Will Big 5 split from NCAA basketball?

[robinreed]

The "power 5" have already shown their hand. Their complete takeover of football is merely a precursor. They have increased the amount of money they make whilst reducing the money (on a percentage basis) of all other football programs. This is not surprising as these P 5 schools have openly stated that the level playing field is an unacceptable status. They believe they are better than that and are now talking about not playing non P 5 teams at all. Thus they would avoid being embarrassed by a loss such as the recent Texas loss to BYU in football.

If this is their plan in the most popular sport then it inevitably will be their plan in the second most popular sport. The concept that the P 5 likes Cinderella teams is flawed. They only value winning and establishing the absurd yet needed concept that even their less competent teams are better than any other team from any non P 5 conference. Their greed and hubris are unlimited and there are several scenarios in which the P 5 could devise a method of making more money from a post season tourney which they owned and managed. Please do not believe that they care about fairness or about promoting the game. They only care about themselves and this will eventually bring about our degradation and hopefully their eventual demise.

[marquette]

The "power 5" have already shown their hand. Their complete takeover of football is merely a precursor. They have increased the amount of money they make whilst reducing the money (on a percentage basis) of all other football programs. This is not surprising as these P 5 schools have openly stated that the level playing field is an unacceptable status. They believe they are better than that and are now talking about not playing non P 5 teams at all. Thus they would avoid being embarrassed by a loss such as the recent Texas loss to BYU in football.

If this is their plan in the most popular sport then it inevitably will be their plan in the second most popular sport. The concept that the P 5 likes Cinderella teams is flawed. They only value winning and establishing the absurd yet needed concept that even their less competent teams are better than any other team from any non P 5 conference. Their greed and hubris are unlimited and there are several scenarios in which the P 5 could devise a method of making more money from a post season tourney which they owned and managed. Please do not believe that they care about fairness or about promoting the game. They only care about themselves and this will eventually bring about our degradation and hopefully their eventual demise.

So, the B1G/BE challenge thing...that fits into this theory...how?

[DudeAnon]

This could describe many posters here:

[robinreed]

Marquette,

The challenge fits in much the same way that previous football relationships between strong P 5 teams and weak FCS or G 5 challenges fit. Ohio State or USC would schedule games with Kent State and SDSU which the P 5 teams would win by large scores thus proving that the P 5 teams (and by extension conferences) were superior. Then as the games became so one sided the number of such contests would be gradually reduced until the P 5 could safely talk about eliminating the "even playing field" argument and as they currently are doing gradually eliminating the lesser conferences and schools from the national championship consideration. Hence the number of non P 5 schools which would have any chance of competing in the football national championship playoff would be reduced and eventually eliminated as is now the case. This same argument will be used to eliminate non P 5 schools from the national championship in basketball by founding a P 5 national championship tourney.

The only hope for conferences such as ours will be to win 60 to 70% or more of our games with P 5 schools and do so on a yearly basis. Even then should we have this kind of success the P 5 will simply eliminate the challenge stating they must play more games against P 5 teams. This is exactly the type of argument they are using now in football.

Marquette I am sure you remember the old BE vs SEC challenge. The BE won the majority of the games each year. SEC coaches complained that this was keeping their schools out of the dance. The SEC took the logical step (in their eyes) of eliminating the challenge because it got in the way of their success. Beware of the same thing happening to us in the current BE should we win too many games vs the B10.

I don't know what football team you follow, perhaps Wisconsin, however although I am an XU grad (BA) I took my MA from Cincinnati. I follow their football team and see the exact thing I previously described occurring to the UC football program. It will also happen eventually to their basketball team however I don't care one way or another about UC basketball or their idiot coach and so their demise will not be an issue for me. Our demise in sports (XU) will be an issue and a great tragedy for one of the best private universities in the mid west.

Their is no sense of reason, equity or long term stability in P 5 thinking. This is what happens when amateur sports becomes about money and power first, last and always. It becomes no better than politics.

[Xudash]

The "power 5" have already shown their hand. Their complete takeover of football is merely a precursor. They have increased the amount of money they make whilst reducing the money (on a percentage basis) of all other football programs. This is not surprising as these P 5 schools have openly stated that the level playing field is an unacceptable status. They believe they are better than that and are now talking about not playing non P 5 teams at all. Thus they would avoid being embarrassed by a loss such as the recent Texas loss to BYU in football.

If this is their plan in the most popular sport then it inevitably will be their plan in the second most popular sport. The concept that the P 5 likes Cinderella teams is flawed. They only value winning and establishing the absurd yet needed concept that even their less competent teams are better than any other team from any non P 5 conference. Their greed and hubris are unlimited and there are several scenarios in which the P 5 could devise a method of making more money from a post season tourney which they owned and managed. Please do not believe that they care about fairness or about promoting the game. They only care about themselves and this will eventually bring about our degradation and hopefully their eventual demise.

What you continue to miss badly is the fact that the money comes from television. CBS could care less about how the P5 feel about Cinderella's.

You otherwise are placing way too much emphasis on the P5's football intentions as you transpose them onto what they want for basketball, or, for that matter, can even do about basketball.

