4th Team

[TheHall]

I'm not saying I think Seton Hall is going to get an at-large bid (nor do I think you're biased against them). My point is that with the strong showing at Marquette, as well as the wins at Georgetown and at Providence puts them solidly into contention for 4th place, and that's gotta get them into the discussion. Now, we all know how this league is- they could lose their next 3 to St. John's, DePaul, and Butler and blow it all to hell. They could also win those 3 and suddenly be 2 games over .500 in BE play.

All true but right now I'm not seeing the downside now. I'm seeing a team fighting, getting better, coaching better, winning on the road, and getting reinforcements back in the fold, not losing players, looking for answers or underachieving (at the moment) like many other teams in the league. Go Pirates!!!

[Jet915]

I'm not saying I think Seton Hall is going to get an at-large bid (nor do I think you're biased against them). My point is that with the strong showing at Marquette, as well as the wins at Georgetown and at Providence puts them solidly into contention for 4th place, and that's gotta get them into the discussion. Now, we all know how this league is- they could lose their next 3 to St. John's, DePaul, and Butler and blow it all to hell. They could also win those 3 and suddenly be 2 games over .500 in BE play.

Just have to disagree. 4th place for Seton Hall will get them in discussion for an NIT bid. There is just too much to overcome in losses to FDU and St. Peters and no big non-conference wins to overcome those bad losses. For example, Georgetown lost to Northeastern which is just as bad as FDU and St. Peters, BUT, they pummeled K-State and beat VCU, two teams likely to make the tourney so they get more slack. Seton Hall will need to probably get 2nd place to get in the discussion.

[Hall2012]

I'm not saying I think Seton Hall is going to get an at-large bid (nor do I think you're biased against them). My point is that with the strong showing at Marquette, as well as the wins at Georgetown and at Providence puts them solidly into contention for 4th place, and that's gotta get them into the discussion. Now, we all know how this league is- they could lose their next 3 to St. John's, DePaul, and Butler and blow it all to hell. They could also win those 3 and suddenly be 2 games over .500 in BE play.

Just have to disagree. 4th place for Seton Hall will get them in discussion for an NIT bid. There is just too much to overcome in losses to FDU and St. Peters and no big non-conference wins to overcome those bad losses. For example, Georgetown lost to Northeastern which is just as bad as FDU and St. Peters, BUT, they pummeled K-State and beat VCU, two teams likely to make the tourney so they get more slack. Seton Hall will need to probably get 2nd place to get in the discussion.

I think you're underrating the top to bottom strength of the conference.. I may be overrating it as well, we're coming from vastly different league and waiting to see where this one falls. There's a chance that every team in the Big East finishes ranked in the top 100 (currently, the only 2 outside are Marquette @ 101 and Seton Hall @ 102 according to ESPN). The lack of marquee wins to upset the bad losses early certainly does hurt, but the consistency required to finish in the top 4 of a conference as strong top to bottom as the Big East can't be ignored. I think 4th would make Seton Hall and NIT lock and get them in the conversation for the NCAA's (which may ultimately fall short).

[TheHall]

I'm not saying I think Seton Hall is going to get an at-large bid (nor do I think you're biased against them). My point is that with the strong showing at Marquette, as well as the wins at Georgetown and at Providence puts them solidly into contention for 4th place, and that's gotta get them into the discussion. Now, we all know how this league is- they could lose their next 3 to St. John's, DePaul, and Butler and blow it all to hell. They could also win those 3 and suddenly be 2 games over .500 in BE play.

Just have to disagree. 4th place for Seton Hall will get them in discussion for an NIT bid. There is just too much to overcome in losses to FDU and St. Peters and no big non-conference wins to overcome those bad losses. For example, Georgetown lost to Northeastern which is just as bad as FDU and St. Peters, BUT, they pummeled K-State and beat VCU, two teams likely to make the tourney so they get more slack. Seton Hall will need to probably get 2nd place to get in the discussion.

If you're saying that SHU as the 4th place team in the BE would only be in the discussion for the NIT how bad are you saying the remaining 6 teams would have to become? Seems like a stretch of an assumption just to stack a hard case (2nd place or bust) against SHU.

