VCU in the BE may be a dead issue

[NJRedman]

The Big East is comprised of 10 private institutions with 9 of 10 being Catholic. All the schools including Butler has similar missions, identities, and philosophies. It is extremely unlikely they will add a public school. As some posters have noted, Commonwealth politics play a role in VCU's future and the Big East President's will not want any part of that.

I will go out on a limb and say Gonzaga is more likely than VCU to be added. The Presidents of the 10 Big East Schools (9 of which are Catholic) will ensure a great men's basketball program is necessary for admission to the BE, but it is not sufficient. Any new program will have to a similar mission and that will take VCU out of the mix.

The only schools that fit your criteria within the existing footprint are St Louis. If that happens, it will be time to move the Big East tournament to Chicago, rename it The Great Midwest, and accept second tier status in the Midwest to the Big Ten.

So adding Saint Louis would make us the Great Midwest?

[GumbyDamnit!]

Huh? Bill, you're usually a quality poster but it's like you've gone off your meds this week.

[Bill Marsh]

The Big East is comprised of 10 private institutions with 9 of 10 being Catholic. All the schools including Butler has similar missions, identities, and philosophies. It is extremely unlikely they will add a public school. As some posters have noted, Commonwealth politics play a role in VCU's future and the Big East President's will not want any part of that.

I will go out on a limb and say Gonzaga is more likely than VCU to be added. The Presidents of the 10 Big East Schools (9 of which are Catholic) will ensure a great men's basketball program is necessary for admission to the BE, but it is not sufficient. Any new program will have to a similar mission and that will take VCU out of the mix.

The only schools that fit your criteria within the existing footprint are St Louis. If that happens, it will be time to move the Big East tournament to Chicago, rename it The Great Midwest, and accept second tier status in the Midwest to the Big Ten.

So adding Saint Louis would make us the Great Midwest?

How would tipping the balance toward 7 Midwest schools and 5 in the East do anything other than that?

[Bill Marsh]

Huh? Bill, you're usually a quality poster but it's like you've gone off your meds this week.

Thanks, Gumby. Coming from you, I greatly appreciate the comment.

We all have to have our quirky side, don't we? Helps to keep the conversation interesting when we're not all singing from the same hymn book.

[Bluejay]

All our problems would be solved if we cut some deal where UConn, Cincy, and Memphis realize they are basketball schools and will never be a national player in football. I know this has been said millions of times, but if they just store their football in another conference and sign a contract saying they won't leave for at least 10-15 years or whatever, it would be amazing. That would essentially shut everyone up about whether we are still a powerhouse conference or not. The Big East is the perfect fit for those schools…but they just won't give up their football. That cost them in settling for the AAC. Why don't those schools just store their football elsewhere?

The problem is that there is nowhere to "store" those football programs. The AAC isn't going to take only their football programs and lose out on the lucrative basketball programs, especially if the AAC knows that the schools will move their basketball programs to the Big East. The MAC is the only other potential option, but their TV deal stinks out loud.

[NJRedman]

The only schools that fit your criteria within the existing footprint are St Louis. If that happens, it will be time to move the Big East tournament to Chicago, rename it The Great Midwest, and accept second tier status in the Midwest to the Big Ten.

So adding Saint Louis would make us the Great Midwest?

How would tipping the balance toward 7 Midwest schools and 5 in the East do anything other than that?

1. Who is 7?

2. We still have 5 schools who hug the east coast. How is that the Great Midwest?

3. How would our quality drop that far by adding one or two teams? SLU straight up won the A-10 last year, probably the best that conference has been in quite some time. Looking at their possible third straight trip to the NCAA.

4. Your hyperbole was silly and unrealistic. Explain how we will drop so far just by being geographically uneven? If we add quality teams then how do we fall in stature?

