If Big East Wants to Reach its Ultimate Potential, then.....

[notkirkcameron]

Conveniently excluding wins and losses...I like it! Very good method of comparing these 2 programs. DePaul has not just been bad, they have been THE worst. They have made the Mets look good by comparison. And that's not even an exaggeration. I want DePaul to do well but the truth is they would not be in a major conference today if they were re-done. St. John's still could be. Much more hype, MSG, the better tradition, the more notable former players, the much better recruits, etc.

Let's not let the 7th winningest program in D-1 basketball history get any credit. You can talk about dates all you want, but it counts for all teams. You can't argue that Yankee Stadium allows lots of HR's and gives the Yanks an edge, because the opponent has the same opportunity. Same with going back in time to evaluate programs. Every team has those years from 30+ years ago that helped boost their NCAA tourney appearances and other achievements. Do we not count it because it happened before we were born? The Yankees would not be all that amazing if you use that logic. You'd miss about 23 championships that way.

Do you realize most people don't even know DePaul exists? It's true. Ask any common fan to rattle off Big East teams. Villanova, Georgetown, Marquette, Seton Hall, Creighton, Butler, Providence, Xavier, St. John's and.....crap what's that other team? I know it may come off as harsh but it's true.

No one with their head on straight considers SJ and DePaul comparable programs either overall or recently. Their buzz is zero.

They have 18 tourney appearances. SJ has 28 and could easily have had 30 by now barring the suspension of key players when on the bubble. SJ also has almost 400 more wins.

But let's not let that get in the way. Yup. St. John's is the last place team every year and has zero buzz.

So.....do any other posters think this emperor already knows he's not wearing any clothes, or is that realization coming later?

[Hall2012]

Hey I found another connection! Their fan bases are both delusional enough to think they're the most important program to the future of the Big East (supported by comments in this thread- and many other threads for SJU).

[SJHooper]

Hey I found another connection! Their fan bases are both delusional enough to think they're the most important program to the future of the Big East (supported by comments in this thread- and many other threads for SJU).

That's false. I never claimed that. G'Town, Nova, and Marquette are most important. But SJ comes in 4th. And it's hard to make a case against that. You have a team in Jersey, a team in Rhode Island, a team in Chicago that has not been a factor since I can remember, a team in Nebraska, a team in Indiana, a team in Ohio, etc. Why is it a stretch to say the NYC team is much more important based on market alone? As I've said before: NYC is a giant magnifying glass. If you do good here you are seen as great. If you do mediocre it's seen as bad and if you do bad it's seen as terrible. That's why they say if you can make it here you can make it anywhere.

I find this hilarious coming from a Hall fan. Are you angry that you are on the outskirts of NYC so close you can touch it, but still in Jersey? I'd be mad too. Can't really blame ya there. You better hope your new recruiting class works out as planned is all I have to say. You guys have 9 NCAA appearances...that is mid major level. If there's any fans who can't talk it's DePaul and Seton Hall fans. Oh the irony. Two of the worst programs telling us we aren't that good. Cute.

You found a connection you say? I think I found a very strong one: the anti-St. John's bias on this forum. We are a program that you guys love to hate for whatever reason. It's hilarious that there's even a debate between SJ and SHU/DePaul in terms of better overall programs. This is not even up for debate. It's a finished answer: yes SJ is easily better even with all the down years recently.

The only teams that are clearly more accomplished than SJ at the major level in our conference are: Nova, Marquette, G'Town. Two of those are considered blue bloods in hoops. Marquette may be on their way to being one if they can get their act back together like in years past.

I still don't think we make the tourney but it will be hilarious if we do just to picture the faces of some of these SJ haters. SJ is more of an up and down team. Some good years, some great years, some mediocre, some bad. DePaul and Seton Hall are more like: bad, mediocre, bad, mediocre, bad, mediocre, terrible, mediocre, good. Look at the NCAA berths...the proof is in the pudding fellas.

[Hall2012]

Hey I found another connection! Their fan bases are both delusional enough to think they're the most important program to the future of the Big East (supported by comments in this thread- and many other threads for SJU).

That's false. I never claimed that. G'Town, Nova, and Marquette are most important. But SJ comes in 4th. And it's hard to make a case against that. You have a team in Jersey, a team in Rhode Island, a team in Chicago that has not been a factor since I can remember, a team in Nebraska, a team in Indiana, a team in Ohio, etc. Why is it a stretch to say the NYC team is much more important based on market alone? As I've said before: NYC is a giant magnifying glass. If you do good here you are seen as great. If you do mediocre it's seen as bad and if you do bad it's seen as terrible. That's why they say if you can make it here you can make it anywhere.

I find this hilarious coming from a Hall fan. Are you angry that you are on the outskirts of NYC so close you can touch it, but still in Jersey? I'd be mad too. Can't really blame ya there. You better hope your new recruiting class works out as planned is all I have to say. You guys have 9 NCAA appearances...that is mid major level. If there's any fans who can't talk it's DePaul and Seton Hall fans. Oh the irony. Two of the worst programs telling us we aren't that good. Cute.

