I got one question for Big East basketball fans!

[Bill Marsh]

...also I did find the lack of a mention of a National Championship in someone's past resume that occured at about the same time as some of PC's mentioned high points to be a rather conspicuous omission.

Again, the issue is what Marquette has done for the Big East.

Marquette should be justifiably proud of the NC, but that didn't do anything for the Big East. And it may have been "about the same time" as some of PC's high points in the '70's, but PC's reputation, based on it's high points in the '60's and '70's, helped to establish the conference's instant credibility while Marquette's high points in that era did nothing for the Big East. And PC's high points in the '80's and '90's helped to sustain the conference's prominence - something which Marquette has only done recently.

[Bill Marsh]

My take is while certain obvious programs have been more successful than others in the last 10-15 years, no one from the big east has won it all more than once and no one has won since the mid 1980s.....further those who have been successful have mostly been making the dance and or sweet 16, it's not like semi annual final four runs or anything. I hope that this newer non football incarnation sees more movement and jockeying for the top spots year over year.

I agree but we also need major programs year after year that people can say oh the Big East is great they have Georgetown or Villanova. That is what makes a conference at least appear like a power conference. Georgetown, Connecticut and Syracuse served this role for the Big East in the past. Duke and North Carolina for the ACC. Kansas for the Big 12. Kentucky for the Sec. Indiana for the B1G. I do think its important we have a team or two or three like that. I think right now Georgetown's probably that team that has that mind share. Maybe Villanova or Marquette for 2 or 3(just as I see it right now).

That being said one of the great things about the big east is it is always closer than other conferences there are a lot more jockeying for spots and in my opinion thats what makes it a great. But I do think having the perception of a premier program is good for the league and its perception of being a power conference.

You have said it well.

As a fan of Eastern basketball, I couldn't have been happier when Georgetown won its NC in 1984. The East really needed that. When Villanova beat Georgetown the following year, that really cemented the fact that the East was back. It had been 30 years (1954-84) between NCAA championships for an school from the East and a lot of respect had been lost for a region that once dominated the sport.

IMHO, Catholic schools are in a similar position now. 2013-14 is 29 years removed from Villanova's 1985 title run and there hasn't been a Catholic championship team since. Basketball has long been THE sport of Catholic colleges - Notre Dame excepted of course. In the tournament era, Catholic schools had won national championships in every decade until running into the current dry spell. In fact, there wasn't even a Final Four team in the '90's. Marquette's run in 2003 was the first after the NC was stolen from Seton Hall in 1989. It's been great to see Georgetown and Villanova runs of their own to give everyone some hope. It reminds me of how the East started making runs again in the '70's after living without hope for most of the 70's. The formation of the Big East in 1979 was just the platform that the region needed to elevate their teams to the next level. I'm hoping that the new Big East will provide this group of schools with the same lift.

[GumbyDamnit!]

It'll still be relatively civil, since everyone needs everyone else to be terrific for the sake of the conference. But once that dissipates its gonna be a donnybrook. There's a definite undercurrent of original BE teams/added BE teams/freshly invited BE teams in that order, and if we (CU) pull our weight the first couple years and do what's necessary to establish the conference, that attitude will wind up getting a Return to Sender on it, and I can just see tons of scores being created due to 10 different perspectives.

As a fan of a long-time BE school I can tell you from my own perspective that there may be some loyalty built around decades of competition but I do not think there is necessarily a pecking order. In fact I will say that I consider Marq higher up, or more of a true BE team than a Prov & SHU because they have done more for the conference over the past several years. Do the new programs have to earn their strpes a bit? Absolutely, but that is said with respect. I have a feeling that Xavier especially is going to be a consistent top half program. If CU can do the same then they are not sitting at any kids table at the BE Thnaksgiving Feast. In the next 5 years if they are making tourneys and increasing our collective impact on college hoops I will consider them more of a true BE school than a SHU or DePaul if both continue to be basement dwellers. I always thought that SHU, Prov and DePaul needed to get their sh!t together if this league was going to be successful. It looks like that is happening with the former two at least. We need bids and we need to get to FF's. Whicher teams can do that will rise to the top of the pecking order.

