Growing Gap in NCAA Payouts

[stever20]

the league has had 7 top 2 seeds in the 6 years of the league setup. Only Nova in '16 and '18 advanced to the 2nd weekend from that group.

There were 41 other top 2 seeds in those 6 years. 31 of those 41 advanced to the sweet 16(75.6%).

So just by the numbers, the league should have had 3 more sweet 16's from those top 2 seeds. I get what scoscox says. If 1-2 of those early flameouts don't happen, the narrative is nothing like it was/is. Especially when you add the 2014 Creighton to the mix and their 30 point blowout at the hands of Baylor- that didn't help at all either.

Sorry but fans of teams don't get to control the narrative. Narratives happen regardless if you like it or not. The narrative of the Big East is very up in the air right now, especially all teams not named Villanova. Things like what just happened with Maruette and the Hausers transferring do not help at all.

I think part of the problem with the other teams in the league is they've been hurt by league play so much in that they've always got like 8 conference losses, and wind up with seeds in that pit of misery that I always talk of. The league in the last 5 years has had an incredible 10 teams on that 8-10 line. Teams seeded there are going to be playing in essence road games against top 1-2 seeds. All 10 teams have had at least 8 conference losses. Seton Hall 2 years ago a great example. Great team but had 8 conference losses. Their reward was a 8 seed and having to play Kansas in Wichita in rd 2. very talented team, but an impossible situation.

[gtmoBlue]

3 teams have made the sweet sixteen. Butler, Xavier, and Villanova.

The biggest things that have hurt the conference in the postseason:
Nova 2014 - 2 seed - second round loss
Nova 2015 - 1 seed - second round loss
Nova 2017 - 1 seed - second round loss
Xavier 2016 - 2 seed - second round loss
Xavier 2018 - 1 seed - second round loss
Creighton 2014 - 3 seed - second round loss

If half of these teams come even close to holding seed there would be no narrative of disappointment and our win-loss totals in the tournament would be more in line with the other power conferences

I’m sorry but did you just submit your theory that if “these teams (had) come close to holding their seed, there would be no narrative of disappointment,” and then note 3 Nova teams and 2 X teams? First of all Nova and “tourney disappointment” can’t be uttered by any other fan base in the BE. Secondly, I think X has represented themselves just fine in the tourney as well. This thread should start and end with expecting someone not named Nova or X to make any kind of run in the tourney one of these years. With the talented programs that we’ve had I don’t think that expectation is too much to ask.

That is the point of my post, Omaha1 and His fixation on the Butler SS aside. The rest of our teams need to perform much better in the dance. Granted doing so is more difficult from the 7-10 seed standings (given that we beat each other up in conference play). But until our teams outplay their seed(s) we will continue to be Villanova and the little nine.

[GoldenWarrior11]

the league has had 7 top 2 seeds in the 6 years of the league setup. Only Nova in '16 and '18 advanced to the 2nd weekend from that group.

There were 41 other top 2 seeds in those 6 years. 31 of those 41 advanced to the sweet 16(75.6%).

So just by the numbers, the league should have had 3 more sweet 16's from those top 2 seeds. I get what scoscox says. If 1-2 of those early flameouts don't happen, the narrative is nothing like it was/is. Especially when you add the 2014 Creighton to the mix and their 30 point blowout at the hands of Baylor- that didn't help at all either.

Sorry but fans of teams don't get to control the narrative. Narratives happen regardless if you like it or not. The narrative of the Big East is very up in the air right now, especially all teams not named Villanova. Things like what just happened with Maruette and the Hausers transferring do not help at all.

I think part of the problem with the other teams in the league is they've been hurt by league play so much in that they've always got like 8 conference losses, and wind up with seeds in that pit of misery that I always talk of. The league in the last 5 years has had an incredible 10 teams on that 8-10 line. Teams seeded there are going to be playing in essence road games against top 1-2 seeds. All 10 teams have had at least 8 conference losses. Seton Hall 2 years ago a great example. Great team but had 8 conference losses. Their reward was a 8 seed and having to play Kansas in Wichita in rd 2. very talented team, but an impossible situation.

