Non-Big East Conference Realignment Thread v. 2017

[Hall2012]

Maybe I'm misremembering again, but I thought the original plan was for UConn to go to the ACC along with Syracuse. However, Boston College blocked them so they got replaced by Pitt.

I'm by no means saying UConn is solely responsible - there are plenty of parties responsible for the breakup of the old Big East, but I don't believe that they're totally innocent either and just got screwed by everyone else (the C7 in particular, as many of their fans claim).

[Bill Marsh]

Maybe I'm misremembering again, but I thought the original plan was for UConn to go to the ACC along with Syracuse. However, Boston College blocked them so they got replaced by Pitt.

I'm by no means saying UConn is solely responsible - there are plenty of parties responsible for the breakup of the old Big East, but I don't believe that they're totally innocent either and just got screwed by everyone else (the C7 in particular, as many of their fans claim).

I never heard that, which probes absolutely nothing. I don't know how BC could have blocked anything. They're only one vote.

What I have read is that the Pitt + Syracuse move to the ACC was put together in a matter of days, which is why it caught everyone by surprise. It was not the long, drawn out affair that the Miami + VA Tech and later BC expansion had been in 2003. My understanding is that Pitt Pres Nordenberg was instrumental in making it happen. So again, not likely that Pitt was a replacement for UConn under that scenario. In addition, BC AD Gene DeFilippo later told the world that ESPN dictated who the expansion additions would be. That's more evidence that they targeted Pitt and Syracuse. If ESPN was calling the shots, there weren't changes being made by the ACC. Finally there were rumors at the time that the Big XII had their eye on Pitt and that the ACC took Pitt to block any further incursions by the Big XII into the East.

[NJRedman]

Apparently from a Cuse blog the Orange and Pitt were in the dark about the other one joining the ACC with them.

http://www.syracuse.com/orangesports/in ... split.html

He (Gross) said he didn't know Pittsburgh was having conversations with the ACC, or whether reports that later appeared in the Boston Globe that UConn had been blocked by Boston College were true.

"We were kind of in our own personal vacuum," Gross said.

McMurphy said the talks were kept so quiet that, on the night the news broke, the Big East's top officials were stunned.

[Bill Marsh]

Apparently from a Cuse blog the Orange and Pitt were in the dark about the other one joining the ACC with them.

http://www.syracuse.com/orangesports/in ... split.html

He (Gross) said he didn't know Pittsburgh was having conversations with the ACC, or whether reports that later appeared in the Boston Globe that UConn had been blocked by Boston College were true.

"We were kind of in our own personal vacuum," Gross said.

McMurphy said the talks were kept so quiet that, on the night the news broke, the Big East's top officials were stunned.

Two points about that:

1. Sources for the Globe story were obviously from BC. (Where else would a Boston reporter get ACC news?) Especially under DeFilippo, BC had a lot of animus toward UConn because of the lawsuit for which UConn bore the brunt of the criticism on behalf of the rest of the league. I wouldn't consider that story reliable because DeFilippo was heavily invested in making it appear that BC would be able to block UConn forever. BC was also motivated by an interest in getting as much of the New England market as possible and by an interest in protecting the regional recruiting base. As a result there was a lot of posturing by BC, which has to be taken with a large grain of salt.

2. The fact that Big East officials were stunned speaks directly to the treachery perpetrated by Nordenberg. As Chair of the Executive Committee, he had a clear conflict of interests between pursuing what was best for Pitt and doing what was best for the league. He should have resigned immediately upon engaging in any talks with the ACC and should have told the rest of the Big East why. If he wasn't going to resign, then it was incumbent to keep Big East officials informed, which he didn't do. He kept them completely in the dark.

[NJRedman]

Apparently from a Cuse blog the Orange and Pitt were in the dark about the other one joining the ACC with them.

http://www.syracuse.com/orangesports/in ... split.html

He (Gross) said he didn't know Pittsburgh was having conversations with the ACC, or whether reports that later appeared in the Boston Globe that UConn had been blocked by Boston College were true.

