Holy Land fan poll - who finishes in 6th this season?

[GumbyDamnit!]

These "rank the teams" polls remind me of Presidential Primaries where the candidates absolutely rip into each other for 3 months and then, when done, hug and start ripping the other side (A10/AAC) collectively. So after the SJU-SHU fan bloodletting we can look forward to the "SHU Frosh are better than a Cotton-less PC team" and a the "PC, G'twn and X all lost their lead guards, so this team is better than that," and the "Nova is so overrated...last year was a fluke," threads. This is always a good show.

[gosports1]

These "rank the teams" polls remind me of Presidential Primaries where the candidates absolutely rip into each other for 3 months and then, when done, hug and start ripping the other side (A10/AAC) collectively. So after the SJU-SHU fan bloodletting we can look forward to the "SHU Frosh are better than a Cotton-less PC team" and a the "PC, G'twn and X all lost their lead guards, so this team is better than that," and the "Nova is so overrated...last year was a fluke," threads. This is always a good show.

Its because we are all "like family" We can pick on our little brother and fight with each other, but if the kid down the street tries to do the same, we will kick his ass!

[Wizard of Westroads]

SJ may disappoint and finish 6th, but I think the Johnnies also have the potential to finish as high as 2nd. I don't think the Hall has as high a ceiling.

It's great to read on these threads how much everyone sucks. Maybe DePaul really can avoid the cellar!

[NJRedman]

Seton Hall had 6 losses by 5 points or less.
St John's had 4 such losses.

Seton Halls avg loss looks bad because of 3 16 or 17 pt losses.

A select few years would be 4 or 5. But 25 years is a long time now.

Also- just look last 13 years...
St John's- 6 losing seasons, 3 more years where they finished 1 game over .500. 2 NCAA spots
Seton Hall- 5 losing seasons, 1 at .500 and 1 2 games over .500. 2 NCAA spots

I'm sorry- but there isn't that much difference in 2014. So to say St John's if they weren't in the tourney they were on the bubble is frankly a joke. Here's the St John's records when they were out of the tourney but with a winning record- 16-13, 16-15, 17-15, 16-15, 20-12. Only last year was a 20 win team, and they were hardly a bubble team end of the year- and that's the only year they were even remotely in the discussion. St John's is nothing right now but a tarnished brand quite frankly. Last 13 years, St John's is 199-207. Seton Hall is 211-194. In BE play, St John's is 85-137 in that time. Seton Hall is 89-133 in that time frame.

St John's being so mediocre is a major problem in the conference right now. We need St John's to be great. They are a flagship program. Seton Hall isn't. St John's shouldn't be 4 games worse than Seton Hall over a 13 year period in pretty much EVER.

Hahaha you're such a troll it isn't even funny.

Seton Hall had more close losses because...get this...THEY HAD MORE LOSSES IN GENERAL! We actually WON more games and in fact only two teams in the Big East had more conference wins than us. But yeah you're right we weren't even in the discussion for the NCAA thats why we were the #1 overall seed in the NIT.

Also why pick the last 13 years and not a nice round number like the last 10 or 15? Why 13? Oh because it fits your argument!

[billyjack]

How can St John's of 2014 be considered "hardly on the bubble" when their RPI was in the low 50's going into the BET...?

[NJRedman]

How can St John's of 2014 be considered "hardly on the bubble" when their RPI was in the low 50's going into the BET...?

Because he's a troll who doesn't like that I call him out on his BS so he tries to down play SJU whenever he can.

[stever20]

How can St John's of 2014 be considered "hardly on the bubble" when their RPI was in the low 50's going into the BET...?

Come selection Sunday, St John's had 0 chance of getting selected. But even if you give St John's that- that's the only time last 13 years they were even close to being in the discussion. The other years they were 16-13 16-15 17-15 and 16-15. None of those records now have any shot of getting selected.

Bottom line- there shouldn't be a period where St Johns is so mediocre. And, St John's has been nothing but mediocre for a long time now.

But let's go last 10 since you want to go to a nice round number...
St John's 5 losing years, 3 others with 1 win over .500, 1 NCAA spot, 1 even close to the bubble.
Seton Hall 4 losing years, 1 .500 season, 1 NCAA spot, 2 others with at least 19 wins.

To act like St John's is this special program right now- it just isn't. And that's the biggest problem with the Big East right now. St John's needs to be special, something they just aren't right now. Since Carnesecca left St John's, they've been to the NCAA tourney 6 times and won 5 games. That's in 22 years now. It's pretty darn easy to play down SJU right now because well in the last 22 years- they haven't been special. They just haven't.

[SJHooper]

Hardly on the bubble? Um…we were the hottest team in the country down the stretch leading up to the tourney and experts had us most likely in if we beat PC in the first round of the BET. It came down to the last game. We were not hardly on the bubble, we barely missed the tourney. The season before we were also on ESPN where experts said we were a team to watch on the bubble. That season we were more "barely on the bubble", but hey at least we were in the discussion.

