Omaha1 wrote:This isn’t meant as some kind of cheap shot at anyone, but as a Creighton fan I really don’t have any interest in reducing the number of times I see my team play Nova, Hall, Marquette and have those matchups replaced by games against VCU and Dayton or anyone else. For that reason alone I am opposed to expansion.
No offense taken. I'm not here to convince anyone VCU is the bees-knees and that the Big East should invite VCU (in part because it's not lost on me that slinging for a school on a message board has little utility in changing the minds of actual decision makers), but rather trying to understand how other folks assign (or speculate) CBB value.
Two quick thoughts though. First, what if by adding a team (whether if be VCU, Dayton or anyone else), hypothetically was the difference between Creighton being in the top 25 (e.g. beating VCU/Dayton/ETC was enough to push Creighton in the top 25), and thus making the Creighton-Nova game a matchup of 2 top 25 teams? Would playing that BE-expansion team then be worth it? Alternatively, if the VCU/Dayton/whoever else team was ranked in the top 25, would it still be of no interest?
Second, and similarly no offense, but VCU wouldn't be joining to play DePaul or Providence as their marquee games. How would you feel about a Creighton-DePaul game being replaced with a Creighton-VCU game.
adoraz wrote:Ram fans: I don't think there are numbers available online to prove this given that ratings information isn't easy to find and directly compare. That said, let's consider the following involving the networks (who do have access to these numbers):
1. Villanova, UConn and Georgetown tend to be the teams that Fox and CBS feature the most (despite Georgetown being mediocre)
2. The Big East's TV contract is worth significantly worth more than the A10's (multiple times?)
3. During the Big East's expansion 8 years ago they did not take those 3 teams
4. Those 3 teams, with the likely exception of Dayton, I don't believe have raised their profiles since the Big East last excluded them
I'm not saying that a UConn is worth 10X that of a Dayton, but I absolutely think they're worth perhaps 3-5X as much (especially when you consider their women's hoops, which the networks feature some games for).
Overall that's what I'm getting at. UConn was a great add because they will increase our per-team payout. Those other 3 won't. I just can't see Fox advertising on football Sunday to watch the Big East double header between St. Louis vs Dayton followed by VCU vs Providence or whatever. People would be confused as to why those random, seemingly uneventful, matchups were being listed. Headline with Nova, UConn or GTown? Night and day. Sure, a lot of that has to do with how those teams have performed on the court (currently and/or historically), but VCU, Dayton and St. Louis have had their chance and haven't elevated their programs enough. Close to zero casual viewers are tuning in for those teams, and they'd also be much more likely to get current viewers to change the channel (such as during the second half of a B1G - BE double header).
I understand those 3 A10 teams have strong fan bases with local interest. I just don't see them having much national interest. Certainly not enough to increase our per-team payout, otherwise they'd already be in our league.
Yeah, it's hard to find info on regular season games, which was the impetus for joining this board to gain a better perspective on how y'all were valuing teams. Looking at conference finals, which really isn't representative of a league's entire value, the A10's viewership stacks up favorably to the Big East's, especially when VCU is in the game.
I'm not sure why you wouldn't look at the marquee matchups. Would VCU-Georgetown/Villanova/etc. bring in more viewers than DePaul-Georgetown? I think the answer is yes, but again, it's hard to base that in numbers.
Not to harp too much on this point, but I'm not sure why a conference's media contract is a good representative of a specific team's worth. If it were, then there would never be any realignment in either football or basketball since everyone is being paid their fair value. Also, taking Butler as an example, Butler was in the Horizon and A10 with the same or worse contacts than the current A10 contract, but their conference's low media payout didn't define their value to the Big East.
I think part of why VCU wasn't in the original cut was two-fold. First, we were coming from the CAA, which was several ladders down from the Big East. Second, we would have been the only public school. With UConn now in the fold, I think the calculus may be a bit different.
Again, not sure why you would define a team's worth by its conference's media contract. It's a classic chicken and egg. If VCU or Dayton joined the Big East (or any conference with a larger CBB TV payout) would you say that VCU/Dayton's value increased instantly or that because VCU and Dayton were valuable, they joined the Big East. I think you've stated that you think Gonzaga would be a good addition (logistics aside). How much do they make from the WCC media contract?
Thanks for the WSJ article. I found a newer version from 2019 here (which was unkind to VCU):
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-much-i ... 1554739458Even with the one year dip, VCU would be 3rd most valuable program in the Big East, just ahead of Georgetown. I'm a bit surprised, but Dayton would be the most valuable program, just ahead of Villanova.