Geography & Expansion: When Creighton was invited...

[sciencejay]

Yeah, it's no strawman. Expecting them to automatically be a top 20 team jumping into the Big East playing half it's conference games at least 2 time zones away is beyond optimistic.

The reason it's a bigger deal for them is because they aren't in a big market, aren't in a fertile recruiting ground and aren't even close to being a geographic fit.

All the arguments for Gonzaga are about them staying as good as they are now forever. Thats unrealistic.

I guess we'll end up needing to agree to disagree on this one, but I don't agree with your position that Gonzaga remaining successful when many of their conference road trips are 2-3 time zones away is beyond optimistic. Conference scheduling would absolutely be adjusted to ensure that Gonzaga could do a two-fer on every road trip (what, four conference road trips a year?). It would seem likely to me that Few would just leave town a day earlier than other schools would when heading to play SJ/SH or whomever. That would cost his student athletes four extra days away from class a year. So what? They already have tutors and special accommodations to help them with their school work while they are in the heat of the season (not implying that they have 'help' like UNC athletes get help. Wink wink, nudge nudge. Know what I mean?). And for the rest of the conference schools, it would be only one trip a year--to Omaha/Spokane, most likely. So those student athletes only miss one extra day of school.

In addition, going from the WCC to the BEast should improve their recruiting (it seems to have for Creighton, and BU/XU fans have made similar comments when they upgraded to the BEast). So they may be reasonably expected to compete with Nova/others for the conference title annually. And Few has more than demonstrated for 10+ years at the helm that the Zags can go on the road, compete with and beat almost anyone in the country. So with access to even better recruits, it's simply not unrealistic to expect that they can maintain a high level. Again, there are no guarantees, but to suggest that a move wwwwaaaaaaaayyyyyyy up in conference quality would hurt recruiting and therefore the talent they can put on the court seems to me to be beyond pessimistic.

I do think the cost of travel for the 'other' sports (everything but Men's BB) is an issue that would of course have to be considered at length. But maybe Gonzaga only joins for BB? Or some other kind of arrangement to minimize travel expenses can be achieved. What's really cool (to me) about all of this with regard to the Big East is that MEN'S BASKETBALL DRIVES THE BUS!!! I absolutely love the fact that football doesn't directly affect the decision-making process. However, in the overall scheme, football is king, and that's why I think our basketball brand needs to be as strong as possible. Inviting Gonzaga strengthens our brand. (And while the institutional fit argument doesn't fly, I would at Wichita St. and/or VCU to strengthen the product as well, but that's another argument).

With regard to 'fertile recruiting ground' arguments, I think adding the Zags would only expand everyone's recruiting ground. With them, each team would be playing on the west coast at least once/year (potentially more if they do a pre-season tourney). I'm of the opinion that most kids want to play close to home so that friends/family can come watch. For the most part. But national TV exposure softens that a bit as does the promise of being reasonably close to home a few times a season. Case in point: One of my daughters is fortunate enough to have many offers to play college volleyball. She ended up choosing a school where my wife and I can see her play with some frequency (four hour drive). If she would have chosen a school much further, we wouldn't get to see her play as much in person due to time/expense. I think that influenced her decision (though she never explicitly said that). So maybe that kid from Seattle that really wanted to go to Xavier ends up going to Xavier (with Gonzaga in the BEast) because he knows his parents will get to see him play in person at least sometimes each season.

And as has been discussed ad nauseum in several threads (about UConn, etc), there aren't a ton of programs who compete at a high level and have that 'institutional fit' that the C7 presidents seemed to value so much four years ago. Gonzaga is absolutely a home run in all aspects, except geography. But many of us think that isn't the insurmountable obstacle that some do. Inviting them isn't desperation, it's a great chance to add another like-minded institution and strengthen the brand at the same time.

[herodotus]

But they are only valuable while they are good. That isn't a good premise for adding a team. Any team who has a run like the Zags will bring that. What happens if they stop being good? That happens to the best of programs and Gonzaga isn't excluded from that. We have an albatross around our necks in the Pacific North West.

