KenPom Rankings Out

[admin]

As an addendum, I would like to give a shout out to one person on here who, last season, pretty much owned up to what I just said: admin. Total props for having the balls to come out and say, yes it's great that X and CU have done so well, but I'm really pretty disappointed in the efforts of the C7, because I wanted them to represent what we stood for in the BE in a much better manner than they did - teams joining from a lesser league and doing this well shouldn't be possible. That's not in quotes, because I didn't go find the thread where he said it (it's from memory), but I remember reading it and thinking, FINALLY SOMEONE HAS THE STONES TO SAY WHAT A LOT OF THE C7 IS THINKING. So, bravo for that, Admin.

I accept your praise.

[stever20]

that's a great point about teams joining the BE. To have a new team in Creighton come in and finish 14-4(and 11-3 vs the C7). Or Xavier going 10-8(and 7-7 even vs the C7). I think a lot of folks expected the 3 new teams to come in and struggle like what Butler did(though they were 4-10 even vs the C7- 0-4 vs Creighton and Xavier).

it'll be interesting to see how that goes in the future.

[GumbyDamnit!]

My $0.02. Not sure Fly and BillM are really that far off from each other. One thinks 5-7th, the other 7-9th. Looking how the standings were last year and seeing that we still seem to have a lot of parity in the middle of the conference, the error of margin between the two predictions are razor thin anyway. Better to argue if Creighton will win at Butler, Marq or SHU because a win like that against one of those other teams that I expect to finish near them, might be the simple difference between 5th place and 8th place this year.

Now to point #2: Creighton's talent. I saw them twice in person last year (@ Nova and at the BET) and sure McBuckets was just tremendous and Wragge had one of those nights against us that you see once every 10 years--just couldn't miss from anywhere--but the guy I was most impressed with and whom I think is terribly underrated is Chatman. The kid is lightening quick and if anything I think he deferred too much last year. I watched him consistently beat his man, penetrate the lane and then kick out instead of taking his shot or driving to the bucket. Honestly we didn't have anyone who could guard him and I like to think we are a pretty good defensive team with a stable of capable guards.

Lastly I don't think I have ever considered Creighton, Butler or Xavier as 2nd class citizens in this new league. If anything I may have put them above Prov, SHU, SJU and DePaul in the pecking order from the start. Don't get me wrong I loved the oBE and rooted hard for every team team to succeed. But lets be honest, none of those programs have done anything of note for 10+ years (multiple years of winning and tourney wins). Of the C7 I view(ed) G'twn, Nova and Marq as the only relevant programs coming into last season. Each made the tourney consistently and had games vs. each other that meant something. They are/were true rivals. In the past 10 seasons Nova's record vs. the other 4 C7 schools is a combined 40-7 (.851 winning %). That's not much of a rivalry. We need programs that can maintain long term success. Being in a conference where you enjoy the NCAA Tourney credits of other teams without contributing yourself gets old after a decade. I was psyched to see Providence compete hard last year and they seem to be on the right track. SHU had a good recruiting year so maybe they are coming around. DePaul has been DePaul unfortunately. And SJU just always seems to be all promise and no performance. Maybe that changes. But I don't subscribe to them being higher on the pecking order because of past affiliation. 2 out of the 3 came in and produced; Butler had a tough year. But Butler has been far more relevant on the college hoops landscape than most of the C7, so they have nothing to apologize for. And my take is that until SHU, Prov, SJU and DePaul consistently win some tourney games, I will not hold out much hope that they will be better long term conference mates than X, Butler and Creighton.

In all honestly I think the fans of programs that have been towards the bottom of the BE for so long are the ones that rip into the Butlers, Creightons and X's more than the Gtwn, Nova or Marq fans seem to do. Maybe its just basic fan insecurity.

[Westbrook#36]

Yeah, I don't see anything or anyone other a couple of borderline trolling posts that are anything close to disparaging Creighton, almost all of the post that some Jay fans take offense to are nothing more than posters stating the questions that they have of your team this year. Same type of questions were asked about Butler last year, and the same type will be asked of some other team next year, and the year after that. It is what it is. Creighton has more questions about them this year than any other other team not named DePaul. Sorry, in a 10 team league someone's gotta finish towards the bottom.

[SJHooper]

My $0.02. Not sure Fly and BillM are really that far off from each other. One thinks 5-7th, the other 7-9th. Looking how the standings were last year and seeing that we still seem to have a lot of parity in the middle of the conference, the error of margin between the two predictions are razor thin anyway. Better to argue if Creighton will win at Butler, Marq or SHU because a win like that against one of those other teams that I expect to finish near them, might be the simple difference between 5th place and 8th place this year.

