Number of Top 100 players to non-football schools

[GumbyDamnit!]

Honestly Stever, what are you talking about? Can you please (for once) present FACTS and not some data points that you have messaged.

1). Distance from Boston to DC = 450 miles ( the prime recruiting area that I referred to originally)
2). Distance from Lubbock, TX to Houston, TX = 570 miles (we can just just ignore that TX from a sq. miles standpoint is much bigger than the other two)
3). Distance from Tallahassee to Miami = 470 miles

ESPN 2015 Class Top 100 in those areas:
1). 20
2). 9
3). 8

2014:
1). 18
2). 7
3). 5

2013:
1). 19
2). 9
3). 5

2012:
1). 19
2). 12
3). 1

Would you like me to keep going?

I will give you the same chance I gave you when you claimed that the AAC had a better chance of getting 5 teams into the dance than the BE did... After looking at the empirical data I presented, do you want to amend your statement or remain pat and lose credibility?

[stever20]

Honestly Stever, what are you talking about? Can you please (for once) present FACTS and not some data points that you have messaged.

1). Distance from Boston to DC = 450 miles ( the prime recruiting area that I referred to originally)
2). Distance from Lubbock, TX to Houston, TX = 570 miles (we can just just ignore that TX from a sq. miles standpoint is much bigger than the other two)
3). Distance from Tallahassee to Miami = 470 miles

ESPN 2015 Class Top 100 in those areas:
1). 20
2). 9
3). 8

2014:
1). 18
2). 7
3). 5

2013:
1). 19
2). 9
3). 5

2012:
1). 19
2). 12
3). 1

Would you like me to keep going?

I will give you the same chance I gave you when you claimed that the AAC had a better chance of getting 5 teams into the dance than the BE did... After looking at the empirical data I presented, do you want to amend your statement or remain pat and lose credibility?

Did you read what I said- I said that of Texas 10 guys- 9 were within 100 miles of Dallas and the 10th is Houston...

Also if you are counting everyone from NY and VA- you are counting guys from Rochester NY and Norfolk VA. That makes the NE a whole hell of a lot more than 450 miles..... 2 of the 4 Virginia kids are from Virginia Beach and down near the NC border near Danville. 2 of the NY kids are from Rochester and up near Kingston. There aren't 20 top 100 players from Boston to DC on a straight line. Period.

And I'm not the only one who says that basketball in some parts isn't what it used to be. http://www.wsj.com/articles/is-new-york ... 1423879658

It's much more mid atlantic now than before. That's a big change..

[Bill Marsh]

Honestly Stever, what are you talking about? Can you please (for once) present FACTS and not some data points that you have messaged.

1). Distance from Boston to DC = 450 miles ( the prime recruiting area that I referred to originally)
2). Distance from Lubbock, TX to Houston, TX = 570 miles (we can just just ignore that TX from a sq. miles standpoint is much bigger than the other two)
3). Distance from Tallahassee to Miami = 470 miles

ESPN 2015 Class Top 100 in those areas:
1). 20
2). 9
3). 8

2014:
1). 18
2). 7
3). 5

2013:
1). 19
2). 9
3). 5

2012:
1). 19
2). 12
3). 1

Would you like me to keep going?

I will give you the same chance I gave you when you claimed that the AAC had a better chance of getting 5 teams into the dance than the BE did... After looking at the empirical data I presented, do you want to amend your statement or remain pat and lose credibility?

Nicely played, Sir.

[Bill Marsh]

thing is look at Georgetown's roster this year:
SC 1
DC 1
MD 2
Ind 1
NJ 1
NC 1
TX 1
Ill 1
FL 3
WA 1
PA 1

9 folks from SC, Indiana, North Carolina, Texas, Illinois, Florida, and Washington(state). Only 5 from DC, Maryland, New Jersey, and PA.

That's not NE and Mid-Atlantic. More from Florida than any other place. This year's class a bit better- 3 guys- 1 from NY, 1 from Fairfax VA(a suburb of DC), and then the 3rd though from down in Martinsville,VA(down near the VA/NC border).

