The Case for Dayton

[jayelan]

Why not add Gonzaga and UCLA, that way I could see my Bruins more often. Just kidding. But I would stay at 10 for a couple years to see how the teams progress. I truly believe that if Archie means what he says then Dayton is on the rise for the foreseeable future. Can't say I feel the same about SLU. Their collapse toward the end of the year was massive. Only reason the won the NC State game was NC State missed 15 free throws down the stretch. Not sold on Crews as a coach. SLU is in an ideal location though and fits on all other criteria for a member. Richmond is also on the rise and is an ideal fit. VCU came down to earth this year and while Smart is a good upcoming coach not sure his style is all that well suited for the BE.

Take a serious look at the four again in 2016 and see how the landscape for all leagues are. Could be a better option than any of the four, but don't make a decision based on just one year. And take into consideration the head coach, his longevity at that program or the likelihood of going elsewhere. Butler situation comes to mind.

BTW I don't have a dog in this debate; just would like to see a strong BE and A-10 to compete with the BCS programs.

[stever20]

Why not add Gonzaga and UCLA, that way I could see my Bruins more often. Just kidding. But I would stay at 10 for a couple years to see how the teams progress. I truly believe that if Archie means what he says then Dayton is on the rise for the foreseeable future. Can't say I feel the same about SLU. Their collapse toward the end of the year was massive. Only reason the won the NC State game was NC State missed 15 free throws down the stretch. Not sold on Crews as a coach. SLU is in an ideal location though and fits on all other criteria for a member. Richmond is also on the rise and is an ideal fit. VCU came down to earth this year and while Smart is a good upcoming coach not sure his style is all that well suited for the BE.

Take a serious look at the four again in 2016 and see how the landscape for all leagues are. Could be a better option than any of the four, but don't make a decision based on just one year. And take into consideration the head coach, his longevity at that program or the likelihood of going elsewhere. Butler situation comes to mind.

BTW I don't have a dog in this debate; just would like to see a strong BE and A-10 to compete with the BCS programs.

VCU came down to earth? Getting a 5 seed and taking a flop call to lose a game in the NCAA tourney is coming down to earth? Are you serious. Richmond is 54-45 last 3 years- and improved by 1/2 game this year. Wow that's a huge rise.

And for the 1000th time, basketball has NOTHING to do with VCU getting in the Big East right now. If they were private, they would be in the big east right now. It's all a litmus test.

[jayelan]

Why not add Gonzaga and UCLA, that way I could see my Bruins more often. Just kidding. But I would stay at 10 for a couple years to see how the teams progress. I truly believe that if Archie means what he says then Dayton is on the rise for the foreseeable future. Can't say I feel the same about SLU. Their collapse toward the end of the year was massive. Only reason the won the NC State game was NC State missed 15 free throws down the stretch. Not sold on Crews as a coach. SLU is in an ideal location though and fits on all other criteria for a member. Richmond is also on the rise and is an ideal fit. VCU came down to earth this year and while Smart is a good upcoming coach not sure his style is all that well suited for the BE.

Take a serious look at the four again in 2016 and see how the landscape for all leagues are. Could be a better option than any of the four, but don't make a decision based on just one year. And take into consideration the head coach, his longevity at that program or the likelihood of going elsewhere. Butler situation comes to mind.

BTW I don't have a dog in this debate; just would like to see a strong BE and A-10 to compete with the BCS programs.

VCU came down to earth? Getting a 5 seed and taking a flop call to lose a game in the NCAA tourney is coming down to earth? Are you serious. Richmond is 54-45 last 3 years- and improved by 1/2 game this year. Wow that's a huge rise.

And for the 1000th time, basketball has NOTHING to do with VCU getting in the Big East right now. If they were private, they would be in the big east right now. It's all a litmus test.

Its your opinion vs mine. They were a hot commodity winning the A-10 and going to the final four. This year they didn't win the A-10 and lost to SFA in the first round. Don't matter how you lose it is still a "L". They had a very good year just not a stellar year and ergo they came back to earth. VCU lost their last two games of the year. Not the meltdown St Louis had but none the less not the stellar year they had the year before. And believe me the new VCU fans and friends I've met were expecting a repeat.

[stever20]

Why not add Gonzaga and UCLA, that way I could see my Bruins more often. Just kidding. But I would stay at 10 for a couple years to see how the teams progress. I truly believe that if Archie means what he says then Dayton is on the rise for the foreseeable future. Can't say I feel the same about SLU. Their collapse toward the end of the year was massive. Only reason the won the NC State game was NC State missed 15 free throws down the stretch. Not sold on Crews as a coach. SLU is in an ideal location though and fits on all other criteria for a member. Richmond is also on the rise and is an ideal fit. VCU came down to earth this year and while Smart is a good upcoming coach not sure his style is all that well suited for the BE.

Take a serious look at the four again in 2016 and see how the landscape for all leagues are. Could be a better option than any of the four, but don't make a decision based on just one year. And take into consideration the head coach, his longevity at that program or the likelihood of going elsewhere. Butler situation comes to mind.

BTW I don't have a dog in this debate; just would like to see a strong BE and A-10 to compete with the BCS programs.

