The Villanova Football Problem...

[NovaBall]

Other reasons for the timing of this discussion include:

-. Most realize that the ship to join fbs level football has sailed, so it is now time to re-evaluate the merits on overspending for football. In the past some held out hope that high level fcs football could be converted to fbs football if someone came calling. Many people are happy with the present big east situation and no longer see this as a concern.

And

-. Andy Talley is now 72 yrs old. It's been a long standing thought that the status quo would exist as long as he was in charge (he's been coach for 30 years), but once he is gone then the program could be de-emphasized.


And from people I know who are connected with the program, this is not a new concept and the situation is being evaluated.

[Letsgonova]

For the other BE fans reading this mess, there is absolutely zero discussion of dropping or deemphasizing football at VIllanova. Zero. This is all in ball's head. Does anyone really believe Villanova is about to build a $15M practice facility for a sport they are considering dropping? Oh, what's that? It's $15M, not $50M as ball claims? And entirely donor supported by football donors, including a $10M gift by the father of a current player?

But wait! There are more lies and misleading statements to debunk!

By "it" we are talking about
-. $6.5 mill operating budget for a sport that draws under a million in revenue - it's actually $6.2M in expenses. Revenues aren't published, so no idea where ball pulled the revenue figure from. It is, however, important to note that actual operating expenses are only $1.2M - the balance is scholarship costs, which are obviously not cash outlays. The marginal cost of admitting 63 more people is non-zero, but it also isn't $4M. Another misleading stat from ball.
-. Very poor fan attendance (under 2,000 fans for home playoff games) - Villanova averaged 6200 home fans in the regular season, and 5360 overall with two home playoff games. Not the best in the country, but also not "very poor".
-. Concerns about underfunding of lacrosse and soccer right now - concerns from whom? You can't cite yourself.
-. Open discussions among much of the villanova community about the benefits of the patriot league over the Colonial - as you yourself have documented on the Villanova, the Patriot league football program expenses are rapidly approaching the average CAA schools. So, how is this evidence of anything?
-. A disdain among the villanova community about the product being placed on the field for such an exorbitant cost at a level of the sport without much competition. Again, tell the thousands who come out to games each week in the fall and the donors who are spending millions of their own dollars that they "disdain" the program. As for the lack of competition, you reveal your lack of knowledge with a statement like that.
-. A concern that Villanova is about to blow tens of millions of dollars on a football practice facility while basketball is being told it has to "wait it's turn" for a much needed pavilion renovation. Pretty sure we covered that above. Show me evidence that the donors who funded the football facility would have instead donated to the Pavilion renovation, and we'll talk. Or, it could just be that the Pavilion renovation is a much bigger project and is taking longer to fundraise. Nope, must be those darn footballers.

In summary, ladies and gentlemen, this guy is a dangerous combination of: a person with very little direct knowledge of anything he's talking about; a penchant for stirring the pot; a law degree and--from what I can tell--not much actual legal work; and a desperate, desperate need for attention. I urge you all to consider anything and everything he says in that light.

[Hoyas]

For the other BE fans reading this mess, there is absolutely zero discussion of dropping or deemphasizing football at VIllanova. Zero. This is all in ball's head. Does anyone really believe Villanova is about to build a $15M practice facility for a sport they are considering dropping? Oh, what's that? It's $15M, not $50M as ball claims? And entirely donor supported by football donors, including a $10M gift by the father of a current player?

But wait! There are more lies and misleading statements to debunk!