Wow!

Only the last few years matter . . .

The Big East wouldn't even exist without the vision of a certain Providence College AD. For two decades before the league started, Providence was probably the most prominent program in the East and they lent that prominence to the conference when it began. They then went to a Final Four in the league's first decade, followed that up with a BG East championship a few years later and went to an Elite 8 a decade after the Final Four.

But because they went to an Elite 8 last year, Marquette is suddenly more of a "true" Big East program? Oh, yeah, they achieved a couple of Sweet 16's before that, which certainly brings the "wow" facto, don't they? I guess when a team hits a down cycle, it's time to kick them to the curb, eh? Well, be careful. Providence may actually surprise everyone and actually be better than Marquette this year. I'll. bet that would be a real mind blower. And then we could kick Matquette to the curb because it's a "What have you done for me lately?" world.

Bill, actually yeah. How you've represented this basketball conference is kind of the point. Since Marq has joined they have 9 tournament wins as a BE member. During that same span PC has 0 and SHU 1. As I said the pecking order, in my mind, should be based on merit. Give me the teams that bring accolades to the conference on a consistent basis. Marq has done that. I hope like hell that SHU and PC can have that same success in the upcoming years. If The 3 new schools come in and are making consistent trips to the Tourney and DePaul continues to struggle would you still consider DePaul a more valuable brand to the conference at a whole? I would not.

And what are you talking about with the "kick to the curb" comment? If you read any of my posts you'll see that there is probably no fan of any other BE program that has said more complimentary things about PC than me. I love what Cooley is doing. I was on here before the new conf was launched, defending PC when fans of SLU and Dayton were saying to drop them from the future BE. But when you are 0 for the last 15+ years in tourney wins, I don't think it's time to puff out your chest about the glory days of Billy Donovan and Marvin Barnes no matter how terrific those runs were.

[Bill Marsh]

As a fan of a long-time BE school I can tell you from my own perspective that there may be some loyalty built around decades of competition but I do not think there is necessarily a pecking order. In fact I will say that I consider Marq higher up, or more of a true BE team than a Prov & SHU because they have done more for the conference over the past several years. Do the new programs have to earn their strpes a bit? Absolutely, but that is said with respect. I have a feeling that Xavier especially is going to be a consistent top half program. If CU can do the same then they are not sitting at any kids table at the BE Thnaksgiving Feast. In the next 5 years if they are making tourneys and increasing our collective impact on college hoops I will consider them more of a true BE school than a SHU or DePaul if both continue to be basement dwellers. I always thought that SHU, Prov and DePaul needed to get their sh!t together if this league was going to be successful. It looks like that is happening with the former two at least. We need bids and we need to get to FF's. Whicher teams can do that will rise to the top of the pecking order.

Wow!

Only the last few years matter . . .

The Big East wouldn't even exist without the vision of a certain Providence College AD. For two decades before the league started, Providence was probably the most prominent program in the East and they lent that prominence to the conference when it began. They then went to a Final Four in the league's first decade, followed that up with a BG East championship a few years later and went to an Elite 8 a decade after the Final Four.

But because they went to an Elite 8 last year, Marquette is suddenly more of a "true" Big East program? Oh, yeah, they achieved a couple of Sweet 16's before that, which certainly brings the "wow" facto, don't they? I guess when a team hits a down cycle, it's time to kick them to the curb, eh? Well, be careful. Providence may actually surprise everyone and actually be better than Marquette this year. I'll. bet that would be a real mind blower. And then we could kick Matquette to the curb because it's a "What have you done for me lately?" world.

Bill, actually yeah. How you've represented this basketball conference is kind of the point. Since Marq has joined they have 9 tournament wins as a BE member. During that same span PC has 0 and SHU 1. As I said the pecking order, in my mind, should be based on merit. Give me the teams that bring accolades to the conference on a consistent basis. Marq has done that. I hope like hell that SHU and PC can have that same success in the upcoming years. If The 3 new schools come in and are making consistent trips to the Tourney and DePaul continues to struggle would you still consider DePaul a more valuable brand to the conference at a whole? I would not.

