Expansion: UAB to reunite with Marquette and DePaul in NBE?

[gtmoBlue]

I don't know why we aren't looking at Duke. Once UNC gets the death penalty, the ACC is toast. No decent schools left in that conference. Duke also fits our profile; it's a private, basketball-centric school. We got the FS1 contract locked up, so its not like they'd miss ESPN. Huge alumni base in New York, so they'd turn up for the conference tournament. I mean, I know they have football, but it's kind of a joke. They'd drop it in a heartbeat to come join us. It just makes sense, right? Make it happen, Val.

NOTE: The scenario I laid out is equally as likely as expansion is in the next 5 years. Just keep beating everyone in sight (except for Creighton), and health of the conference will be just fine.

I like this guy, Doge McDermott.

[Xudash]

Ii don't think there is a single one of the old BE schools that would vote to keep Uconn out if they did something with their football program. They are too valuable an asset.

I agree but I think UCONN would have to destroy their football program and bring it down to I-AA otherwise, they will always be a flight risk.

With regards to flight risk, are there two things to consider:

1. How much TV money is available; how many teams can be added before dollars/team declines; and

2. The math and logic behind 4x16 still holds - a de facto 8 team playoff via 4 conference championships.

The P5, when you add ND to them, number 65 now.

The point is that there practically is no room at the inn already. In essence, we need for the Big XII to panic, if that is what today induced, and add a couple teams now. Will their TV deal and possibly Fred Smith help make that happen? Who knows, but it appears that conference needs to do something.

Even then, UCONN isn't going off half-cocked immediately, but additional movement like this moves us in a good direction.

I really like what Nova's AD had to say.

[Jet915]

What did Nova's AD say??? The first domino has to be the Big XII taking Memphis/Cincy. After that, maybe Fox can sweeten the pot to lure UCONN and someone else to the Big East.

[Xudash]

Villanova's AD has been quoted as saying the Big East would only admit schools that had a "wow" factor. To my mind, UCONN and Gonzaga would be the only current options that would fit that bill. Dayton, SLU, VCU - none of them move the needle for any casual basketball fan or--by extension--Fox. Gonzaga is extremely unlikely for a bunch of reasons, but I could definitely see UCONN thinking about it. Unlike most FBS schools, they get their money from hoops, and it's going to be tough to sell tickets with SMU, East Carolina, Tulane, et al. coming to town. If football continues to be dormant (watch Villanova beat them to open the 2015 season), and gate revenue dries up in hoops (remember, they get only around $1.5M per year TOTAL in tv revenue from the AAC), they find themselves in a difficult position.

He said the above.

[Jet915]

Man, if we could somehow get Gonzaga and UCONN, that would be the ultimate.

[Bill Marsh]

If most coaches have figured him out, how did he manage to beat Oregon and Tennessee this year? How did he manage to come up with wins last year over Virginia and Dayton last year and Memphis the year before?

If he's just a systems coach, then the coaches who really should have figured him out are the coaches in the A10 who see him twice a year. With the strongest group of teams in the A10 in years last season, he finished 2nd and went to the finals of the conference tournament. Those coaches sure haven't figured him out.

You're really underestimating Shaka as a coach and VCU as a program. You make it sound like he snuck up on people in 2011 by using some kind of gimmick that took everyone by surprise. Shaka's a good coach. Every coach has their approach and he has his, but that doesn't mean that he isn't a good coach or that his defense isn't legitimate. It would be like claiming that Boeheim's success is just a product of his zone. Yeah, one of these days coaches will catch up with that gimmick. Like they haven't been trying to for the last 20 years.

You're also being unfair to VCU as a program. You're treating them like they're just a product of one coach. They had success before he got there with Anthony Grant and Jeff Capel. They're no more a one coach program than Butler was under Brad Stevens.

That's an awful lot to read into a 100 word post. Especially when I EXPLICITLY said "Shaka is a good coach." You're better than that Bill. I also never said he was "just a system coach," and in fact EXPLICITLY stated "he is smart enough to adapt." I also never said most coaches have him figured out, I said "most good coaches." There's a difference between George Mason and Georgetown, St. Joe's and Villanova, etc. I also never said that VCU is a product of one coach, but their biggest success was in 2011. They never before or since reached even the elite 8.

Also, just because a system has been figured out doesn't mean it will never work again. There are literally dozens of offensive schemes to deal with both zone and man d, but their success generally depends on execution. That's why Boeheim's zone works, not because it hasn't been figured out but because he drills it so well that it requires outstanding execution to beat. Shaka has a higher level of athlete than most A10 programs bring in, and that helps quite a bit. Finally, comparing Havoc to zone d is absolutely ridiculous. Zone has been around for decades because it continues to work. It is also highly adaptable (1-3-1, 2-3, 3-2, box and 1, etc). Beating Havoc really only requires a good PG surrounded by athletic players who can make solid passes. That is the reason that VCU is under-performing in a year when Shaka is supposed to have his most talented squad ever. All the hyperbole and sarcasm in the world won't change that.

