Conference realignment discussion - v. 2015

[GoldenWarrior11]

I believe the reason the C7 Presidents went with just three additional members in 2013 (instead of 4, 5, or possibly 7 members) is that the conference wanted to rebuild the Big East brand - getting make to its core of an elite basketball-driven conference with east coast focus. By adding Xavier and Butler (Atlantic-10) and Creighton (Missouri Valley), they were not poaching from just one conference. Had they included a combination of say Saint Louis, Dayton, or VCU, they would have taken a majority of the elite teams from the Atlantic-10, which would have just started a perception of including the remaining old Big East teams and the best Atlantic-10 teams - an idea that the C7 Presidents certainly did not want.

By adding just the three members to start, all of whom have been absolutely wonderful additions thus far, it allowed the league to build strong comradery with all of the teams and, once again, rebuild the Big East brand. There will be a time and a place for expansion and new members. Right now, and for the foreseeable future, we are still in the building stage. Schools like Dayton, Saint Louis, VCU, Wichita State, Gonzaga and even UCONN are not going anywhere. They, too, will be available for the next several seasons.

Meanwhile, however unlikely and improbable, schools like St. Bonaventure, Duquesne, and Richmond, among others, should have every incentive to starting pumping in as much cash as they can into their basketball programs (coaches, facilities, stadiums) to try and get included in the conversations for an eventual Big East invitation. The demand will be there, and there will only be a select number of spots. They could easily jump into the discussions if it is apparent that they want to be in with the basketball crowd.

[gosports1]

id like to see the minutes from the C7 meetings discussing expansion. the notes from the meetings after the initial ACC raid of the old BE i found very interesting

[Ball Turret Gunner]

. (Not to mention, had Dayton been a Big East member the last two years and performed exactly the same, it would be 7 additional units for the BE, roughly $12-13 million, but also $12-13 million LESS for the Atlantic 10).

Baloney. they wouldn't have made the dance either year if they were in the BE. They finished 6th in the a-10 last year and were the last team in from a weak A-10 this yr.

If UD has been so bad the last two years compared to the mighty NBE, how have they outperformed the entire NBE in the NCAA tournament over that period of time? They have proven themselves against some stiff competition in that tournament, wouldn't you agree?

[muskienick]

It's true that the Flyers have done quite well over the last two years on the hardwood. Furthermore, their fan support has been wonderful for decades and their TV viewing of college basketball has also been traditionally great (although in a smallish media market).

But one has to go back to the Don Donoher/Tom Blackburn years to find a consistently good program on the floor and in the stands. Furthermore, during the years UD was in a Conference (MCC, Great Midwest, and A-10), they have seldom experienced ultimate success in those Conferences in terms of regular season and Conference Tourney championships. UD has also not had particular success in selecting coaches to head the program since it threw Donoher to the curb (pretty much "striking out" with the naming of Jim O'Brien, Oliver Purnell, and Brian Gregory as the Flyers next three head coaches). Without such a history of on-going Conference and head coach selection success, it is difficult to give serious consideration to the Flyers for membership in the Big East. Perhaps a long-tenured Archie Miller can provide the Flyers with the on-going respect and success that their fans deserve.

The same deficiencies cannot be applied to a few of UD's main competitors for membership in the Big East, especially Gonzaga, VCU, and Wichita State. Of course, each of those schools lack at least one criterion that Dayton has: geography vs Gonzaga; private institution vs VCU and Wichita State.

It'll be interesting to see how this all eventually plays out over the next decade.

[Bluejay]

id like to see the minutes from the C7 meetings discussing expansion. the notes from the meetings after the initial ACC raid of the old BE i found very interesting

I think you have accidentally stumbled upon the reason why the university presidents will only seriously consider private schools when it comes to expansion. As long as the entity is made up of all privates, there will be no access to meeting minutes, internal emails or anything else. I thought the same thing when somebody here posted the story about UAB dropping football with all of the internal emails among UAB personnel (acquired by via a Freedom of Information Act request) laid bare for the whole world to read.

