DePaul Attendance Hits 37 Year Low

[MUBoxer]

Exactly what was the hypocritical part?

You don't think it's hypocritical to question DePaul's commitment to basketball when your school has never, ever made the kind of financial investment in basketball that DePaul has in Wintrust Arena?

I mean, if you want to call DePaul stupid, incompetent, loyal to a fault, or anything else along those lines, then I'm right there with you. But not committed? Seriously? In the last 10 years, they've spent ridiculous, stupid amounts of money to lure Oliver Purnell away from Clemson, and they've built a freakin' basketball arena. How on Earth is that not committed? Say what you want about the program and the people in charge of it, but they've put their money where their mouths are.

But this is GoldenWarrior11's MO when it comes to DePaul. Spend 90% of his post rehashing how bad the team is, and then say they're not committed. It's lazy and it's not even remotely accurate. And coming from a fan of a school who seems content to allow Wisconsin taxpayers to pick up a larger tab for their new building than the entire cost of Wintrust Arena, it's more than a little hypocritical.

Uh... Marquette spent $31 million in on the Al McGuire Center in 2002 - a basketball only complex. Marquette is now spending at least, not officially reported, $80 million on a brand new athletics facility on campus (the other $30 million is from Aurora Health Care). Marquette consistently has one of the top basketball budgets in the country, including use of a private jet for recruiting for the coaching staff. My schools not only spends money, it knows how to spend money. What exactly is hypocritical?

Their incompetence, nepotism and stupidity prove that. Their repeated failures in hiring failing coaches prove that. Their insistence on keeping a player's parent on staff for a new coach proves that. Their mandate that they keep relatives on the team of athletic department personnel prove that. Their sham interview process in hiring Leitao, one in which a search firm they paid and utilized for (a former head coach), shows that. The ultimate showing of why DePaul doesn't care about men's basketball? JLP reading off the pillars of the men's program at Leitao's introductory press conference - AND WINNING WASN'T MENTIONED ONCE. DePaul is not committed to a winning men's basketball program, period.

Explain to me how DePaul, at present, is any different from Temple Football from 1991-2004 in the Big East? Temple finished last in the conference year-in and year-out. Their attendance was atrocious. They consistently had 0, 1 or 2 conferences wins every year. They ended up getting kicked out of the conference. In a conference driven by the success of men's basketball, why should nine schools accept that one won't do what is necessary and get rid of the individuals responsible for practically stealing money from the conference and accepting failure every year?

While I agree with you about everything you said you also have to remember that someone needs to lose. Personally I'm happy that the consistent loser still have a top 30 all time tradition. Given media markets and balancing out the east and Midwest who would you replace them with? Your options are Loyola or somehow stealing northwestern. One is even worse than DePaul and the other would be super expensive and (as of now) still have not made the NCAA tournament

[GoldenWarrior11]

I know, Boxer. The problem is with who finishes at the bottom. It has been consistent since their addition as a member, as they have shown that they are unable to compete in the Big East. If they are expected to do no better than 9th every year, then they do not add to the conference's most important sport. We shouldn't want an easy win every year. That is what will ultimately separate us from the P5 leagues. Every member dedicated and committed to strong men's basketball - that was what the conference's goal was when it reorganized.

And I agree we need the Chicago market. However, DePaul doesn't give us that. Their attendance and fan support prove that. DePaul cannot even recruit Chicago well - not in the notion that they get 5* guys every year, but just solid players. Heck, you look at their team this year and they look like a CYO team.

[MUBoxer]

I know, Boxer. The problem is with who finishes at the bottom. It has been consistent since their addition as a member, as they have shown that they are unable to compete in the Big East. If they are expected to do no better than 9th every year, then they do not add to the conference's most important sport. We shouldn't want an easy win every year. That is what will ultimately separate us from the P5 leagues. Every member dedicated and committed to strong men's basketball - that was what the conference's goal was when it reorganized.

And I agree we need the Chicago market. However, DePaul doesn't give us that. Their attendance and fan support prove that. DePaul cannot even recruit Chicago well - not in the notion that they get 5* guys every year, but just solid players. Heck, you look at their team this year and they look like a CYO team.

True that they don't directly bring the Chicago market but I know there are a ton of MU alumni in Chicago and a pretty decent sized amount of X, Butler and Creighton alumni. Having DePaul gives our respective schools a great fundraising and alumni event for them to feel more active. On top of that it gives the schools that are competitive extra advertising in one of the largest markets. As we speak I'm on the EL going past the Fullerton stop where there is a billboard that they update based on who they're playing. They do the same for local tv ads and ads around their campus. Obviously this doesn't negate their dumpster fire of a program but it does help with name recognition amongst urban youths which at least MU has a problem attracting.