As to the wins you cited, Oregon is a decent program but they haven't beaten anyone of note this year. Tennessee is terrible, even we beat them. Virginia just got their revenge with a dominant victory. Dayton was a head case last season, with several head-scratching losses. Memphis is a solid win, but that was 2 years ago and a lot has changed.

VCU has not made it past the first weekend since 2011. They also haven't beaten a high major in the tournament since then. They averaged 3 tourney appearances per decade before 2011. That's not bad, but not really any different from Richmond or Dayton and only slightly better than SLU. They never advanced to the sweet 16 prior to 2011.

None of this is to say that VCU isn't a solid program. VCU IS A GREAT PROGRAM AND SHOULD BE IN THE EXPANSION DISCUSSION. That ought to be hard to miss when you post your rebuttal. However, they seem to have peaked as a program for the foreseeable future. Maybe joining the BE would get them over the hump, but we won't know unless it happens.

Thanks for the longer explanation. I read every word and you make many excellent points.

No rebuttal.

[robinreed]

I don't know why we aren't looking at Duke. Once UNC gets the death penalty, the ACC is toast. No decent schools left in that conference. Duke also fits our profile; it's a private, basketball-centric school. We got the FS1 contract locked up, so its not like they'd miss ESPN. Huge alumni base in New York, so they'd turn up for the conference tournament. I mean, I know they have football, but it's kind of a joke. They'd drop it in a heartbeat to come join us. It just makes sense, right? Make it happen, Val.

NOTE: The scenario I laid out is equally as likely as expansion is in the next 5 years. Just keep beating everyone in sight (except for Creighton), and health of the conference will be just fine.

Duke may fit our profile but as you well know this is one of the most unlikely events to occur since the middle ages. However nearby Duke in Tobacco Road lies Wake Forrest. The president of that fine institution has already stated that his school will not be able to pay the full cost of tuition and other benefits which the P5 has forced upon college sports. He is the first P5 president to reject these changes outright. Perhaps we should look to wake as a member, along with UCONN of course.

[gtmoBlue]

The BE is on récord to match the F5/P5 in the "Full costs" /other benefits área. The league and ADs have said new member candidates must move the needle. UConn, Gonzaga, Duke, VCU meet that criteria. Wake Forest, Dayton, SLU do not.

In 2012-13 the ACC paid 12 members an average total revenue of $18 million (all time high). Last year TR paid was $20.8 million (14 Full members, excludes ND), and includes their new TV deal. With 16 current members that pot is shrinking. Furthermore the ACC will find itself shut out of the FBS playoff, most if not all years. Duke is an anomaly- a shall group of elitist pricks-in a landscape of hillbillies, hicks, hayseeds, and bumpkins. They belong in a league of fellow elitist pricks- the BE or the Ivy.

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-b ... tml#page=1
http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... iscal-year

A renegotiation with Fox on a 12-team league (UConn and Duke), along with a new Multimedia Rights deal puts the Big East per member revenues in that $15-18 million range. New accessions can do what Syracuse did and make deals to keep favorite rivalry H&Hs alive. Duke And UConn can park their football wherever, All other Sports in the BE.

[marquette]

Thanks for the longer explanation. I read every word and you make many excellent points.

No rebuttal.

Rereading my post it kind of comes across a bit nasty. I'm sorry, that was not my intention. I'm kind of on edge at the moment because of finals. I'll try to keep things a little more even-keeled.

[TheBasketballOpinion]

The BE is on récord to match the F5/P5 in the "Full costs" /other benefits área. The league and ADs have said new member candidates must move the needle. UConn, Gonzaga, Duke, VCU meet that criteria. Wake Forest, Dayton, SLU do not.

In 2012-13 the ACC paid 12 members an average total revenue of $18 million (all time high). Last year TR paid was $20.8 million (14 Full members, excludes ND), and includes their new TV deal. With 16 current members that pot is shrinking. Furthermore the ACC will find itself shut out of the FBS playoff, most if not all years.

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-b ... tml#page=1
http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... iscal-year

A renegotiation with Fox on a 12-team league (UConn and Duke), along with a new Multimedia Rights deal puts the Big East per member revenues in that $15-18 million range. New accessions can do what Syracuse did and make deals to keep favorite rivalry H&Hs alive. Duke And UConn can park their football wherever, All other Sports in the BE.

I'm so confused as to where this notion of Duke leaving the ACC came from? NEVER going to happen.