Jeff Goodman Says Big East is Overrated

[RedStormHoops]

I don't wanna get too off topic, but as a St. John's fan, we were terrible from 2002-2009. Never did I want them to lay down for teams for the benefit of the conference as a whole. Never. You play to win. I guess poor nova, Creighton, and Xavier fans don't get that cause they actually make the tournament all the time, but when you are having down years, like DePaul is having now and St. John's is gonna have next year, you still wanna see your team come out and win games they can.

[DudeAnon]

We don't have the elite brand names, but 9/10 teams in this conference could compete in any of the F5 conferences. Maybe we wouldn't be the power programs in each conference, but we sure as hell would be the upper half. People need to realize that the F5 conferences are more than just their standout programs. SEC is more than Florida and UK. PAC12 is more than Arizona and UCLA. Top to bottom, we have probably the 3rd strongest conference after B12 and ACC.

Recipe for getting respect: 5 teams in tourney, 2-3 to sweet 16, 1 in Final Four. That happens, everyone shuts up. And I definitely think its possible. CBB is not the lopsided landscape people make it out to be. UCONN was no where near the most talented team in the country last year but they got hot when it mattered.

[Bill Marsh]

We don't have the elite brand names, but 9/10 teams in this conference could compete in any of the F5 conferences. Maybe we wouldn't be the power programs in each conference, but we sure as hell would be the upper half. People need to realize that the F5 conferences are more than just their standout programs. SEC is more than Florida and UK. PAC12 is more than Arizona and UCLA. Top to bottom, we have probably the 3rd strongest conference after B12 and ACC.

Recipe for getting respect: 5 teams in tourney, 2-3 to sweet 16, 1 in Final Four. That happens, everyone shuts up. And I definitely think its possible. CBB is not the lopsided landscape people make it out to be. UCONN was no where near the most talented team in the country last year but they got hot when it mattered.

Agree . . .

Except that the Big Wast is the 2nd strongest conference. While the ACC has Duke, Virginia, North Carolina, Louisville, and Notre dame this year, they also have

RPI - TEAM
136 - Boston College
146 - Clemson
171 - Wake Forest
181 - Florida State
249 - Virginia Tech

DePaul is the only BE team with a current RPI ranked as low as any of these 5, who represent a third of the teams in the ACC. And even DePaul isn't as bad as VA Tech.

[stever20]

We don't have the elite brand names, but 9/10 teams in this conference could compete in any of the F5 conferences. Maybe we wouldn't be the power programs in each conference, but we sure as hell would be the upper half. People need to realize that the F5 conferences are more than just their standout programs. SEC is more than Florida and UK. PAC12 is more than Arizona and UCLA. Top to bottom, we have probably the 3rd strongest conference after B12 and ACC.

Recipe for getting respect: 5 teams in tourney, 2-3 to sweet 16, 1 in Final Four. That happens, everyone shuts up. And I definitely think its possible. CBB is not the lopsided landscape people make it out to be. UCONN was no where near the most talented team in the country last year but they got hot when it mattered.

Agree . . .

Except that the Big Wast is the 2nd strongest conference. While the ACC has Duke, Virginia, North Carolina, Louisville, and Notre dame this year, they also have

RPI - TEAM
136 - Boston College
146 - Clemson
171 - Wake Forest
181 - Florida State
249 - Virginia Tech

DePaul is the only BE team with a current RPI ranked as low as any of these 5, who represent a third of the teams in the ACC. And even DePaul isn't as bad as VA Tech.

Except a conference really isn't measured at all based on the bottom of the conference. It's measured as what is on the top of the conference. I mean, do you think the Big 12 was ravaged because TCU was so bad last year? No chance. They got 70% of the conference in the tourney.

[dmac80]

We don't have the elite brand names, but 9/10 teams in this conference could compete in any of the F5 conferences. Maybe we wouldn't be the power programs in each conference, but we sure as hell would be the upper half. People need to realize that the F5 conferences are more than just their standout programs. SEC is more than Florida and UK. PAC12 is more than Arizona and UCLA. Top to bottom, we have probably the 3rd strongest conference after B12 and ACC.

Recipe for getting respect: 5 teams in tourney, 2-3 to sweet 16, 1 in Final Four. That happens, everyone shuts up. And I definitely think its possible. CBB is not the lopsided landscape people make it out to be. UCONN was no where near the most talented team in the country last year but they got hot when it mattered.

I agree. We need to get 1 team into the final 4 and a NC would do wonders. The Elite programs are in the final 4 and win NCs. The cream of the crop of the BE brand wise haven't won the NC since the 80s, if any of the programs that have won already do it again they'll elevate. Louisville hadn't won since the 80s and look what that title did for them a couple years ago...