That's my point. Even in the years we don't make it at least we have people saying "hey they are a bubble team". Of course that's not the goal, but it's much better than being totally irrelevant. I'm speaking from the total program perspective when I say SJ is in a different class. The Yankees of the 80's sucked. The Yankees of the late 90's were amazing. SJ of the 80's was amazing. SJ of the 2010's has been nothing special aside from 2011. That doesn't mean you can throw out the 80's. SHU has no famous NBA alumni. We have Mark Jackson, Chris Mullin, Malik Sealy, Ron Artest, etc. This is why I say it's a different program. There are virtually no Seton Hall fans. If you are in the NYC area no one will ask you how Seton Hall is doing, but when I'm on the trains and subways in the city or just in the tri-state area in general wearing SJ gear, people always stop me and talk about them asking how they are doing. I even had a guy stop me in Florida. When St. John's beat G'Town by 20 points last season our official bar (Stout NYC) had a wait of 15 minutes just to get in because it was so packed. And that's in a year we didn't even make the tourney. I just can't see the same happening for SHU.

I agree though we need to start pulling our end of the weight to keep this conference respectable. We have lots of talent and experience and can easily make the tourney but we can also easily miss it. One thing is for sure though: if we don't make the NCAA tourney this year, Lavin must go…no questions asked. If we don't make it then that means our players have not progressed at all even as JR's and SR's. He is also scaring all of us with the recruiting now which used to be his strong suit. He doesn't seem to be getting any commitments and now we have to compete with UK for some of them.

[Amase2]

Hardly on the bubble? Um…we were the hottest team in the country down the stretch leading up to the tourney and experts had us most likely in if we beat PC in the first round of the BET. It came down to the last game. We were not hardly on the bubble, we barely missed the tourney. The season before we were also on ESPN where experts said we were a team to watch on the bubble. That season we were more "barely on the bubble", but hey at least we were in the discussion.

That's my point. Even in the years we don't make it at least we have people saying "hey they are a bubble team". Of course that's not the goal, but it's much better than being totally irrelevant. I'm speaking from the total program perspective when I say SJ is in a different class. The Yankees of the 80's sucked. The Yankees of the late 90's were amazing. SJ of the 80's was amazing. SJ of the 2010's has been nothing special aside from 2011. That doesn't mean you can throw out the 80's. SHU has no famous NBA alumni. We have Mark Jackson, Chris Mullin, Malik Sealy, Ron Artest, etc. This is why I say it's a different program. There are virtually no Seton Hall fans. If you are in the NYC area no one will ask you how Seton Hall is doing, but when I'm on the trains and subways in the city or just in the tri-state area in general wearing SJ gear, people always stop me and talk about them asking how they are doing. I even had a guy stop me in Florida. When St. John's beat G'Town by 20 points last season our official bar (Stout NYC) had a wait of 15 minutes just to get in because it was so packed. And that's in a year we didn't even make the tourney. I just can't see the same happening for SHU.

I agree though we need to start pulling our end of the weight to keep this conference respectable. We have lots of talent and experience and can easily make the tourney but we can also easily miss it. One thing is for sure though: if we don't make the NCAA tourney this year, Lavin must go…no questions asked. If we don't make it then that means our players have not progressed at all even as JR's and SR's. He is also scaring all of us with the recruiting now which used to be his strong suit. He doesn't seem to be getting any commitments and now we have to compete with UK for some of them.

Constantly bashing the hall does not help our program. Virtually no fans? Come on man, Have you seen sju's attendance the past decade? Whats worse, having no fans? or having fans that dont show up? Like ive said before, we are much more similar than we are different.

And btw, the Yankees won more games in the 80's than any other team in the MLB.

[billyjack]

How can St John's of 2014 be considered "hardly on the bubble" when their RPI was in the low 50's going into the BET...?

Come selection Sunday, St John's had 0 chance of getting selected. But even if you give St John's that- that's the only time last 13 years they were even close to being in the discussion. The other years they were 16-13 16-15 17-15 and 16-15. None of those records now have any shot of getting selected.

Bottom line- there shouldn't be a period where St Johns is so mediocre. And, St John's has been nothing but mediocre for a long time now.

But let's go last 10 since you want to go to a nice round number...
St John's 5 losing years, 3 others with 1 win over .500, 1 NCAA spot, 1 even close to the bubble.
Seton Hall 4 losing years, 1 .500 season, 1 NCAA spot, 2 others with at least 19 wins.

To act like St John's is this special program right now- it just isn't. And that's the biggest problem with the Big East right now. St John's needs to be special, something they just aren't right now. Since Carnesecca left St John's, they've been to the NCAA tourney 6 times and won 5 games. That's in 22 years now. It's pretty darn easy to play down SJU right now because well in the last 22 years- they haven't been special. They just haven't.

I don't have the energy to argue with you today, but...
- St John's in 2014 was a bubble team til the BET.
- St John's in 2013 was "in" til late Feb when Harrison got suspended.
- St John's in 2012 easily made the NCAA's.
- St John's and Seton Hall are recognized by everyone as the top 2 programs in metro NY.
- Louisiana State football lost at home to Mississippi State last night, a devastating loss that has ended their season... go cry with your buddies on your fanboard over there.