As far as recruiting Chicago well that's a different story. They burned the bridge not hiring someons coach and thought that hiring billy garret would repair it, but here we are years later and it hasn't even helped them at Morgan Park's program.

[kayako]

I know, Boxer. The problem is with who finishes at the bottom. It has been consistent since their addition as a member, as they have shown that they are unable to compete in the Big East. If they are expected to do no better than 9th every year, then they do not add to the conference's most important sport. We shouldn't want an easy win every year. That is what will ultimately separate us from the P5 leagues. Every member dedicated and committed to strong men's basketball - that was what the conference's goal was when it reorganized.

B1G says hello. Northwestern, Rutgers, Nebraska, and Penn State are truly garbage. Oregon State in Pac12, TCU in Big 12, Boston College in ACC, and I'm pretty sure the SEC is full of crappy DePaul-bad programs.

DePaul's trying, and the worst case is a pair of easy wins every season. It's not that bad.

[notkirkcameron]

I know, Boxer. The problem is with who finishes at the bottom. It has been consistent since their addition as a member, as they have shown that they are unable to compete in the Big East. If they are expected to do no better than 9th every year, then they do not add to the conference's most important sport. We shouldn't want an easy win every year. That is what will ultimately separate us from the P5 leagues. Every member dedicated and committed to strong men's basketball - that was what the conference's goal was when it reorganized.

And I agree we need the Chicago market. However, DePaul doesn't give us that. Their attendance and fan support prove that. DePaul cannot even recruit Chicago well - not in the notion that they get 5* guys every year, but just solid players. Heck, you look at their team this year and they look like a CYO team.

This is exactly it. It's not that DePaul finishes at the bottom, it's that DePaul pretty much always finishes at the bottom, and is expected to continue finishing at the bottom indefinitely. Even the last three years when Marquette was at a 15-year low (after Buzz Williams nuked the program on his way out the door with repeated recruiting failures), there was still a light at the end of the tunnel and the hope that things would be better sooner rather than later.

At the very least, DePaul have made a once-great rivalry between Marquette and DePaul into little more than an occasion for the Marquette Alumni Club of Chicago to hold a networking event. Marquette and DePaul have been conference mates for 26 consecutive seasons, going back to the Great Midwest days. Marquette has finished above DePaul in the conference standings 20 times in those 26 seasons. MU have gone 39-9 against DePaul since 1992.

DePaul has been a Big East member since 2005-06, the same length of time as Marquette. DePaul have won 41 Big East games; Marquette has won 122. Even worse, despite being given an eight-year head start on the Big East's three most recent additions, DePaul's conference win total has already nearly been matched by Creighton (36 wins) and Butler (38 wins). Xavier already has more Big East wins (42) than DePaul, despite playing 140 fewer Big East games. Assuming Marquette sees its name called on Sunday, each of the other 9 Big East members will have made it to the Tournament at least once in the 4 years since the Reformation. The last time DePaul made the Tournament, the Blue Demons were members of Conference USA. The last time DePaul made it to the second weekend, they were an Independent, and Ronald Reagan was President.

With no wins, no fans, and barely any local media presence, it's not out of line to say that DePaul is dragging down the rest of the league, because it's not an unfair question to ask "What exactly does DePaul bring to this league?"

[cu blujs]

In the dark ages of Creighton basketball, circa 1992-1994, Creighton home attendance was in the neighborhood of 2,000. Many games were witnessed by far fewer than that. As a Jaybacker member and season ticket holder in those days, I had access to a hospitality room at the old Civic, which served a free buffet prior to every home game. There was plenty to eat. That's how hard it was for them to draw anyone down there. No one had to sit in the second level of seating at the old Civic for most games. You didn't need to "mich up" the coach, because you could hear every word of instruction in the huddle and during the game with ease. CU was even seriously contemplating a drop to Division II athletics. Fortunately, some well to do alumni and other civic leaders in Omaha had the foresight to see what a revitalized basketball program could do for the University and for Omaha. The school renewed its commitment to D1 basketball and athletics. They brought in Dana Altman and gave him resources to build the program. He won 7 games his first year with the left over players. For each of the next six years, he won more games than he had the year before. It still took 5 years to get to the NCAAs, but by then attendance was regularly hitting 5 and 6 thousand in the old Civic. 5 years later, we were in a brand spanking new arena and pushing past 10,000 per game. Granted, the impact of Creighton on a city the size of Omaha, is going to be proportionately much greater than the impact of DePaul on the Chicago area. But, there are so many DePaul alum, and so many other people who I think would love to have a local college team not named Illinois to root for, that a strong commitment to winning could easily bring them in. But, you can't recycle retread coaches. You have to commit the resources to a guy that can recruit and can win games. Heck, you don't even have to finish atop the BE every year. Just be competitive and have a chance to be up there every so many years - and make the dance regularly, and the fans will come. It can be done. But, it won't be without a concerted effort.