[robinreed]

Dash,

Whilst CBS does not care about the "feelings" of the P 5 should the P 5 withdraw to found a separate national championship tourney CBS and all the other networks would be immediately in line to offer them significant money to televise it. The money would be more on a per team basis than they receive from the current situation and the NCAA tourney contract would be redrawn with a much smaller payout.

I did not suggest the establishment of a P 5 only tourney would cancel the NCAA tourney. Only reduce it's payout and viewership. I am old enough to remember a time when the NIT and NCAA were both on TV at the same time and both had reasonably good viewership.

Again allow me to say money is important to all collegiate programs. However to the P 5 it is God incarnate. Or should I say money and power are God to the P 5.

I do not miss the fact that the money comes from CBS, perhaps you miss the fact that approximately 30 percent of income from the actual tournament goes to NCAA administrative, promotional and charitable causes not to the teams which take part in the tourney. This would not be the case in a separate and non sanctioned P 5 tourney. They would get all the money from tv and the actual tourney.

[Xudash]

Dash,

Whilst CBS does not care about the "feelings" of the P 5 should the P 5 withdraw to found a separate national championship tourney CBS and all the other networks would be immediately in line to offer them significant money to televise it. The money would be more on a per team basis than they receive from the current situation and the NCAA tourney contract would be redrawn with a much smaller payout.

I did not suggest the establishment of a P 5 only tourney would cancel the NCAA tourney. Only reduce it's payout and viewership. I am old enough to remember a time when the NIT and NCAA were both on TV at the same time and both had reasonably good viewership.

Again allow me to say money is important to all collegiate programs. However to the P 5 it is God incarnate. Or should I say money and power are God to the P 5.

I do not miss the fact that the money comes from CBS, perhaps you miss the fact that approximately 30 percent of income from the actual tournament goes to NCAA administrative, promotional and charitable causes not to the teams which take part in the tourney. This would not be the case in a separate and non sanctioned P 5 tourney. They would get all the money from tv and the actual tourney.

We will agree to disagree on the notion that the P5 would make more money on a per team basis were they to break away.

How do you propose the P5 handle its non-Olympic sports and Title IX under a full break scenario? Do you foresee them killing women's sports?

Allow me to try to take you back to something both Slive and Delaney have been quoted on: the fact that their focus has been on football. Nothing else.

Frankly, I'm finished with this conversation. I believe the NCAA Tournament as it presently exists is one of the greatest sporting events on earth and I believe enough important people in important positions understand that.

[stever20]

I think my thought is that the P5 won't get as much as the NCAA tourney, but they would get as much as the P5 alone gets right now.

Also right now the P5 gets barely over half the NCAA units- last year for instance the P5 got 69 units while the others got 59 units. 2013 P5 got 55 and others got 73. To think the P5 isn't going to want to make that a lot different I think is pure folly. to act like the P5 is going to just going to be fine with the status quo is pretty dubious.

I think the P5 probably keeps the tourney but they force a lot of money changes.

[GumbyDamnit!]

I think my thought is that the P5 won't get as much as the NCAA tourney, but they would get as much as the P5 alone gets right now.

Also right now the P5 gets barely over half the NCAA units- last year for instance the P5 got 69 units while the others got 59 units. 2013 P5 got 55 and others got 73. To think the P5 isn't going to want to make that a lot different I think is pure folly. to act like the P5 is going to just going to be fine with the status quo is pretty dubious.

I think the P5 probably keeps the tourney but they force a lot of money changes.

When looking at any issue involving college athletics from this point forward, the one certainty is that if there is money to be gained, period, these college Presidents and AD's will stampede their own mothers in order to get to it. That, and that alone, worries me most when contemplating what may happen to college hoops. If, at some point, the P5 think that they can make a cash grab at the expense of every other non-P5 school, they will. And they'll do it without regard to tradition and the greater good. F'ing blood sucking tics that will keep at it until it is completely dry, and they are too fat to move. They remind me of of the fine folks at Goldman Sachs actually.

[SJHooper]

I know we are all still skeptical and worried since the old Big East breakup. It still haunts me hearing on NY radio that Syracuse and Pitt suddenly announced their departure for the ACC and how it might open up a can of worms. It was strange too because the bulletin came in right as I pulled into St. John's for grad classes.

But let's not go crazy here. Not everything is a conspiracy theory. The NCAA tourney is a huge part of pop culture every March. Commercials, shirts, the vibes on campus, around the fan bases, on ESPN, everyone filling out brackets including the freaking President. It's way bigger than some make it seem. It's the best postseason tourney in any sport in America. It has the perfect blend of cinderellas and blue bloods. The reason it's so popular and makes so much money is BECAUSE of this formula. People would not pay the same to see Virginia Tech beat Pitt and call it a "huge upset" or a "cinderella run" for VT. It's not the same at all.

Do you know how many less viewers there would be if they totally turn it upside down? Their tourney would need to be totally rebranded and renamed, it would take forever until it became a household name and people knew what it was, and it wouldn't have any cinderellas which is the key. The hype it garners now is why there are so many viewers and thus so much money. A totally different tournament with only P5 schools would not garner anywhere near the same hype. And there is just no way all these big name schools get left behind like Nova, G'Town, Marquette, UConn, Cincy, Memphis, etc.