So, let me get this straight: you want to lecture fans here about controlling the narrative about woulda, shoulda, couldas. I totally agree - what happens happens. However, you are the very same and exact poster that last Spring was proclaiming the AAC was unlucky - and, if not for a few tournament wins - would be spoken about in the same breath as the Big East (you even specifically referenced Houston's tournament game last year).

The Big East's narrative is not very much up in the air at all right now; it is very much established as a top basketball conference. The league just needs to get over the hump of having other programs get a deep tournament run every now and then to compliment Villanova. The fact we have a current blue blood in Villanova is much more impactful than not having one at all.

[GumbyDamnit!]

the league has had 7 top 2 seeds in the 6 years of the league setup. Only Nova in '16 and '18 advanced to the 2nd weekend from that group.

There were 41 other top 2 seeds in those 6 years. 31 of those 41 advanced to the sweet 16(75.6%).

So just by the numbers, the league should have had 3 more sweet 16's from those top 2 seeds. I get what scoscox says. If 1-2 of those early flameouts don't happen, the narrative is nothing like it was/is. Especially when you add the 2014 Creighton to the mix and their 30 point blowout at the hands of Baylor- that didn't help at all either.

Sorry but fans of teams don't get to control the narrative. Narratives happen regardless if you like it or not. The narrative of the Big East is very up in the air right now, especially all teams not named Villanova. Things like what just happened with Maruette and the Hausers transferring do not help at all.

I think part of the problem with the other teams in the league is they've been hurt by league play so much in that they've always got like 8 conference losses, and wind up with seeds in that pit of misery that I always talk of. The league in the last 5 years has had an incredible 10 teams on that 8-10 line. Teams seeded there are going to be playing in essence road games against top 1-2 seeds. All 10 teams have had at least 8 conference losses. Seton Hall 2 years ago a great example. Great team but had 8 conference losses. Their reward was a 8 seed and having to play Kansas in Wichita in rd 2. very talented team, but an impossible situation.

Again, you have no feet to stand on to talk about narrative and then cherry pick data. In the last 20 years (a completely relevant period of time) we've had 4 different programs from our current BE conference that have made a FF, and have had 7 in total. 40% of the conference. That's more than the Pac-12 during the same time period, even though they have more programs. The last championship for the Pac-12? 1997. The last championship for the Big10? How about 2000.

You talk about how programs and conferences are made by tourney results. Well, we've got 2 NC's in 6 years. And the Pac-12 hasn't had one in 22 years and the Big10 in 19. In fact the Big10 has had 15 FF teams over the last 18 years and has failed to win a single NC. The odds tell you that they should have had 4 NC's over that span, yet they had zero. How's that for narrative?

We are not the ACC. I have no shame in saying that they are the gold standard. No ifs, ands, or buts. The Big 12 is a very good conference right now as well IMO; probably better than us. The SEC and Big10 are both solid (despite the B1G's inability to win the big one). Those last 3 are who we are on par with IMO. No one can make any sensible argument that we are not a top 5 conference. Some years we'll outshine some of those others, other years they'll outshine us. I am fine with that.

So for every team that should have gotten out of the first weekend, I'll raise you a conference with 2 NC's. The narrative is that the Pac-12 is washed up and the Big 10 can't win a NC, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more than any narrative you want to peddle. Yeah, I agree that someone other than Nova needs to make a run sooner than later, but last time I checked Nova is in the BE. And last time I checked, they came in 2nd and still won a NC one of those years. Stop with your constant BE-hating barb throwing at every opportunity. It's old.

[scoscox]

And Gumby, all I mean by those stats are that if just a few of those teams managed to make the sweet sixteen atleast before bowing out, the narrative would have even less bearing. We'd have the same number of wins in the tournament as the rest of the power leagues on top of the 2 natty's. that's why i said they were missed opportunities. We'd arguably be able to call ourselves the best conference in the country.

[GumbyDamnit!]

And Gumby, all I mean by those stats are that if just a few of those teams managed to make the sweet sixteen atleast before bowing out, the narrative would have even less bearing. We'd have the same number of wins in the tournament as the rest of the power leagues on top of the 2 natty's. that's why i said they were missed opportunities. We'd arguably be able to call ourselves the best conference in the country.