And what are you talking about with the "kick to the curb" comment? If you read any of my posts you'll see that there is probably no fan of any other BE program that has said more complimentary things about PC than me. I love what Cooley is doing. I was on here before the new conf was launched, defending PC when fans of SLU and Dayton were saying to drop them from the future BE. But when you are 0 for the last 15+ years in tourney wins, I don't think it's time to puff out your chest about the glory days of Billy Donovan and Marvin Barnes no matter how terrific those runs were.

Fair points.

No continuing member in the current Big East has been more successful recently than Marquette. And Marquette is definitely a more valuable brand right now than the 3 you mention.

Sorry if I over reacted, but I took offense at the term "more of a true Big East team." I don't think that charter members who have been to Final Fours and who have won conference titles should have to apologize for their standing. They took enough abuse from the football schools. I agree that there shouldn't be a pecking order either by tradition or by current performance. Everyone will get their turn at the top and at the bottom. History tells us that.

[paulxu]

As a newcomer, XU will have to "earn its stripes." I'm confident that we won't be pulling the league down.
What we need to do is get to a Final Four. Until then we are just improving.
That said, we're proud to represent the Big East on this list:

Xavier hasn't been to the national championship game, like Butler has. But the Musketeers have been to the NCAA tournament seven of the past eight years, and have advanced to the Sweet Sixteen in four of the past six. The only other schools that can say that? Kansas, Michigan State, Duke, North Carolina, Ohio State, Louisville and Syracuse -- that's quite a list.

[GumbyDamnit!]

No issue here Bill. I am a big fan of PC and I honestly hope they can return to the glory days most remember. As a LONG time BE fan it hurts to see programs like PC and SJU struggle and I root hard for them. My phrase, admittedly in retrospect, was poor. I just think in this new world of the BE we need consistent winners, and those are the programs that deserve the most respect regardless of when they joined. When PC laces them up against CU this year, my long term loyalty will prob kick in and I'll be rooting for the traditional BE team to prevail.

[MUBoxer]

...also I did find the lack of a mention of a National Championship in someone's past resume that occured at about the same time as some of PC's mentioned high points to be a rather conspicuous omission.

Again, the issue is what Marquette has done for the Big East.

Marquette should be justifiably proud of the NC, but that didn't do anything for the Big East. And it may have been "about the same time" as some of PC's high points in the '70's, but PC's reputation, based on it's high points in the '60's and '70's, helped to establish the conference's instant credibility while Marquette's high points in that era did nothing for the Big East. And PC's high points in the '80's and '90's helped to sustain the conference's prominence - something which Marquette has only done recently.

No. If you're going to say that prov in the 70s helped the conference before it was born then marquette in 2003 helped just as much for providing credibility for this current conference. I won't argue about the NC of ours because it was a long time ago and really outside of making three teams to brag about national championships it does nothing for the BE.

[MUSeashells&Balloons]

Not that it matters all that much but my standard for judging a programs current status is what have they accomplished in the lifetime of the current freshmen. I find it an easy way to judge and keep it fair. Unfortunately for Marquette and other BE teams that means are NC's really aren't that important to current status.

[Daffron24]

...also I did find the lack of a mention of a National Championship in someone's past resume that occured at about the same time as some of PC's mentioned high points to be a rather conspicuous omission.

Again, the issue is what Marquette has done for the Big East.

Marquette should be justifiably proud of the NC, but that didn't do anything for the Big East. And it may have been "about the same time" as some of PC's high points in the '70's, but PC's reputation, based on it's high points in the '60's and '70's, helped to establish the conference's instant credibility while Marquette's high points in that era did nothing for the Big East. And PC's high points in the '80's and '90's helped to sustain the conference's prominence - something which Marquette has only done recently.

While I agree in most sports "what have you done for me lately" is used a lot. While I like to look at a teams history and not just lately you have to remember a lot of people on these boards and college students weren't even alive or very young when the BE was established and when PC was good. So there's that.

[dmac80]

My main point is that there IS a pecking order and always will be, but that those puffing out their chest better be aware that others are primed to move up. And those puffing out their chests have seen GOOD but not great showings more years than not come March. I am fully aware PC has been a train wreck for a decade, but Cooley has turned things around a hurry.