By "it" we are talking about
-. $6.5 mill operating budget for a sport that draws under a million in revenue - it's actually $6.2M in expenses. Revenues aren't published, so no idea where ball pulled the revenue figure from. It is, however, important to note that actual operating expenses are only $1.2M - the balance is scholarship costs, which are obviously not cash outlays. The marginal cost of admitting 63 more people is non-zero, but it also isn't $4M. Another misleading stat from ball.
-. Very poor fan attendance (under 2,000 fans for home playoff games) - Villanova averaged 6200 home fans in the regular season, and 5360 overall with two home playoff games. Not the best in the country, but also not "very poor".
-. Concerns about underfunding of lacrosse and soccer right now - concerns from whom? You can't cite yourself.
-. Open discussions among much of the villanova community about the benefits of the patriot league over the Colonial - as you yourself have documented on the Villanova, the Patriot league football program expenses are rapidly approaching the average CAA schools. So, how is this evidence of anything?
-. A disdain among the villanova community about the product being placed on the field for such an exorbitant cost at a level of the sport without much competition. Again, tell the thousands who come out to games each week in the fall and the donors who are spending millions of their own dollars that they "disdain" the program. As for the lack of competition, you reveal your lack of knowledge with a statement like that.
-. A concern that Villanova is about to blow tens of millions of dollars on a football practice facility while basketball is being told it has to "wait it's turn" for a much needed pavilion renovation. Pretty sure we covered that above. Show me evidence that the donors who funded the football facility would have instead donated to the Pavilion renovation, and we'll talk. Or, it could just be that the Pavilion renovation is a much bigger project and is taking longer to fundraise. Nope, must be those darn footballers.

In summary, ladies and gentlemen, this guy is a dangerous combination of: a person with very little direct knowledge of anything he's talking about; a penchant for stirring the pot; a law degree and--from what I can tell--not much actual legal work; and a desperate, desperate need for attention. I urge you all to consider anything and everything he says in that light.

so he pulled all that info out of his arse? Gotcha. Just like I thought.

one thing to remember as well- The money you get for the FBS game. Last year vs Syracuse, this year vs UConn. The going rates on those games are pretty high- like mid 6 figures at least. That's something that is gone if you drop down to the patriot where they have scollie numbers less than the general FCS.

[NovaBall]

LetsgoNova is being disingenuous if he claims that this is not the #1 hot button topic among the villanova community right now. LGN spends half his day arguing with other posters besides me about the merits of villanova football, without much convincing to them either.

He is also giving bogus data.
Example:
Attendance number is about as accurate as depaul claiming they draw 9k per game. The school fudges the numbers, but can't pull that funny math off for playoff games (drew about 2k for each of our biggest home games in the yr), a more telling sign of the program.

Claiming that the football facility is from private football donors. Only 20% of that facility will be from football donation. The rest is coming right out of basketball's revenue (which should be used for the pavilion renovation)

The part about the villanova community not having disdain about the level of play and the lack of performance. The attendance and the lack of interest back up my claim. Nobody cares about the opponents we play, and in fcs there are only a dozen or so fully funded programs, so only making the playoffs 6 times in the last 17 years isn't exactly the results we should be getting for the money we spend.


Like I said, lgn knows that this is THE #1 issue at villanova right now. And he's desperately trying to brush it under the rug.

[Letsgonova]

Claiming that the football facility is from private football donors. Only 20% of that facility will be from football donation. The rest is coming right out of basketball's revenue (which should be used for the pavilion renovation)

It is a $15M facility. Just the one donor is giving $10M, and there are others. I know you are more of an arts & leisure kind of guy, but c'mon, 20%? You are making yourself look foolish here.

[Phillycat]

Ball can you please take the football shit back to benchwarmers and stick to basketball here? Hoops is in the site name for Christ's sake... I'd rather hear about how Fran builds champions at Temple or how FS1 has crystal clear HD. Can we get a mod to shut this thread down? Otherwise this will be a common occurrence here as he just does this to screw with people that will argue with him.

[cm5yz6]

Ball can you please take the football shit back to benchwarmers and stick to basketball here? Hoops is in the site name for Christ's sake... I'd rather hear about how Fran builds champions at Temple or how FS1 has crystal clear HD. Can we get a mod to shut this thread down? Otherwise this will be a common occurrence here as he just does this to screw with people that will argue with him.

Can we lock this thread and move it to the non-bball board?

[ChestRockwell85]

BRIAN WESTBROOK.....

DROPS MIC.

[NovaBall]

If I were a fan of another big east school, this would concern me. All the big east schools should be putting for maximum effort into basketball. Yes, nova is hot right now on the hardwood, but at the end of the day they are using 40% of their basketball revenue to fund a sport that doesn't even compete in the big east. Is that the proper thing for nova to be doing? Essentially their entire fox revenue is being stolen from basketball and handed to a football program while basketball's on campus arena remains neglected.

[Letsgonova]

See how he moves the goalpost? You'll notice that's a pattern.