Bottom line- especially NE basketball isn't what it was even 10 years ago. The state of NY had 7 4 star or better recruits. NJ- 8. CT- 2. MA-5.

If anything things have shifted more towards the mid-atlantic. PA with 6, MD with 5, VA with 6. WV with 2. So NE with only 22, mid atlantic with 19. That's great for Georgetown(and NOVA)- but for SH, SJ, and PC- they need the NE to get back where it used to be.

I don't know what this even means. A snap shot in time is meaningless. There are ups and downs. Long term trends matter, not short term fluctuations.

What would be the basis for thinking that basketball talent in the Northeast is declining? The population isn't going down. The sport isn't getting less popular. So . . . .

[billyjack]

A while ago i read some books on Edward Bernays. He was the first "propagandist", from the early 1900's. I'm not in the field of public relations or marketing, but I've always been really fascinated looking at how these people try to sway public opinion of consumers or voters.

There are very complex techniques from what I understand, but the simple basic structure includes:
1. Come up with figures or thoughts that are untrue or misleading, and repeat them 1000 times.
2. State these untruths and weak opinions with an unshakeable degree of authority and certainty. Use words like "never", "impossible", "frankly", "it just won't", "it's just not going to happen", "won't ever happen".
3. Lace these statements with calling people "idiots" for not agreeing with blatant untruths. Say stuff like "you must not have followed [whatever topic] for a long time if you feel this way". Get people to doubt themselves. The Alan Dershowitz technique.
4. And the key... repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, etc, forever, no matter how discredited you are, no matter how illogical your reasoning. Never, never, never admit you're wrong. Have no shame.

With voters and consumers it can be extremely effective. They're so busy that they can only skim headines.

Anyway, which takes us to the small universe at the Holy Land...

Our resident pessimist, Stever, whether he knows it or not, touches on the techniques of Edward Bernays. His problem is that he's trying to convince high-information college basketball fans on this site to believe blatant untruths. But members here aren't voters or consumers who avoid delving into the depths of tragic daily headlines like the Nepal Earthquake or the Baltimore Situation. People here visit this site because most of us (including BE fans, plus VCU, Dayton, Cincinnati and Saint Louis fans, even St Bonaventure fans) dive headfirst into college hoops news and eat it for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

My biggest source of confusion is what is his motivation? What cause does it serve to, say, just completely lie about northeastern recruiting grounds? Or lie or mislead about countless other topics, never apologize for being wrong, and continue doing this for months upon months upon months? Maybe he's doing a college paper on propaganda and we're his test subjects? Maybe he works for a political think tank and he's practicing on us? We're his lab rats? I want to understand... i am here to learn...

[Bill Marsh]

If you are going into Virginia and West Virginia- that's not really the Northeast at all. Even Maryland isn't really considered the NE at all. Going from PA up in 2016- only 11 from PA going up. Used to be you would see at least 15-20 easily. Population trends change.

I'm sorry- but the NE isn't what it used to be in recruiting. You say what area of the country that has the same amount of HS talent. How about the state of Florida. They have 10 top 100 players. Texas has 10 top 100 players- with 9 within 100 miles of Dallas(and the 10th only in Houston). That's both way more concentrated then the entire NE.

The NE may not be a terrible geographic area, but it's not special like it used to be. Times change. Like instead of being great it's just very good now.

Just compare Georgetown's roster now to 1985.
roster had 6 guys drafted into the pros....
Ewing- MA
Martin- DC
Wingate- MD
Jackson- VA
Dalton- MD
Williams- MD

Nova had 6 guys drafted
Pickney NY
McClain MA
McClain MA
Pressley CT
Everson NY
Jensen CT

St John's- had
Mullin NY
Jackson NY
Berry NY
Wennington QC
Glass NJ(the wiki page i'm looking at doesn't have the draftees for St John's but I think he got drafted).
Jones NY

So 3 teams made the final 4- and the only one that wasn't really local that got drafted was Wennington all the way up in Montreal(and even there).

The league is shifting. It's not going to just be NE totally anywhere near what it used to be. With 5 MW schools now- that's changed.