Even when the Big East was getting 8,9,10,11 teams into the dance the league was lucky to see 2-3 make the elite 8 and maybe 1 made the final 4. It is hard to do.

I also think some of the non elite but very strong basketball programs (Wisconsin or Michigan as an example) that play big time football benefit in their brand.

Lastly, and this is a biggie, the Big East schools are tiny! DePaul is BY far our biggest with 16k+ undergrads, AFter that the drop off is pretty big and the smallest Providence has ~3800 undergrads........The top level football playing schools with big national brands also have tens of thousands of undergrads and hundreds of thousands of alumni. With all that said it is amazing how we compete and also how strong we draw what we do for attendance compared to them.

[Bill Marsh]

We don't have the elite brand names, but 9/10 teams in this conference could compete in any of the F5 conferences. Maybe we wouldn't be the power programs in each conference, but we sure as hell would be the upper half. People need to realize that the F5 conferences are more than just their standout programs. SEC is more than Florida and UK. PAC12 is more than Arizona and UCLA. Top to bottom, we have probably the 3rd strongest conference after B12 and ACC.

Recipe for getting respect: 5 teams in tourney, 2-3 to sweet 16, 1 in Final Four. That happens, everyone shuts up. And I definitely think its possible. CBB is not the lopsided landscape people make it out to be. UCONN was no where near the most talented team in the country last year but they got hot when it mattered.

I agree. We need to get 1 team into the final 4 and a NC would do wonders. The Elite programs are in the final 4 and win NCs. The cream of the crop of the BE brand wise haven't won the NC since the 80s, if any of the programs that have won already do it again they'll elevate. Louisville hadn't won since the 80s and look what that title did for them a couple years ago...

Even when the Big East was getting 8,9,10,11 teams into the dance the league was lucky to see 2-3 make the elite 8 and maybe 1 made the final 4. It is hard to do.

I also think some of the non elite but very strong basketball programs (Wisconsin or Michigan as an example) that play big time football benefit in their brand.

I agree that football helps the brand, but unfairly so. For all the complaints about the Big East not having done much since the 1980s, what have the following P5 conferences done?

BIG EAST - 0 NC since the 1980s, 4 FF in the past 8 years

Big 10 - 1 NC since the 1980s, 6 FF in the past 8 years
Big 12 - 1 NC since the 1980s, 3 FF in the past 8 years
PAC-12 - 2 NC since the 1970s, 2 FF in the past 8 years

[MackNova]

The league needs 2 teams to step up in the tournament, including Villanova which needs to validate its regular season success.

The problem this league will have going forward is that it's unlikely it will have elite programs. The league is a bunch of bubble-caliber teams, which is both a good thing and a bad thing. Outside of Villanova, you can make a good case why any team in the league can miss the tournament. The league could get 7 bids, but there's a good chance 3 are worse seeds in their 1st-round matchups, and the other 3 would be worse seeds in their 2nd-round matchups.

Plus, it's a perfectly valid opinion to think the Big East isn't a top 3 league. You can't tell me it's worse than 4th though.

[dmac80]

Please do keep in mind that I will take DePaul's history up against any other Big East Team though. That does not help now but....

This is a strong statement. Not to pile on but DePaul had their entire run in the late 80s vacated and thus has been to 4 NCAAs in the last 30 years and has been a disaster since joining the Big East... And I say this fully realizing the 2000s have been pretty tough for PC as well until last year. You've inspired me to start a thread on on all 10 BE teams and their history,more to come.

Btw I'm rooting for DePaul to rise and I think the new arena will help. Need a new coach though. Also although I don't want DePaul to win this year it's ludicrous people from other schools are mad that they're trying to win their games.

[hoyahooligan]

Please do keep in mind that I will take DePaul's history up against any other Big East Team though. That does not help now but....

This is a strong statement. Not to pile on but DePaul had their entire run in the late 80s vacated and thus has been to 4 NCAAs in the last 30 years and has been a disaster since joining the Big East... And I say this fully realizing the 2000s have been pretty tough for PC as well until last year. You've inspired me to start a thread on on all 10 BE teams and their history,more to come.

Btw I'm rooting for DePaul to rise and I think the new arena will help. Need a new coach though. Also although I don't want DePaul to win this year it's ludicrous people from other schools are mad that they're trying to win their games.

Yeah um really you'd take DePaul's 2 FFs, 1 Elite 8. When 3 teams in the conference have national championships?

[DemonLS]

I did not say better but I would put up DePaul's history with anyone.

You may want to check your stats. DePaul did very well from the late 70s (1977-78) through 1992. I attended every game during this time.....and even way before that.

Most of you are probably too young to know so I don't fault you.