There is a narrative for fans that are very close to things, and a narrative for those that are much further away. Very few fans of college basketball are looking at this type of micro level that you present quite frankly. In fact, you ask the average college BB fan about Nova and I'll guarantee they'll spend 30 minutes talking about the 2 national championship runs, and zero talking about those 3 years they bowed out early. It's "The Shot" and the Brunson--Bridges--DiVincenzo team that blew everyone off the court by double digits. THAT is the Nova narrative of the last 6 years to the average BB fan.

It's not like these X and Nova teams lost to Lehigh. No one outside of the BE or B12 remembers Baylor beating CU. It's not a bad beat. Baylor was good. Nova lost to UConn. Yeah, and UConn beat 5 other teams in the tourney that year. 2 losses to Wisconsin who was in the midst of the best decade in their BB history. Those are something to be embarassed about? Not to the average fan. Fans remember Lehigh beating Duke and Middle Tenn beating Mich St.

Butler is that Cinderella team that made back-to-back FFs and almost knocked off Duke. X is that once mid major, who's been relevant for decades, that is now in a power conference and taking big steps forward. PC, SHU and Creighton have all been solid and relevant--in and around the tournament for several of the past half dozen years. The only narrative that the BE can't shake is: G'town and Marq aren't what they used to be in the old BE, DePaul is Depaul, and St. John's isn't the St. John's of the 80's anymore. I think there is good chance that those narratives can be changed in the next few years.

We all might think that the average college BB fans view us under a microscope as we do ourselves or as that AAC shill does whenever we falter. But the truth is they remember key generalities. 2 NC's. Tons of bids. Several different teams ranked. That's the narrative.

[pki1998]

Will the mods please banish stever? He has been an obvious troll for years and makes this forum basically unreadable. Why is he continued to be allowed to post?

[billyjack]

Will the mods please banish stever? He has been an obvious troll for years and makes this forum basically unreadable. Why is he continued to be allowed to post?

Stever's Translation and Ground Rules: Let's talk about the Big East, but we can't discuss our 2 National Championships, an Elite-8 and a Sweet-16. Also, ignore the fact that Xavier made an Elite-8 as an 11-seed. Go!

[billyjack]

And Gumby, all I mean by those stats are that if just a few of those teams managed to make the sweet sixteen atleast before bowing out, the narrative would have even less bearing. We'd have the same number of wins in the tournament as the rest of the power leagues on top of the 2 natty's. that's why i said they were missed opportunities. We'd arguably be able to call ourselves the best conference in the country.

There is a narrative for fans that are very close to things, and a narrative for those that are much further away. Very few fans of college basketball are looking at this type of micro level that you present quite frankly. In fact, you ask the average college BB fan about Nova and I'll guarantee they'll spend 30 minutes talking about the 2 national championship runs, and zero talking about those 3 years they bowed out early. It's "The Shot" and the Brunson--Bridges--DiVincenzo team that blew everyone off the court by double digits. THAT is the Nova narrative of the last 6 years to the average BB fan.

It's not like these X and Nova teams lost to Lehigh. No one outside of the BE or B12 remembers Baylor beating CU. It's not a bad beat. Baylor was good. Nova lost to UConn. Yeah, and UConn beat 5 other teams in the tourney that year. 2 losses to Wisconsin who was in the midst of the best decade in their BB history. Those are something to be embarassed about? Not to the average fan. Fans remember Lehigh beating Duke and Middle Tenn beating Mich St.

Butler is that Cinderella team that made back-to-back FFs and almost knocked off Duke. X is that once mid major, who's been relevant for decades, that is now in a power conference and taking big steps forward. PC, SHU and Creighton have all been solid and relevant--in and around the tournament for several of the past half dozen years. The only narrative that the BE can't shake is: G'town and Marq aren't what they used to be in the old BE, DePaul is Depaul, and St. John's isn't the St. John's of the 80's anymore. I think there is good chance that those narratives can be changed in the next few years.

We all might think that the average college BB fans view us under a microscope as we do ourselves or as that AAC shill does whenever we falter. But the truth is they remember key generalities. 2 NC's. Tons of bids. Several different teams ranked. That's the narrative.

Excellent post Gumby.

[sju88grad]

Will the mods please banish stever? He has been an obvious troll for years and makes this forum basically unreadable. Why is he continued to be allowed to post?

I think I need a fix of my favorite “stever = cat typing on keyboard” meme!!