[XUFan09]

I'm not saying I think Seton Hall is going to get an at-large bid (nor do I think you're biased against them). My point is that with the strong showing at Marquette, as well as the wins at Georgetown and at Providence puts them solidly into contention for 4th place, and that's gotta get them into the discussion. Now, we all know how this league is- they could lose their next 3 to St. John's, DePaul, and Butler and blow it all to hell. They could also win those 3 and suddenly be 2 games over .500 in BE play.

Just have to disagree. 4th place for Seton Hall will get them in discussion for an NIT bid. There is just too much to overcome in losses to FDU and St. Peters and no big non-conference wins to overcome those bad losses. For example, Georgetown lost to Northeastern which is just as bad as FDU and St. Peters, BUT, they pummeled K-State and beat VCU, two teams likely to make the tourney so they get more slack. Seton Hall will need to probably get 2nd place to get in the discussion.

Added to that Seton Hall's expected non-conference SOS is 287th. That schedule alone is a bad mark on a team's resume; going 9-4 against that schedule is even worse. They're also 101st in Kenpom, so they have a lot of ground to make up there. They did improve their Kenpom ranking from 143rd to 101st in the seven games since Edwin and Auda have been back, and Teague's return should be a big help too. Realistically, Seton Hall's tournament chances rest on trying to get the best BET seed they can get.

[XUFan09]

I'm not saying I think Seton Hall is going to get an at-large bid (nor do I think you're biased against them). My point is that with the strong showing at Marquette, as well as the wins at Georgetown and at Providence puts them solidly into contention for 4th place, and that's gotta get them into the discussion. Now, we all know how this league is- they could lose their next 3 to St. John's, DePaul, and Butler and blow it all to hell. They could also win those 3 and suddenly be 2 games over .500 in BE play.

Just have to disagree. 4th place for Seton Hall will get them in discussion for an NIT bid. There is just too much to overcome in losses to FDU and St. Peters and no big non-conference wins to overcome those bad losses. For example, Georgetown lost to Northeastern which is just as bad as FDU and St. Peters, BUT, they pummeled K-State and beat VCU, two teams likely to make the tourney so they get more slack. Seton Hall will need to probably get 2nd place to get in the discussion.

If you're saying that SHU as the 4th place team in the BE would only be in the discussion for the NIT how bad are you saying the remaining 6 teams would have to become? Seems like a stretch of an assumption just to stack a hard case (2nd place or bust) against SHU.

Other Big East teams don't have to be bad for 4th place to not be enough for Seton Hall. Let's say the 4th place team finishes with a record of 10-8 or 11-7. In this league, that's a pretty good mark for any team. Georgetown and Providence (and to a lesser extent Marquette) would have complemented that record with a non-conference performance that isn't poor. Seton Hall, on the other hand, is at a disadvantage in that regard, even if the Selection Committee gives extra weight to their performance with a fully healthy roster.

[MackNova]

Just have to disagree. 4th place for Seton Hall will get them in discussion for an NIT bid. There is just too much to overcome in losses to FDU and St. Peters and no big non-conference wins to overcome those bad losses. For example, Georgetown lost to Northeastern which is just as bad as FDU and St. Peters, BUT, they pummeled K-State and beat VCU, two teams likely to make the tourney so they get more slack. Seton Hall will need to probably get 2nd place to get in the discussion.

If you're saying that SHU as the 4th place team in the BE would only be in the discussion for the NIT how bad are you saying the remaining 6 teams would have to become? Seems like a stretch of an assumption just to stack a hard case (2nd place or bust) against SHU.

Other Big East teams don't have to be bad for 4th place to not be enough for Seton Hall. Let's say the 4th place team finishes with a record of 10-8 or 11-7. In this league, that's a pretty good mark for any team. Georgetown and Providence (and to a lesser extent Marquette) would have complemented that record with a non-conference performance that isn't poor. Seton Hall, on the other hand, is at a disadvantage in that regard, even if the Selection Committee gives extra weight to their performance with a fully healthy roster.

This.

Bottom line: If you want to argue Seton Hall is the 4th-best team in the Big East right now, you can at least make an argument. Do they have the fourth-best resume? No. Not even close. It is January, so if Seton Hall goes on a huge run, it's not over with. But I think Hall will need to win in NY.