You found a connection you say? I think I found a very strong one: the anti-St. John's bias on this forum. We are a program that you guys love to hate for whatever reason. It's hilarious that there's even a debate between SJ and SHU/DePaul in terms of better overall programs. This is not even up for debate. It's a finished answer: yes SJ is easily better even with all the down years recently.

The only teams that are clearly more accomplished than SJ at the major level in our conference are: Nova, Marquette, G'Town. Two of those are considered blue bloods in hoops. Marquette may be on their way to being one if they can get their act back together like in years past.

I still don't think we make the tourney but it will be hilarious if we do just to picture the faces of some of these SJ haters. SJ is more of an up and down team. Some good years, some great years, some mediocre, some bad. DePaul and Seton Hall are more like: bad, mediocre, bad, mediocre, bad, mediocre, terrible, mediocre, good. Look at the NCAA berths...the proof is in the pudding fellas.

Maybe you haven't quite claimed that under this name, but it was just one of the many ridiculous claims you made under your old name, Lavinwood. Nobody here has anything against SJU as a program. It's the obnoxious, delusional fans on this board that annoy people. St. John's is God's gift (no pun intended) to the world. When they win it's because they're the best. When they lose it's because they got screwed by the refs. They're the most important program in the Big East. Nobody else in the Big East is worthy of playing on the same court as the almighty St. John's. And what have you won in the past decade? Nothing.

[SJHooper]

Hey I found another connection! Their fan bases are both delusional enough to think they're the most important program to the future of the Big East (supported by comments in this thread- and many other threads for SJU).

That's false. I never claimed that. G'Town, Nova, and Marquette are most important. But SJ comes in 4th. And it's hard to make a case against that. You have a team in Jersey, a team in Rhode Island, a team in Chicago that has not been a factor since I can remember, a team in Nebraska, a team in Indiana, a team in Ohio, etc. Why is it a stretch to say the NYC team is much more important based on market alone? As I've said before: NYC is a giant magnifying glass. If you do good here you are seen as great. If you do mediocre it's seen as bad and if you do bad it's seen as terrible. That's why they say if you can make it here you can make it anywhere.

I find this hilarious coming from a Hall fan. Are you angry that you are on the outskirts of NYC so close you can touch it, but still in Jersey? I'd be mad too. Can't really blame ya there. You better hope your new recruiting class works out as planned is all I have to say. You guys have 9 NCAA appearances...that is mid major level. If there's any fans who can't talk it's DePaul and Seton Hall fans. Oh the irony. Two of the worst programs telling us we aren't that good. Cute.

You found a connection you say? I think I found a very strong one: the anti-St. John's bias on this forum. We are a program that you guys love to hate for whatever reason. It's hilarious that there's even a debate between SJ and SHU/DePaul in terms of better overall programs. This is not even up for debate. It's a finished answer: yes SJ is easily better even with all the down years recently.

The only teams that are clearly more accomplished than SJ at the major level in our conference are: Nova, Marquette, G'Town. Two of those are considered blue bloods in hoops. Marquette may be on their way to being one if they can get their act back together like in years past.

I still don't think we make the tourney but it will be hilarious if we do just to picture the faces of some of these SJ haters. SJ is more of an up and down team. Some good years, some great years, some mediocre, some bad. DePaul and Seton Hall are more like: bad, mediocre, bad, mediocre, bad, mediocre, terrible, mediocre, good. Look at the NCAA berths...the proof is in the pudding fellas.

Maybe you haven't quite claimed that under this name, but it was just one of the many ridiculous claims you made under your old name, Lavinwood. Nobody here has anything against SJU as a program. It's the obnoxious, delusional fans on this board that annoy people. St. John's is God's gift (no pun intended) to the world. When they win it's because they're the best. When they lose it's because they got screwed by the refs. They're the most important program in the Big East. Nobody else in the Big East is worthy of playing on the same court as the almighty St. John's. And what have you won in the past decade? Nothing.

SJ was ranked as high as #18 in 2011 and beat 5 top 10 teams cruising into the NCAA's until Kennedy got hurt. Things would have been very different if one key player did not get injured. This was a team that whipped Duke, Nova, UConn, Pitt, etc. In 2013 we were on the bubble until Harrison our best player was suspended for the final 6 games. This year we are firmly on the bubble and Lunardi says we may sneak in if we win our next game. How many years has SHU been in the NCAA hunt? All I remember is that one year with Theodore when you were ranked. Other than that, nothing close to even the bubble. SHU is a joke. We have more than 3x the amount of tourney appearances. This is a grown man conversation. Go sit at the kid table with your red hair and freckles.

