but it's clear he hasn't had many reps. Next year should be a a MAJOR improvement up and down the roster with the addition of Huff, Watson Jr., Patton, Stewart, Harrell etc. I'm not sure there is a single position where we don't dramatically improve.

[Irishdawg]

I think they'll win some games simply because they work too hard not to, but they might be the least talented team in this league, and this is something that must be addressed starting this offseason for Coach Holtmann.

I think the team in Omaha will give you a run for least talented. The Jays are clearly the worst shooting team in this league right now, and I don't think it is even close.

Kind of an odd thing to be arguing about, but so far Butler and Creighton are the worst two shooting teams in the league, at least in conference-only games. Butler is currently shooting 38.5% from 2, and Creighton is at 21.7% from 3. Butler's EFG% is 44.1%, while Creighton's is 38.1%. The good news for Creighton's offense is that they're solid at getting to the foul line, and very good at converting from there at 79.1% Butler's FT% is at 68.8%, and that's actually an improvement from where they've been at. So, from the field, Creighton has been worse, but when you include free throws, it's a much tighter race.

Words of advice if this keeps up for our January 21st and February 16th matchups. Drink heavily.

[GumbyDamnit!]

SJU is not afraid of being physical at all. This is the same team that threw punches at a top 25 Notre Dame team a few years back (we beat them once too). This is the same team that got in scuffles with Cuse when we beat them this year. Harrison is always being knocked down or shoved. Obekpa is not afraid of anyone. Pointer isn't either. So I don't get the "losing composure" when things get physical part. This team thrives on that stuff IMO.

The score is extremely deceiving, because this was a fantastic game up until SJU just ran out of gas with no bench and the out rebounding due to the massive size/depth advantage Nova .

You make a good point about depth. Clearly it was a significant factor last night.

I'm not sure if you were at the game or if the broadcast caught all the side circus stuff that seemed to lead to SJU unraveling. DH was talking crap to anyone who would listen: refs, Nova players, fans, Gus and Raf when he was backpeddeling on D, etc. Every shot missed he was fouled, every shot made he declared himself unstoppable, every whistle against he had complaints about. Every possession, every play. I get that is part of who he is as a player and perhaps it is his way to motivate himself. He is clearly very good. But that "intensity" seemed to rub off on other players--most notably Obekpa and Pointer--negatively. During one timeout Obekpa had to be restrained because he wanted to go confront someone on the Nova bench; Pointer started pushing Nova guys as they tried to huddle up in the lane. Nova had no problem matching the physicality but their demeanor was soooo much different. They remained focused on executing and SJU reverted to street ball. When Nova pushed it up to a 7 pt game with about 7 mins to play I remember an exchange where Pointer and DH were jawing at 2 Nova players who remained expressionless and focused and I commented to the guy next to me that "this game is over" as I could see close up (6th row across from SJU bench) that SJU was spending way to much energy on trying to prove that they were the tougher team. They absolutely collapsed from that point on.

[NJRedman]

SJU is not afraid of being physical at all. This is the same team that threw punches at a top 25 Notre Dame team a few years back (we beat them once too). This is the same team that got in scuffles with Cuse when we beat them this year. Harrison is always being knocked down or shoved. Obekpa is not afraid of anyone. Pointer isn't either. So I don't get the "losing composure" when things get physical part. This team thrives on that stuff IMO.

The score is extremely deceiving, because this was a fantastic game up until SJU just ran out of gas with no bench and the out rebounding due to the massive size/depth advantage Nova .

You make a good point about depth. Clearly it was a significant factor last night.

I'm not sure if you were at the game or if the broadcast caught all the side circus stuff that seemed to lead to SJU unraveling. DH was talking crap to anyone who would listen: refs, Nova players, fans, Gus and Raf when he was backpeddeling on D, etc. Every shot missed he was fouled, every shot made he declared himself unstoppable, every whistle against he had complaints about. Every possession, every play. I get that is part of who he is as a player and perhaps it is his way to motivate himself. He is clearly very good. But that "intensity" seemed to rub off on other players--most notably Obekpa and Pointer--negatively. During one timeout Obekpa had to be restrained because he wanted to go confront someone on the Nova bench; Pointer started pushing Nova guys as they tried to huddle up in the lane. Nova had no problem matching the physicality but their demeanor was soooo much different. They remained focused on executing and SJU reverted to street ball. When Nova pushed it up to a 7 pt game with about 7 mins to play I remember an exchange where Pointer and DH were jawing at 2 Nova players who remained expressionless and focused and I commented to the guy next to me that "this game is over" as I could see close up (6th row across from SJU bench) that SJU was spending way to much energy on trying to prove that they were the tougher team. They absolutely collapsed from that point on.

Thats cause the Nova players know they could knock down the SJU players and no calls would be made while the SJU players were getting hit up for touch fouls. The game was called in two very distinctive ways. Hell Harrison probably has three stitches in his lip right now on a play where they called no foul! Nova was being physical and being rewarded for it while SJU was being penalized for it.