Did injuries hurt Seton Hall? Sure, but Georgetown was out two of its key players when Seton Hall beat them. Josh Smith might not come back, so that may turn out to be irrelevant, but SHU isn't the only team with injuries. Plus, Maayan isn't coming back either.


At the same token, I wonder if Smith possibly not coming back is enough to dock Georgetown for some of its early-season wins.

[TheHall]

If you're saying that SHU as the 4th place team in the BE would only be in the discussion for the NIT how bad are you saying the remaining 6 teams would have to become? Seems like a stretch of an assumption just to stack a hard case (2nd place or bust) against SHU.

Other Big East teams don't have to be bad for 4th place to not be enough for Seton Hall. Let's say the 4th place team finishes with a record of 10-8 or 11-7. In this league, that's a pretty good mark for any team. Georgetown and Providence (and to a lesser extent Marquette) would have complemented that record with a non-conference performance that isn't poor. Seton Hall, on the other hand, is at a disadvantage in that regard, even if the Selection Committee gives extra weight to their performance with a fully healthy roster.

He said in the discussion for the NIT at 4th place not the NCAAT. Considering 5 of those 6 teams are all in the top 100 RPI. If the 4th place team in the BE is only in the discussion for the NIT, well who were we beating if we theoretically got the 4th spot, the little sister of the poor. I agree it may not be enough for the NCAAT, I just think it can be depending on what the bubble actually looks like in march.

[TheHall]

This.

Bottom line: If you want to argue Seton Hall is the 4th-best team in the Big East right now, you can at least make an argument. Do they have the fourth-best resume? No. Not even close. It is January, so if Seton Hall goes on a huge run, it's not over with. But I think Hall will need to win in NY.

Did injuries hurt Seton Hall? Sure, but Georgetown was out two of its key players when Seton Hall beat them. Josh Smith might not come back, so that may turn out to be irrelevant, but SHU isn't the only team with injuries. Plus, Maayan isn't coming back either.


At the same token, I wonder if Smith possibly not coming back is enough to dock Georgetown for some of its early-season wins.

See Hall2012 this is why I didn't bother making the full case. This guy's running all over the place just to say SHU has no chance. When did anyone say other teams haven't had injuries. The point is they matter no matter who has them, but the fact that we have our guys back & they are good players is what's relevant. Just ask Hoya fans if a healthy tandem of Fuquan & Teague playing for the whole game was a different challenge than what Marquette faced a few games ago. That's the team we are fielding now, not the one this guy keeps talking about. He reduced our bad loss total by 33% within 3 posts yet he's still pontificating the same story, facts be damned. People who think this is the team that lost to FDU & St. Pete's, you're wrong, 2013 is over & there are plenty of games to be played.

[XUFan09]

If you're saying that SHU as the 4th place team in the BE would only be in the discussion for the NIT how bad are you saying the remaining 6 teams would have to become? Seems like a stretch of an assumption just to stack a hard case (2nd place or bust) against SHU.

Other Big East teams don't have to be bad for 4th place to not be enough for Seton Hall. Let's say the 4th place team finishes with a record of 10-8 or 11-7. In this league, that's a pretty good mark for any team. Georgetown and Providence (and to a lesser extent Marquette) would have complemented that record with a non-conference performance that isn't poor. Seton Hall, on the other hand, is at a disadvantage in that regard, even if the Selection Committee gives extra weight to their performance with a fully healthy roster.

He said in the discussion for the NIT at 4th place not the NCAAT. Considering 5 of those 6 teams are all in the top 100 RPI. If the 4th place team in the BE is only in the discussion for the NIT, well who were we beating if we theoretically got the 4th spot, the little sister of the poor. I agree it may not be enough for the NCAAT, I just think it can be depending on what the bubble actually looks like in march.

It would have to be really weak bubble. Also, Seton Hall could conceivably get 4th place and head to the NIT while the 5th place team heads to the tournament. For example, if Georgetown turns this around and finishes the season 10-8 in conference and Seton Hall finishes 11-7, that's probably exactly what would happen.