And once again no one has said SJ is the MOST important program to the conference's success, but there is zero doubt we are an essential piece and no worse than #4 in the pecking order.

[SJU87]

Direct your anger at the old Big East teams and football, don't attack each other. Hope St. John's and Seton Hall become the teams they were in the 1980's and we'll all be happy. The internet and forums are great but you read all the negatives and get turned off . The negatives from SJU fans and SHU just make us look bad . Stay positive and think about your team.

[notkirkcameron]

Direct your anger at the old Big East teams and football, don't attack each other. Hope St. John's and Seton Hall become the teams they were in the 1980's and we'll all be happy. The internet and forums are great but you read all the negatives and get turned off . The negatives from SJU fans and SHU just make us look bad . Stay positive and think about your team.

I'm going to disagree with this. Yea, the internet is the home to a lot of lunatics, but one of the problems with this conference is everyone is just so....nice. Maybe it's part admiring other programs from afar during our days in separate conferences. Maybe it's the like-mindedness of the basketball schools in a "We're all in this together" espirit de corps during conference realignment.

A truly compelling league needs villains. It needs nastiness. My high school in Illinois played in a conference of 11 Catholic schools and I assure you, familiarity bred contempt and we all grew to hate each other by graduation despite the otherwise spiritual nature of the institutions. Ten years from now, who knows, I may really f***ing hate those bastards from Xavier/Creighton/whoever. Hall, St. John's, and the rest of the Big East old guard have a bit of a jump start on this.

[SJHooper]

Direct your anger at the old Big East teams and football, don't attack each other. Hope St. John's and Seton Hall become the teams they were in the 1980's and we'll all be happy. The internet and forums are great but you read all the negatives and get turned off . The negatives from SJU fans and SHU just make us look bad . Stay positive and think about your team.

I'm going to disagree with this. Yea, the internet is the home to a lot of lunatics, but one of the problems with this conference is everyone is just so....nice. Maybe it's part admiring other programs from afar during our days in separate conferences. Maybe it's the like-mindedness of the basketball schools in a "We're all in this together" espirit de corps during conference realignment.

A truly compelling league needs villains. It needs nastiness. My high school in Illinois played in a conference of 11 Catholic schools and I assure you, familiarity bred contempt and we all grew to hate each other by graduation. Ten years from now, who knows, I may really f***ing hate those bastards from Xavier/Creighton/whoever. Hall, St. John's, and the rest of the Big East old guard have a bit of a jump start on this.

Agreed. It can't be all nice. I think most of us understand it's like having a little brother. You can make fun of him but the second another random kid does you defend him. We are all brothers here and I truly hope the DePauls and Seton Hall's step their game up. SJU was right in saying to thank football for all of this. In a new conference we are all jockeying for position. If it was the old Big East then people should have laughed at saying SJ is one of the more important pieces to the conference. But since it's only 10 teams and only 3 teams have clearly better major conference success than us, why is saying we are at worst 4th most important to the success of the conference wrong to say? Yes Xavier, Creighton, and Butler have all been much more impressive as of late, but they did all of this as mid majors. Doing it at this level is totally different.

Deep down we are all Big East brothers but there are going to be times of frustration and ranting. I just couldn't sit there letting DePaul and SHU fans diss us. I couldn't.

[Hall2012]

SJ was ranked as high as #18 in 2011 and beat 5 top 10 teams cruising into the NCAA's until Kennedy got hurt. Things would have been very different if one key player did not get injured. This was a team that whipped Duke, Nova, UConn, Pitt, etc. In 2013 we were on the bubble until Harrison our best player was suspended for the final 6 games. This year we are firmly on the bubble and Lunardi says we may sneak in if we win our next game. How many years has SHU been in the NCAA hunt? All I remember is that one year with Theodore when you were ranked. Other than that, nothing close to even the bubble. SHU is a joke. We have more than 3x the amount of tourney appearances. This is a grown man conversation. Go sit at the kid table with your red hair and freckles.

And once again no one has said SJ is the MOST important program to the conference's success, but there is zero doubt we are an essential piece and no worse than #4 in the pecking order.

This isn't about St. John's vs Seton Hall. It's about your petty insults and needlessly attacking and trying to put down other programs. But, just some stuff for you to chew on..

-Your 2011 team was pretty good- your lone glory year of the decade. You beat some good teams and you broke into the polls. Seton Hall 84- St. John's 70. Ouch.
-NCAA Tournament appearances in the past decade- SJU 1, SHU 2. Neither are good, but it certainly doesn't suggest St. John's being superior.
-Higher finishes in the Big East standings over the past decade (this year included)- SJU 4, SHU 6.
-Top NYC recruits committed for next year: SJU 0, SHU 4.

[XUFan09]

You found a connection you say? I think I found a very strong one: the anti-St. John's bias on this forum. We are a program that you guys love to hate for whatever reason.

There isn't a bias against St. John's. There's a bias against you.