[GoldenWarrior11]

But really - How is DePaul today different from Temple from Big East Football?

[notkirkcameron]

But really - How is DePaul today different from Temple from Big East Football?

TEMPLE VOTED OUT OF THE BIG EAST
New York Times, March 3, 2001

Temple, the lone football-only school in the Big East, was voted out of the league, effective June 30, 2002, by the seven other schools yesterday.

''The presidents and chancellors of the seven universities of the Big East Conference's I-A football league have voted to discontinue Temple University's membership,'' the Big East spokesman, John Paquette, said.

Temple Board of Trustees chairman Howard Gittis said he planned to appeal to the Big East university presidents.

Big East Commissioner Michael Tranghese said Temple consistently failed to meet criteria unanimously adopted by the members in 1996, like attendance and nonconference scheduling.

Attendance at Temple home games is still the lowest in the Big East, though it has improved to 18,612 last season from an average of 4,045 in 1995.

DePaul NonCon SOS since 2011 (Conference Rank)
2017: 313 (Last)
2016: 236 (6th of 10)
2015: 319 (Last)
2014: 129 (6th out of 10)
2013: 334 (Last)
2012: 332 (15th of 16)
2011: 233 (14th of 16)
Avg. Noncon SOS: 240

DePaul's record vs. RPI Top 100 since 2011
2017: 2-15
2016: 2-13
2015: 5-12
2014: 2-18
2013: 2-15
2012: 2-14
2011: 0-14
Total: 15-101

DePaul Announced Home Attendance since 2011 (Conference Rank)
2016: 5,513 (10th)
2015: 6,238 (10th)
2014: 6,363 (9th, 27 fans ahead of Seton Hall)
2013: 7,681 (8th among current BE members)
2012: 7,740 (8th among current BE members)
2011: 7,676 (8th among current BE members)

In short, it's not that different. You have one school that has consistently proven itself unable to compete with the rest of its conference brethren. The new arena gives DePaul a lifeline. Maybe being in the city helps with fans. Maybe being in a new arena helps with recruiting. But honestly, if we're still having this conversation about how terrible DePaul is in a few years' time, it's going to be time to start talking about whether DePaul would be better served in another conference. I'm sure the Horizon League or the Valley would love to have DePaul.

[ivet]

Not really sure why this thread is still going but I doubt DePaul will ever be booted out of the conference regardless of how terrible they continue to be. Fact is, someone has to be on the bottom of the league and better DePaul than your team right? They are in Chicago, have a large alumni base, aside from their mens bball team all their other sports are fairly competitive especially women's basketball. Other schools do not have to worry about them taking a local kid, if anything it actually helps them recruit Chicago area kids because they can say your family will still be able to see them at least once a year. If anything, they are the most consistent team in the Big East. They have the money, they just have a horrible AD but that's a can of worms I would rather not open up. 4 years ago the other 6 schools could have decided to leave DePaul behind but they didn't. Hell DePaul was instrumental in convincing Georgetown to add Creighton to the conference. Anyways we got it, DePaul is horrible and will most likely be for the next decade.

[HoopDreams]

All valid points and there is no disputing the numbers in terms of record the last 10 years. I will say that a lot of college athletics is cyclical and programs go through rough spots. Looking back, the Big East's decision to vote out Temple probably neither helped or hurt the leagues overall brand. The one thing they did lose is a very strong basketball program (#5 in all time school wins) and consistent in getting to the NCAAs.

The new Big East is still very young. Something the league is definitely lacking is natural rivalries. This will come with time and believe it or not DePaul and Marquette still share a natural hatred for each other. Breaking ties with DePaul this early in a newly constructed Big East probably doesn't make too much sense. DePaul does have history... 2 Final Fours, 3 Elite 8's, 10 Sweet Sixteens, and 22 Tourney Appearances, which is better or comparable to every team in the league. There is no other school with this history (and that is Catholic) located in the 3rd largest media market.

I think time will tell, 15 or 20 years from now things can be completely different. It's important that the identity of the Big East remain the same. It should be private basketball only schools in large media markets. If you're constantly changing teams in a conference because of performance its more difficult building history and rivalries. It really just creates more instability. The arena is a big investment and step forward for the program. We will have a new President this summer and with that a new AD. From there a lot of work will need to be done.