DePaul, St. John's, and Georgetown were once very very good. DePaul is awful, St. John's has been up and down for 30 years, and Georgetown is struggling. It definitely could happen to Gonzaga, so it's a legitimate question, maybe the most legitimate of all. Think of how badly the ACC wanted Miami Football, as dominant a program as you could ever want to see. The ACC got them, and they have added absolutely zero value to the league, as they hit the skids right around the time they arrived. They're a decent geographic fit, so it's not a disaster, but imagine that scenario with a team 2,300 miles away from some of it's conference mates?

[gtmoBlue]

Redman, Herotodus...

Evening guys. Interesting give and take on the Zags. Initially Mr. Marsh was informing us as to the shenanigans of teams moving to the AAC and potentially strengthening that conference. What response, if any, would the BE have. Many comments followed, mainly of the head in the sand "We are fine and nothing needs to change" variety. But change is the only constant. The BE cannot afford to rely on Villanova and Xavier to hold our hands, save our butts, Annually - in perpetuity. Others need to rise as well. In adding a Gonzaga we strengthen such a rise immediately - both in national perception and in conference OOS wins.

Bill and ScienceJay both have put forth great debate as to the merit of adding a Gonzaga to the BE. Agree with both men and their points.

The Big East is currently thriving and in a position of relative strength (#3 this season) as a conference. By many accounts on this and related BE boards there is no necessity to act-grow-expand. The conference is successful and winning, sending record numbers of teams to the dance, is growing its fiscal coffers, and is the envy of many other conferences. "There is no need to expand", no hints of duress, desperation, or malady. AND...the "Round Robin" schedule is "perfect".

Many Big East fans here and elsewhere have rosy blinders on and their perception is rosily perfect as well. Perhaps they are correct, however, It is often wise to be proactive and direct - specifically when the environment is perfect and the outlook is still rosy. It is advisable to act during the good times, in order to extend and prolong such times, rather than waiting until the bloom has fallen from the rose to act.

Expanding to 12 with the Zags and one other (the best available private, up and coming, good fit school) will add more good content (Zags), and bolster the middle teams (up and comer team), to keep the Big East as a top tier league. With 12 teams there is greater likelihood of maintaining 5-7 teams annually in the dance (as covered exhaustively by Bill, JPSchmack, others). More content will hearten the folks at Fox and is a good faith move well in advance of the contract renewal some several years from now.

Take your pick of the potential up & comer group of private and catholic universities. They have often been cited on this board. (Examples: BYU, Dayton, Detroit, Duquesne, Holy Cross, Siena, St. Bonaventure, St. Louis, and others.) Preferrably the one that checks the most boxes of the known criteria and has the potential to benefit from the boost in financial and recruiting windfall that joining the BE will produce. Such a school would not be expected to crash the upper tier (immediately) like Gonzaga would, but would probably need a few years to build up its recruiting to effectively compete with the rest of the conference. As such they would boost our middle tier teams with 1-2 more wins annually and regularly put them (middle tier teams) in NCAA bubble contention.

Moving to a 12 team format is a proactive and a temporary move. Ultimately the conference could expand to 14 after the next shakeup of the football five conferences. There will be outcasts from, and disgruntled members within the football five's next realignment earthquake. The Big East would be waiting with an eye on reabsorbing 2 (or more) former BE teams and/or other private schools potentially discarded by the ff (such as Syracuse, BC, ND, Vandy, WF, Baylor, Duke, Northwestern, etc.). The league would proactively put out informal inquiries (2018-19) with potential candiate schools to advise them of our interest, and potentially have informal exploratory discussions on future directions/options available. Such a post ff shakeup expansion (6-8 years from now) would further enhance BE viability with the networks come TV contract renegotiation time.

Now is a great time for the Big East to strike, proactively, towards securing a bright, productive, and prosperous future.

[EMT]

I thought I read that these P5 conference charters do not have the authority or the mechanism to kick anyone out. If that's true, unless the ACC or Big10 completely disbands and regroups under a completely different brand, how does this happen that teams like Vandy/Duke/Northwestern get kicked out? Not to mention the lawsuits filed by the kicked out parties.

[NJRedman]

Redman, Herotodus...