VCU came down to earth? Getting a 5 seed and taking a flop call to lose a game in the NCAA tourney is coming down to earth? Are you serious. Richmond is 54-45 last 3 years- and improved by 1/2 game this year. Wow that's a huge rise.

And for the 1000th time, basketball has NOTHING to do with VCU getting in the Big East right now. If they were private, they would be in the big east right now. It's all a litmus test.

Its your opinion vs mine. They were a hot commodity winning the A-10 and going to the final four. This year they didn't win the A-10 and lost to SFA in the first round. Don't matter how you lose it is still a "L". They had a very good year just not a stellar year and ergo they came back to earth. VCU lost their last two games of the year. Not the meltdown St Louis had but none the less not the stellar year they had the year before. And believe me the new VCU fans and friends I've met were expecting a repeat.

They won 1 fewer game this year than last year, but finished with a higher Ken Pom rating. They've NEVER won the A10. NEVER.

[ruechalgrin]

We can like it or not (and I have hated in years like 2010 when Dayton won the NIT, was #18 in kenpom, and poised to make a deep run in the NCAA if selected); but conferences and teams are judged on NCAA wins. Totally arbitrary and makes the luck factor absolutely enormous, but it is the case. Also understand IF and WHEN BE expands, more than NCAA wins will matter -- BE will look at TV market (and college basketball tv watches in market), fans, traveling fans, academics, endowment, public/private, geographic location, etc.

A case could be made for Dayton, St. Louis, VCU, or Richmond if expansion occurs -- all would be solid selections. Regarding NCAA wins and appearances, out of the 4 schools.

St. Louis has not been to the Elite 8 since 1952 (their one and only winning 1 game to get there) and has 2 Sweet 16 appearances in 1952 and 1957. They are 5-9 in the NCAA tournament all-time with 2 wins in 10 years, 4 in 20 years, 4 wins in 30 years, and 5 wins in 30+ years. Richmond is 8-9 all time NCAA with 2 Sweet 16s in 1988 and 2011, but No Elite 8s. Richmond's 8 wins have come with 2 in 10 years, 3 in 20 years, 8 in 30 years. VCU is 12-12 NCAA with 1 Final 4/Elite/Sweet 16 in 2011. 8 Wins last 10 years (5 during 2011 run), but wow great 10 years, 8 in 20 years, 10 in 30 years, and 2 other wins 30+ years.

Dayton 17-17 all-time NCAA (most wins and most games). 7 Sweet 16s (more than the 5 of St. Louis, Richmond, and VCU combined), 3 Elite 8s (more than the 3 schools combined which have St. Louis in 1952 and VCU in 2011), 1 Final 4 (same as 3 schools combined with VCU 1 in 2011), 1 Championship Game (other 3 schools zero). 4 Wins 10 Years, 4 20 years (yes 1994-2004 a disaster), 8 in 30 years, and 9 more wins 30+ years making the 17.

BTW, for the Creighton fans who I respect deeply (just wish we would have gotten the nod over you last year), I think your NCAA profile is pretty similar to Dayton's. You are in the BE and have done a great job as a basketball school so not rehashing who should have gotten in BE. I am just saying if you believe Dayton is a mid-major because lack of NCAA success, you are saying basically the same thing about Creighton. Creighton is 12-20 all time in the NCAA (and taking out games where lost Sweet 16, but played consolation games in which Creighton is 3-1, the BlueJays are 9-19). Creighton's 12 wins were 3 in the last 10 years, 5 in the last 20 years, 6 in the last 30 years, and other 6 wins more than 30+ years ago making 12. Creighton's Elite 8 was in 1941, Sweet 16s in 1941, 1962, 1964, and 1974. So Dayton and Creighton same amount of wins the last 10 years, Creighton +1 win last 20 years, and Dayton +3 last 30 years. Creighton more NCAA appearances, but Dayton more # and more recent deep runs as Creighton's Last Sweet 16 in 1974 (Dayton 1974, 1984, and 2014) and last Elite 8 in 1941 (Dayton 1967, 1984, and 2014).

Again, to emphasize, not trolling here and understand that Creighton is in already, just arguing Dayton's and Creighton's NCAA profiles are similar and Dayton's is better than St. Louis and Richmond and arguably similar to VCU with Dayton more long-term and short term (meaning this year) success whereas VCU more mid-term success.

P.S. Stats taken from wikipedia so a thousand apologizes if any are incorrect.

[BEX]

I guess if Fox wants to pony up another 100 mill, the Presidents will discuss again. Don't see it happening.

[stever20]

I guess if Fox wants to pony up another 100 mill, the Presidents will discuss again. Don't see it happening.

This is an interesting thought. What if Fox says we don't want expansion. Say FS1 gets NBA and Big Ten, which helps the programming piece a lot and eliminates a lot of the problems FS1 has.

[Jet915]

I guess if Fox wants to pony up another 100 mill, the Presidents will discuss again. Don't see it happening.

This is an interesting thought. What if Fox says we don't want expansion. Say FS1 gets NBA and Big Ten, which helps the programming piece a lot and eliminates a lot of the problems FS1 has.

If Fox won't pony up more money, I highly doubt we would expand. No way are we gonna take less money per team for the sake of expansion.

[marquette]

Always going to depend on how the contract is written.