Now to point #2: Creighton's talent. I saw them twice in person last year (@ Nova and at the BET) and sure McBuckets was just tremendous and Wragge had one of those nights against us that you see once every 10 years--just couldn't miss from anywhere--but the guy I was most impressed with and whom I think is terribly underrated is Chatman. The kid is lightening quick and if anything I think he deferred too much last year. I watched him consistently beat his man, penetrate the lane and then kick out instead of taking his shot or driving to the bucket. Honestly we didn't have anyone who could guard him and I like to think we are a pretty good defensive team with a stable of capable guards.

Lastly I don't think I have ever considered Creighton, Butler or Xavier as 2nd class citizens in this new league. If anything I may have put them above Prov, SHU, SJU and DePaul in the pecking order from the start. Don't get me wrong I loved the oBE and rooted hard for every team team to succeed. But lets be honest, none of those programs have done anything of note for 10+ years (multiple years of winning and tourney wins). Of the C7 I view(ed) G'twn, Nova and Marq as the only relevant programs coming into last season. Each made the tourney consistently and had games vs. each other that meant something. They are/were true rivals. In the past 10 seasons Nova's record vs. the other 4 C7 schools is a combined 40-7 (.851 winning %). That's not much of a rivalry. We need programs that can maintain long term success. Being in a conference where you enjoy the NCAA Tourney credits of other teams without contributing yourself gets old after a decade. I was psyched to see Providence compete hard last year and they seem to be on the right track. SHU had a good recruiting year so maybe they are coming around. DePaul has been DePaul unfortunately. And SJU just always seems to be all promise and no performance. Maybe that changes. But I don't subscribe to them being higher on the pecking order because of past affiliation. 2 out of the 3 came in and produced; Butler had a tough year. But Butler has been far more relevant on the college hoops landscape than most of the C7, so they have nothing to apologize for. And my take is that until SHU, Prov, SJU and DePaul consistently win some tourney games, I will not hold out much hope that they will be better long term conference mates than X, Butler and Creighton.

In all honestly I think the fans of programs that have been towards the bottom of the BE for so long are the ones that rip into the Butlers, Creightons and X's more than the Gtwn, Nova or Marq fans seem to do. Maybe its just basic fan insecurity.

Oh hail Nova. Ranked top 5 all year and gets smashed by a #13(?) UConn squad getting outed immediately in the tournament. Also outed immediately by the very SHU program he is acting like Nova is above in the BET. Nova is good but was clearly overrated last year. They have work to do. Their ranking was inflated all year due to a few major early wins vs. Kansas and Iowa. They looked very beatable by the end of the year.

[Westbrook#36]

Villanova 29-5 losses to Syracuse, Creighton, Seton Hall, UConn(National Champion)

St. John's 20-13 losses to well, ... too many to list but including Penn St. and one and dones in BET and to Bob Morris in the NIT.

Sorry we all can't strive and maintain the long standing mediocrity that is St. John's.

[Irishdawg]

[GumbyDamnit!]

Oh hail Nova. Ranked top 5 all year and gets smashed by a #13(?) UConn squad getting outed immediately in the tournament. Also outed immediately by the very SHU program he is acting like Nova is above in the BET. Nova is good but was clearly overrated last year. They have work to do. Their ranking was inflated all year due to a few major early wins vs. Kansas and Iowa. They looked very beatable by the end of the year.

Hooper before you get your RedStorm panties in a bunch tell me what I said that was so off? Are you happy with how your team has performed the last 10 years? Do you think the SHU, DePaul and Prov fans want to start hanging banners for how they played the last 10 years? How am I wrong?

Facts are facts. In the past 10 BE seasons, Nova is 10-1 vs. St. Johns. In the past decade Nova has 13 tournament wins. 13. G'town has 8. Marq has 9. (FYI, Xavier: 8. Butler:13 Creighton:2). DePaul, Prov., SHU and SJU have combined: 0. 0. So SJU has benefited from all those tournament credits from VU, MU & GU and in return those 3 have gotten pennies in return from the other 4. You of all people should demand more from your own program. For this league to be successful we need 5-6 schools to get into the tourney each year, and get wins from almost all. It's really that simple. I would love if SJU was one of them.

And nice comeback...we lost in the tourney to the eventual National Champion. Oh the horror. You guys lost in the first round of the NIT to Robert Morris. WTF? Interestingly over the past 10 years Nova has lost in the tourney to the eventual National Champion 5 times. Florida, UNC (2x), Uconn and Kansas. Crazy stat.

[marquette]

It is what it is. Creighton has more questions about them this year than any other other team not named DePaul.

I would maybe slot MU in that spot this year. Next year I expect a massive leap forward.

@Creighton fans. I don't think Bill is trying to insult. For whatever it's worth, I had a pretty heated back and forth preseason argument with him last season. I have learned to moderate myself somewhat. Crow is not my favorite meal.

[Professor_Bulldog]

But seriously, Creighton sucks am I right