Evening guys. Interesting give and take on the Zags. Initially Mr. Marsh was informing us as to the shenanigans of teams moving to the AAC and potentially strengthening that conference. What response, if any, would the BE have. Many comments followed, mainly of the head in the sand "We are fine and nothing needs to change" variety. But change is the only constant. The BE cannot afford to rely on Villanova and Xavier to hold our hands, save our butts, Annually - in perpetuity. Others need to rise as well. In adding a Gonzaga we strengthen such a rise immediately - both in national perception and in conference OOS wins.

Bill and ScienceJay both have put forth great debate as to the merit of adding a Gonzaga to the BE. Agree with both men and their points.

The Big East is currently thriving and in a position of relative strength (#3 this season) as a conference. By many accounts on this and related BE boards there is no necessity to act-grow-expand. The conference is successful and winning, sending record numbers of teams to the dance, is growing its fiscal coffers, and is the envy of many other conferences. "There is no need to expand", no hints of duress, desperation, or malady. AND...the "Round Robin" schedule is "perfect".

Many Big East fans here and elsewhere have rosy blinders on and their perception is rosily perfect as well. Perhaps they are correct, however, It is often wise to be proactive and direct - specifically when the environment is perfect and the outlook is still rosy. It is advisable to act during the good times, in order to extend and prolong such times, rather than waiting until the bloom has fallen from the rose to act.

Expanding to 12 with the Zags and one other (the best available private, up and coming, good fit school) will add more good content (Zags), and bolster the middle teams (up and comer team), to keep the Big East as a top tier league. With 12 teams there is greater likelihood of maintaining 5-7 teams annually in the dance (as covered exhaustively by Bill, JPSchmack, others). More content will hearten the folks at Fox and is a good faith move well in advance of the contract renewal some several years from now.

Take your pick of the potential up & comer group of private and catholic universities. They have often been cited on this board. (Examples: BYU, Dayton, Detroit, Duquesne, Holy Cross, Siena, St. Bonaventure, St. Louis, and others.) Preferrably the one that checks the most boxes of the known criteria and has the potential to benefit from the boost in financial and recruiting windfall that joining the BE will produce. Such a school would not be expected to crash the upper tier (immediately) like Gonzaga would, but would probably need a few years to build up its recruiting to effectively compete with the rest of the conference. As such they would boost our middle tier teams with 1-2 more wins annually and regularly put them (middle tier teams) in NCAA bubble contention.

Moving to a 12 team format is a proactive and a temporary move. Ultimately the conference could expand to 14 after the next shakeup of the football five conferences. There will be outcasts from, and disgruntled members within the football five's next realignment earthquake. The Big East would be waiting with an eye on reabsorbing 2 (or more) former BE teams and/or other private schools potentially discarded by the ff (such as Syracuse, BC, ND, Vandy, WF, Baylor, Duke, Northwestern, etc.). The league would proactively put out informal inquiries (2018-19) with potential candiate schools to advise them of our interest, and potentially have informal exploratory discussions on future directions/options available. Such a post ff shakeup expansion (6-8 years from now) would further enhance BE viability with the networks come TV contract renegotiation time.

Now is a great time for the Big East to strike, proactively, towards securing a bright, productive, and prosperous future.

Why do we need to act because the conference who is battling the A-10 for the rights to be called the 7th best conference is expanding? They are adding a single team to balance their #'s. Big whoop. If we had to expand every time a lower conference changed members we'd be swollen beyond recognition in a decades time.

We aren't battling the AAC, we're battling the B1G, ACC and Big XII.

[NJRedman]

Yeah, it's no strawman. Expecting them to automatically be a top 20 team jumping into the Big East playing half it's conference games at least 2 time zones away is beyond optimistic.

The reason it's a bigger deal for them is because they aren't in a big market, aren't in a fertile recruiting ground and aren't even close to being a geographic fit.

All the arguments for Gonzaga are about them staying as good as they are now forever. Thats unrealistic.

I guess we'll end up needing to agree to disagree on this one, but I don't agree with your position that Gonzaga remaining successful when many of their conference road trips are 2-3 time zones away is beyond optimistic. Conference scheduling would absolutely be adjusted to ensure that Gonzaga could do a two-fer on every road trip (what, four conference road trips a year?). It would seem likely to me that Few would just leave town a day earlier than other schools would when heading to play SJ/SH or whomever. That would cost his student athletes four extra days away from class a year. So what? They already have tutors and special accommodations to help them with their school work while they are in the heat of the season (not implying that they have 'help' like UNC athletes get help. Wink wink, nudge nudge. Know what I mean?). And for the rest of the conference schools, it would be only one trip a year--to Omaha/Spokane, most likely. So those student athletes only miss one extra day of school.