It seems to me that anyone can cherry pick whatever he wants to make a point. Let's look at the Big East just 2 years after that historic 1985 Final Four, shifting to 1987 when 2 BE teams made the Final Four. I'll add conference champion, Georgetown, who made the Elite 8 that year. Here are those 3 teams' starting rosters:

GEORGETOWN

Reggie Williams - Georgetown
Perry McDonald - New Orleans
Dwayne Bryant - New Orleans
Mark Tillmon - Washington, DC
Ben Gillery - Detroit

SYRACUSE

Derrick Coleman - Detroit
Rony Seikaly - Athens, Greece
Sherman Douglas - Washington, DC
Greg Monroe - Rochester, NY
Howard Triche - Syracuse, NY

PROVIDENCE

Billy Donovan - Rockville Centre, NY
Delray Brooks - Michigan City, Indiana
Pop Lewis - Germantown, PA
Dave Kipfer - Kitchener, ON, Canada
Steve Wright - Syracuse, NY

All of these teams were built with multiple starters from outside the Northeast. If I wanted to judge by a single snapshot, I could draw very different conclusions than you did while looking at 3 teams from the same era.

You are drawing conclusions about high school talent in the Northeast based on college rosters, which isn't valid anyway. The fact that Northeast colleges are recruiting players from outside the Northeast simply means that they have expanded their recruiting territories. Recruiting is more national everywhere theses days. Schools from outside the Northeast are coming into this region and recruiting NE players to their schools as well.

[gosports1]

if the Norhteast is becoming devoid of talent why do so many conferences want to hold their championships in NYC? Can someone please tell the ACC and BIG about the lack of talent in NYC so the BE can keep the Garden for itself.
Thanks

[GumbyDamnit!]

Did you read what I said- I said that of Texas 10 guys- 9 were within 100 miles of Dallas and the 10th is Houston...

Also if you are counting everyone from NY and VA- you are counting guys from Rochester NY and Norfolk VA. That makes the NE a whole hell of a lot more than 450 miles..... 2 of the 4 Virginia kids are from Virginia Beach and down near the NC border near Danville. 2 of the NY kids are from Rochester and up near Kingston. There aren't 20 top 100 players from Boston to DC on a straight line. Period.

Oh, I read what you said. You included one year's worth of players and are trying to stretch that to fit your argument. And for the record, no I didn't include the guys from Hampton, VA Beach, Richmond etc. I stopped at metro DC (Fairfax, VA, etc.), even thought we both know that the Hampton VA Beach area is a hotbed of talent, and only a couple hours south of G'twon. I also didn't include kids from Western PA as that is more Midwest than the NE.

So you want me to take all of TWO recruits (Thomas Bryant and DuJuan Coleman) from the past 4 years out from Rochester, even though it is a shorter distance for every NE BE coach to travel to Rochester (less than 400 miles even for JTIII) than it was for the coaches at Texas Tech to visit the Harrison Twins (533 miles) when they were being recruited? Well you certainly got me there Stever20. So let's just do that anyway so you don't think I'm trying to massage the data. So when I take out the 2 guys, the total over the past 4 recruiting classes combined is 74 in the NE and 37 in TX. Um... you do understand that represents a 2x difference, right?

C'mon man you are starting to embarrass yourself holding on to your weak argument. This is like deja vu' with some of the points you were making about the AAC and BE being comparable conferences. Just stop already.

[GumbyDamnit!]

My biggest source of confusion is what is his motivation? What cause does it serve to, say, just completely lie about northeastern recruiting grounds? Or lie or mislead about countless other topics, never apologize for being wrong, and continue doing this for months upon months upon months? Maybe he's doing a college paper on propaganda and we're his test subjects? Maybe he works for a political think tank and he's practicing on us? We're his lab rats? I want to understand... i am here to learn...

The questions of the year from BillyJack!

[R Jay]

Honestly, I think we should all just put stever on the foe list and never respond to him. And then repeat the process with any new sockpuppets he creates. Or better yet, his IP address could be banned.