This group values its privacy greatly. That is why, IMO, it would take a huge state school like UConn before they add a public. Wichita St and VCU have fine basketball programs, but I can't see the university presidents voluntarily giving up their privacy to add one or both of those schools any time soon. There is a lot more going on here...

I also want to comment on one thing that Frank the Tank said. I disagree strongly that there is a great desire by this group of presidents to expand. In fact, I think the contrary is true. I also don't believe that the offer from Fox to pay more if two more schools were added is still on the table. I know it was discussed initially, but we haven't heard anything about it since...and I suspect with the ratings, Fox is probably not as eager to be as loose with the purse strings unless a big name like UConn were to be made available. With no extra money from Fox, there is no reason to expand now. Perhaps when the pool of NCAA tourney credits builds up or we are a lot closer to the contract renewal period the environment would change, but financially it is just a dumb idea to do it right now.

[chopper]

. (Not to mention, had Dayton been a Big East member the last two years and performed exactly the same, it would be 7 additional units for the BE, roughly $12-13 million, but also $12-13 million LESS for the Atlantic 10).

Baloney. they wouldn't have made the dance either year if they were in the BE. They finished 6th in the a-10 last year and were the last team in from a weak A-10 this yr.

If Dayton had been added to the BE, then the odds are Xavier or some other team would not have even made the field of 64 or potentially gotten to the Sweet 16.

[DudeAnon]

UD fits the mold in every-way except for consistent success. Archie is going a great job, but he is the exception not the norm when it comes to UD basketball. But maybe that will change.

[stever20]

. (Not to mention, had Dayton been a Big East member the last two years and performed exactly the same, it would be 7 additional units for the BE, roughly $12-13 million, but also $12-13 million LESS for the Atlantic 10).

Baloney. they wouldn't have made the dance either year if they were in the BE. They finished 6th in the a-10 last year and were the last team in from a weak A-10 this yr.

If Dayton had been added to the BE, then the odds are Xavier or some other team would not have even made the field of 64 or potentially gotten to the Sweet 16.

why? Maybe instead of Xavier playing Nova a 2nd time regular season they play Dayton and beat them.

[gtmoBlue]

id like to see the minutes from the C7 meetings discussing expansion. the notes from the meetings after the initial ACC raid of the old BE i found very interesting

I think you have accidentally stumbled upon the reason why the university presidents will only seriously consider private schools when it comes to expansion. As long as the entity is made up of all privates, there will be no access to meeting minutes, internal emails or anything else. I thought the same thing when somebody here posted the story about UAB dropping football with all of the internal emails among UAB personnel (acquired by via a Freedom of Information Act request) laid bare for the whole world to read.

This group values its privacy greatly. That is why, IMO, it would take a huge state school like UConn before they add a public. Wichita St and VCU have fine basketball programs, but I can't see the university presidents voluntarily giving up their privacy to add one or both of those schools any time soon. There is a lot more going on here...

I also want to comment on one thing that Frank the Tank said. I disagree strongly that there is a great desire by this group of presidents to expand. In fact, I think the contrary is true. I also don't believe that the offer from Fox to pay more if two more schools were added is still on the table. I know it was discussed initially, but we haven't heard anything about it since...and I suspect with the ratings, Fox is probably not as eager to be as loose with the purse strings unless a big name like UConn were to be made available. With no extra money from Fox, there is no reason to expand now. Perhaps when the pool of NCAA tourney credits builds up or we are a lot closer to the contract renewal period the environment would change, but financially it is just a dumb idea to do it right now.

.

+1

[MUBoxer]

I posted on an MU board about Dayton and wanted to bring that point over here. Dayton has 16 NCAA appearances, 24 NITs. Only three of those are Elite 8s (one a runner up). The thing that this conference has in many of the teams (minus the new three) is that each team had a period where they were pretty much on par with the blue bloods in the country. Dayton never had that and the recent success coincides with the two teams that dominated the A10 (temple and X) leaving so it's not even as impressive as a few years ago. They don't belong. No there's not a better fit but we shouldn't try and make something that doesn't fit, fit.