In addition, going from the WCC to the BEast should improve their recruiting (it seems to have for Creighton, and BU/XU fans have made similar comments when they upgraded to the BEast). So they may be reasonably expected to compete with Nova/others for the conference title annually. And Few has more than demonstrated for 10+ years at the helm that the Zags can go on the road, compete with and beat almost anyone in the country. So with access to even better recruits, it's simply not unrealistic to expect that they can maintain a high level. Again, there are no guarantees, but to suggest that a move wwwwaaaaaaaayyyyyyy up in conference quality would hurt recruiting and therefore the talent they can put on the court seems to me to be beyond pessimistic.

I do think the cost of travel for the 'other' sports (everything but Men's BB) is an issue that would of course have to be considered at length. But maybe Gonzaga only joins for BB? Or some other kind of arrangement to minimize travel expenses can be achieved. What's really cool (to me) about all of this with regard to the Big East is that MEN'S BASKETBALL DRIVES THE BUS!!! I absolutely love the fact that football doesn't directly affect the decision-making process. However, in the overall scheme, football is king, and that's why I think our basketball brand needs to be as strong as possible. Inviting Gonzaga strengthens our brand. (And while the institutional fit argument doesn't fly, I would at Wichita St. and/or VCU to strengthen the product as well, but that's another argument).

With regard to 'fertile recruiting ground' arguments, I think adding the Zags would only expand everyone's recruiting ground. With them, each team would be playing on the west coast at least once/year (potentially more if they do a pre-season tourney). I'm of the opinion that most kids want to play close to home so that friends/family can come watch. For the most part. But national TV exposure softens that a bit as does the promise of being reasonably close to home a few times a season. Case in point: One of my daughters is fortunate enough to have many offers to play college volleyball. She ended up choosing a school where my wife and I can see her play with some frequency (four hour drive). If she would have chosen a school much further, we wouldn't get to see her play as much in person due to time/expense. I think that influenced her decision (though she never explicitly said that). So maybe that kid from Seattle that really wanted to go to Xavier ends up going to Xavier (with Gonzaga in the BEast) because he knows his parents will get to see him play in person at least sometimes each season.

And as has been discussed ad nauseum in several threads (about UConn, etc), there aren't a ton of programs who compete at a high level and have that 'institutional fit' that the C7 presidents seemed to value so much four years ago. Gonzaga is absolutely a home run in all aspects, except geography. But many of us think that isn't the insurmountable obstacle that some do. Inviting them isn't desperation, it's a great chance to add another like-minded institution and strengthen the brand at the same time.

1. No one brought up Gonzaga not being able to recruit. Thats a pretty good strawman argument.

2. You can't be BB only. That doesn't exist. Wherever you park your BBall is where you park your olympic sports unless your conference doens't sponsor that sport.

3. I don't see how playing once a year in Spokane will help them recruit west coast players. It's not like it would be easy for a California kids family to come see them play. I live in LA, it's a trek to go up to Seattle let alone Spokane.

[gtmoBlue]

Redman, Herotodus...

Many Big East fans here and elsewhere have rosy blinders on and their perception is rosily perfect as well. Perhaps they are correct, however, It is often wise to be proactive and direct - specifically when the environment is perfect and the outlook is still rosy. It is advisable to act during the good times, in order to extend and prolong such times, rather than waiting until the bloom has fallen from the rose to act.

Expanding to 12 with the Zags and one other (the best available private, up and coming, good fit school) will add more good content (Zags), and bolster the middle teams (up and comer team), to keep the Big East as a top tier league. With 12 teams there is greater likelihood of maintaining 5-7 teams annually in the dance (as covered exhaustively by Bill, JPSchmack, others). More content will hearten the folks at Fox and is a good faith move well in advance of the contract renewal some several years from now.
.