[BillikensWin]

The only schools that fit your criteria within the existing footprint are St Louis. If that happens, it will be time to move the Big East tournament to Chicago, rename it The Great Midwest, and accept second tier status in the Midwest to the Big Ten.[/quote]

So adding Saint Louis would make us the Great Midwest? [/quote]

How would tipping the balance toward 7 Midwest schools and 5 in the East do anything other than that?[/quote]

1. Who is 7?

2. We still have 5 schools who hug the east coast. How is that the Great Midwest?

3. How would our quality drop that far by adding one or two teams? SLU straight up won the A-10 last year, probably the best that conference has been in quite some time. Looking at their possible third straight trip to the NCAA.

4. Your hyperbole was silly and unrealistic. Explain how we will drop so far just by being geographically uneven? If we add quality teams then how do we fall in stature?[/quote]

As I have ascertained Bill's position, he is big on the geography and the Big East staying as the pre-eminent draw on the East Coast. That said, I don't think adding 1 MW school would throw things off that much. He's saying 7 because of the possibility of SLU and Dayton I'd imagine.

[gosports1]

is the BE 2nd tier in the midwest to the b10 now without SLU? If we expand we need quality program(s). as it stands today st louis is the best option. That could change of course, but i think at the level they currently are playing Slu would improve the level of the BE

[Bill Marsh]

So adding Saint Louis would make us the Great Midwest?

How would tipping the balance toward 7 Midwest schools and 5 in the East do anything other than that?

1. Who is 7?

2. We still have 5 schools who hug the east coast. How is that the Great Midwest?

3. How would our quality drop that far by adding one or two teams? SLU straight up won the A-10 last year, probably the best that conference has been in quite some time. Looking at their possible third straight trip to the NCAA.

4. Your hyperbole was silly and unrealistic. Explain how we will drop so far just by being geographically uneven? If we add quality teams then how do we fall in stature?

Sorry,but reading back on my earlier post, I realize that I had a brain lapse. I meant to say that "the only schools that fit your criteria within the existing footprint are St Louis AND DAYTON."

I apologize for the confusion.

My point is that if the conference expands to 12 with 2 schools from the Midwest, it becomes heavily weighted in that direction and that becomes it's identity.

My second point was not that quality drops but that any group of Midwestern schools will always be second tier to the dominates the region in every way. It becomes harder to recruit, harder to get recognition, harder to get visibility on TV.

The advantage of emphasizing an Eastern identity is based on the same opportunity that has always existed in the East since the conference was formed. No other collegiate conference dominates the Northeast. If the conference can reach critical mass in the East, it can dominate recruiting, TV visibility, and fan awareness. If it were up to me, I would expand with VCU and UMass simply because the East is the place where college sports are underrepresented and therefore the place where the Big East can build on it's existing traditions. Football is not yet the factor at UMass that it is at UConn and it may never be.

The other factor of course is that schools from the East are better able to deliver fans to the Big East tournament, which is critical to the ongoing .success of the conference.

[Bill Marsh]

The only schools that fit your criteria within the existing footprint are St Louis. If that happens, it will be time to move the Big East tournament to Chicago, rename it The Great Midwest, and accept second tier status in the Midwest to the Big Ten.

So adding Saint Louis would make us the Great Midwest? [/quote]

How would tipping the balance toward 7 Midwest schools and 5 in the East do anything other than that?[/quote]

1. Who is 7?

2. We still have 5 schools who hug the east coast. How is that the Great Midwest?

3. How would our quality drop that far by adding one or two teams? SLU straight up won the A-10 last year, probably the best that conference has been in quite some time. Looking at their possible third straight trip to the NCAA.

4. Your hyperbole was silly and unrealistic. Explain how we will drop so far just by being geographically uneven? If we add quality teams then how do we fall in stature?[/quote]

As I have ascertained Bill's position, he is big on the geography and the Big East staying as the pre-eminent draw on the East Coast. That said, I don't think adding 1 MW school would throw things off that much. He's saying 7 because of the possibility of SLU and Dayton I'd imagine.[/quote]

Billiken, you read me correctly. Although I'd prefer to get to 12 with 2 schools from the East, I could live with one from the East and one from the Midwest. Either VCU or UMass would make sense to me.