Why do we need to act because the conference who is battling the A-10 for the rights to be called the 7th best conference is expanding? They are adding a single team to balance their #'s. Big whoop. If we had to expand every time a lower conference changed members we'd be swollen beyond recognition in a decades time.

We aren't battling the AAC, we're battling the B1G, ACC and Big XII.

Correctomundo...We are Not reacting, merely taking assertive actions during our good years in order to maintain and preserve our status as a top 3-4 league. We act assertively during our good years to show our TV partner good faith by providing additional quality content, and in doing so strengthen our hand come renegotiation time. Any BE actions and activities are centered around our preservation and growth as a top tier (3-4) conference.

As for the potential FF shakeup ahead, who knows which universities may be affected, left out, or abandoned in a major shakeup. I am merely suggesting to have open channels with universities that fit our criteria best and that could be negatively affected and those (Syracuse) who have openly expressed dissatisfaction with their current affiliation(s). Example: if the Big12 gets raided there may be as many as 5 to 8 "leftover schools". If the ACC gets raided, as many as 11 leftover schools are hanging out to dry. Fertile pickin' grounds in either case.

Sitting back on our haunches is not the best course of action.

[Bill Marsh]

Redman, Herotodus...

Evening guys. Interesting give and take on the Zags. Initially Mr. Marsh was informing us as to the shenanigans of teams moving to the AAC and potentially strengthening that conference. What response, if any, would the BE have. Many comments followed, mainly of the head in the sand "We are fine and nothing needs to change" variety. But change is the only constant. The BE cannot afford to rely on Villanova and Xavier to hold our hands, save our butts, Annually - in perpetuity. Others need to rise as well. In adding a Gonzaga we strengthen such a rise immediately - both in national perception and in conference OOS wins.

Bill and ScienceJay both have put forth great debate as to the merit of adding a Gonzaga to the BE. Agree with both men and their points.

The Big East is currently thriving and in a position of relative strength (#3 this season) as a conference. By many accounts on this and related BE boards there is no necessity to act-grow-expand. The conference is successful and winning, sending record numbers of teams to the dance, is growing its fiscal coffers, and is the envy of many other conferences. "There is no need to expand", no hints of duress, desperation, or malady. AND...the "Round Robin" schedule is "perfect".

Many Big East fans here and elsewhere have rosy blinders on and their perception is rosily perfect as well. Perhaps they are correct, however, It is often wise to be proactive and direct - specifically when the environment is perfect and the outlook is still rosy. It is advisable to act during the good times, in order to extend and prolong such times, rather than waiting until the bloom has fallen from the rose to act.

Expanding to 12 with the Zags and one other (the best available private, up and coming, good fit school) will add more good content (Zags), and bolster the middle teams (up and comer team), to keep the Big East as a top tier league. With 12 teams there is greater likelihood of maintaining 5-7 teams annually in the dance (as covered exhaustively by Bill, JPSchmack, others). More content will hearten the folks at Fox and is a good faith move well in advance of the contract renewal some several years from now.

Take your pick of the potential up & comer group of private and catholic universities. They have often been cited on this board. (Examples: BYU, Dayton, Detroit, Duquesne, Holy Cross, Siena, St. Bonaventure, St. Louis, and others.) Preferrably the one that checks the most boxes of the known criteria and has the potential to benefit from the boost in financial and recruiting windfall that joining the BE will produce. Such a school would not be expected to crash the upper tier (immediately) like Gonzaga would, but would probably need a few years to build up its recruiting to effectively compete with the rest of the conference. As such they would boost our middle tier teams with 1-2 more wins annually and regularly put them (middle tier teams) in NCAA bubble contention.

Moving to a 12 team format is a proactive and a temporary move. Ultimately the conference could expand to 14 after the next shakeup of the football five conferences. There will be outcasts from, and disgruntled members within the football five's next realignment earthquake. The Big East would be waiting with an eye on reabsorbing 2 (or more) former BE teams and/or other private schools potentially discarded by the ff (such as Syracuse, BC, ND, Vandy, WF, Baylor, Duke, Northwestern, etc.). The league would proactively put out informal inquiries (2018-19) with potential candiate schools to advise them of our interest, and potentially have informal exploratory discussions on future directions/options available. Such a post ff shakeup expansion (6-8 years from now) would further enhance BE viability with the networks come TV contract renegotiation time.

Now is a great time for the Big East to strike, proactively, towards securing a bright, productive, and prosperous future.

Why do we need to act because the conference who is battling the A-10 for the rights to be called the 7th best conference is expanding? They are adding a single team to balance their #'s.

We aren't battling the AAC, we're battling the B1G, ACC and Big XII.

The battles that will insure the Big East's future are it the ones against the F5 on the court. It's winning the ratings wars that will insure the conference's long term financial future. The ratings as they are 4 years into this experiment need to improve.

[NJRedman]

Redman, Herotodus...

Evening guys. Interesting give and take on the Zags. Initially Mr. Marsh was informing us as to the shenanigans of teams moving to the AAC and potentially strengthening that conference. What response, if any, would the BE have. Many comments followed, mainly of the head in the sand "We are fine and nothing needs to change" variety. But change is the only constant. The BE cannot afford to rely on Villanova and Xavier to hold our hands, save our butts, Annually - in perpetuity. Others need to rise as well. In adding a Gonzaga we strengthen such a rise immediately - both in national perception and in conference OOS wins.

Bill and ScienceJay both have put forth great debate as to the merit of adding a Gonzaga to the BE. Agree with both men and their points.

The Big East is currently thriving and in a position of relative strength (#3 this season) as a conference. By many accounts on this and related BE boards there is no necessity to act-grow-expand. The conference is successful and winning, sending record numbers of teams to the dance, is growing its fiscal coffers, and is the envy of many other conferences. "There is no need to expand", no hints of duress, desperation, or malady. AND...the "Round Robin" schedule is "perfect".

Many Big East fans here and elsewhere have rosy blinders on and their perception is rosily perfect as well. Perhaps they are correct, however, It is often wise to be proactive and direct - specifically when the environment is perfect and the outlook is still rosy. It is advisable to act during the good times, in order to extend and prolong such times, rather than waiting until the bloom has fallen from the rose to act.

Expanding to 12 with the Zags and one other (the best available private, up and coming, good fit school) will add more good content (Zags), and bolster the middle teams (up and comer team), to keep the Big East as a top tier league. With 12 teams there is greater likelihood of maintaining 5-7 teams annually in the dance (as covered exhaustively by Bill, JPSchmack, others). More content will hearten the folks at Fox and is a good faith move well in advance of the contract renewal some several years from now.

Take your pick of the potential up & comer group of private and catholic universities. They have often been cited on this board. (Examples: BYU, Dayton, Detroit, Duquesne, Holy Cross, Siena, St. Bonaventure, St. Louis, and others.) Preferrably the one that checks the most boxes of the known criteria and has the potential to benefit from the boost in financial and recruiting windfall that joining the BE will produce. Such a school would not be expected to crash the upper tier (immediately) like Gonzaga would, but would probably need a few years to build up its recruiting to effectively compete with the rest of the conference. As such they would boost our middle tier teams with 1-2 more wins annually and regularly put them (middle tier teams) in NCAA bubble contention.

Moving to a 12 team format is a proactive and a temporary move. Ultimately the conference could expand to 14 after the next shakeup of the football five conferences. There will be outcasts from, and disgruntled members within the football five's next realignment earthquake. The Big East would be waiting with an eye on reabsorbing 2 (or more) former BE teams and/or other private schools potentially discarded by the ff (such as Syracuse, BC, ND, Vandy, WF, Baylor, Duke, Northwestern, etc.). The league would proactively put out informal inquiries (2018-19) with potential candiate schools to advise them of our interest, and potentially have informal exploratory discussions on future directions/options available. Such a post ff shakeup expansion (6-8 years from now) would further enhance BE viability with the networks come TV contract renegotiation time.

Now is a great time for the Big East to strike, proactively, towards securing a bright, productive, and prosperous future.

Why do we need to act because the conference who is battling the A-10 for the rights to be called the 7th best conference is expanding? They are adding a single team to balance their #'s.

We aren't battling the AAC, we're battling the B1G, ACC and Big XII.

The battles that will insure the Big East's future are it the ones against the F5 on the court. It's winning the ratings wars that will insure the conference's long term financial future. The ratings as they are 4 years into this experiment need to improve.

And adding a school that would battle with Providence and Butler for lowest enrollments thats at least 2 timezones away from the rest of the conference with the smallest media market in the league is going to help our ratings? How?

[Bill Marsh]

Evening guys. Interesting give and take on the Zags. Initially Mr. Marsh was informing us as to the shenanigans of teams moving to the AAC and potentially strengthening that conference. What response, if any, would the BE have. Many comments followed, mainly of the head in the sand "We are fine and nothing needs to change" variety. But change is the only constant. The BE cannot afford to rely on Villanova and Xavier to hold our hands, save our butts, Annually - in perpetuity. Others need to rise as well. In adding a Gonzaga we strengthen such a rise immediately - both in national perception and in conference OOS wins.

Bill and ScienceJay both have put forth great debate as to the merit of adding a Gonzaga to the BE. Agree with both men and their points.

The Big East is currently thriving and in a position of relative strength (#3 this season) as a conference. By many accounts on this and related BE boards there is no necessity to act-grow-expand. The conference is successful and winning, sending record numbers of teams to the dance, is growing its fiscal coffers, and is the envy of many other conferences. "There is no need to expand", no hints of duress, desperation, or malady. AND...the "Round Robin" schedule is "perfect".

Many Big East fans here and elsewhere have rosy blinders on and their perception is rosily perfect as well. Perhaps they are correct, however, It is often wise to be proactive and direct - specifically when the environment is perfect and the outlook is still rosy. It is advisable to act during the good times, in order to extend and prolong such times, rather than waiting until the bloom has fallen from the rose to act.

Expanding to 12 with the Zags and one other (the best available private, up and coming, good fit school) will add more good content (Zags), and bolster the middle teams (up and comer team), to keep the Big East as a top tier league. With 12 teams there is greater likelihood of maintaining 5-7 teams annually in the dance (as covered exhaustively by Bill, JPSchmack, others). More content will hearten the folks at Fox and is a good faith move well in advance of the contract renewal some several years from now.

Take your pick of the potential up & comer group of private and catholic universities. They have often been cited on this board. (Examples: BYU, Dayton, Detroit, Duquesne, Holy Cross, Siena, St. Bonaventure, St. Louis, and others.) Preferrably the one that checks the most boxes of the known criteria and has the potential to benefit from the boost in financial and recruiting windfall that joining the BE will produce. Such a school would not be expected to crash the upper tier (immediately) like Gonzaga would, but would probably need a few years to build up its recruiting to effectively compete with the rest of the conference. As such they would boost our middle tier teams with 1-2 more wins annually and regularly put them (middle tier teams) in NCAA bubble contention.

Moving to a 12 team format is a proactive and a temporary move. Ultimately the conference could expand to 14 after the next shakeup of the football five conferences. There will be outcasts from, and disgruntled members within the football five's next realignment earthquake. The Big East would be waiting with an eye on reabsorbing 2 (or more) former BE teams and/or other private schools potentially discarded by the ff (such as Syracuse, BC, ND, Vandy, WF, Baylor, Duke, Northwestern, etc.). The league would proactively put out informal inquiries (2018-19) with potential candiate schools to advise them of our interest, and potentially have informal exploratory discussions on future directions/options available. Such a post ff shakeup expansion (6-8 years from now) would further enhance BE viability with the networks come TV contract renegotiation time.

Now is a great time for the Big East to strike, proactively, towards securing a bright, productive, and prosperous future.

Why do we need to act because the conference who is battling the A-10 for the rights to be called the 7th best conference is expanding? They are adding a single team to balance their #'s.

We aren't battling the AAC, we're battling the B1G, ACC and Big XII.

The battles that will insure the Big East's future are it the ones against the F5 on the court. It's winning the ratings wars that will insure the conference's long term financial future. The ratings as they are 4 years into this experiment need to improve.

And adding a school that would battle with Providence and Butler for lowest enrollments thats at least 2 timezones away from the rest of the conference with the smallest media market in the league is going to help our ratings? How?

So I assume you'd also be opposed to adding Duke if they were available? They would also have the lowest undergrad enrollment in the conference except for PC and Butler.