"We were kind of in our own personal vacuum," Gross said.

McMurphy said the talks were kept so quiet that, on the night the news broke, the Big East's top officials were stunned.

Two points about that:

1. Sources for the Globe story were obviously from BC. (Where else would a Boston reporter get ACC news?) Especially under DeFilippo had a lot of animus toward UConn because they bore the brunt of the criticism as a result of the lawsuit on behalf of the rest of the league. I wouldn't consider that story reliable because DeFilippo was heavily invested in making it appear that BC would be able to block UConn forever. BC's motivation was also motivated by an interest in getting as much of the New England market as possible and by an interest in protecting the regional base. As a result there was. A. Lot of posturing going on at BC, which has to be taken with a large grain of salt.

2. The fact that Big East officials were stunned speaks directly to the treachery perpetrated by Nordenberg. As Chair of the Executive Committee, he had a clear conflict of interests between pursuing what was best for Pitt and doing what was best for the league. He should have resigned immediately upon engaging in any talks with the ACC and should have told the rest of the Big East why. If he wasn't going to re-sign, then it was incumbent to keep Big East officials informed, which he didn't do. He kept them completely in the dark.

Yeah, Pitt acted really unethically but if you ask their fans they believe they did everything they could to save the league. haha

[billyjack]

While they were far from being the worst schools when it came to realignment, UConn's and Cincinnati's actions in late 2012 were the last straws in the C-7's decision to leave. West Virginia and Pitt in 2011 were clearly the biggest snakes. BC and Miami (Fla) were the biggest snakes in 2004.

After Louisville left a few days past Thanksgiving 2012, and even after Tulane was added the next day, there was still a chance for the remaining schools to show solidarity and keep the hybrid conference together.

What the remaining 12+ of us needed was to show solidarity, put out a statement about the strong bond between us all, and move forward together.

Instead, in the first days of Dec 2012, we heard of a Powerpoint presentation email sent by Cincinnati to the ACC; and we had the UConn president, Herbst, and some other UConn guy whose name I've forgotten, literally begging for an ACC invitation into every microphone and every newspaper they could find. This went on for like 10 days. I mean, wow, it was embarrassing. For this entire week and a half or so, the C-7 was asking Herbst to STFU, but she kept on babbling. This was around the time of the Newtown tragedy.

At that point, the C-7 had just had enough. It was obvious that UConn and Cincinnati would continue to beg into the indefinite future. This football bullsh-t was just not going to end. So we got the hell out by mid December.

Our leap took some serious brass balls, looking back. I think 99% of Big East hoops schools' fans were thrilled. I was totally in favor of the move. But there were like 500 dangerous hurdles that we had to jump.

Anyway, Herbst's begging at UConn and Cincinnati's Powerpoint showed that they would ditch the C-7 at the first opportunity. Here in 2017, I'm generally in favor of UConn going indie in football and joining the Big East. However, as I've typed this post I'm taken back to a time where these crackhead football schools were so cut-throat and dishonest, that i can be swayed into not wanting UConn back.

One other thing, which is kind of a circular thought... if UConn doesn't have the cajones to go indie in football, then i don't want them. But if they show some balls and go indie, trust in their brand, then I'd be more apt to support them.

[crussomd]

Hi all, Longtime reader first time poster but I had to register to add to this thread. IMO you are all setting your goals way too low. UCONN who the hell needs them? We don't need a middling academic state school who has delusional dreams of grandeur regarding their football program regardless of how good their basketball program is (was).

I say we stay exactly where we are and if we are so lucky that the ACC implodes down the road maybe we can hope to have Duke and Wake fall into our laps. Maybe ND stays independent in football and joins us in all other sports. If we are going to change the league that is working so great it has to be for some scenario like that. In a scenario like that I would even consider adding an academic superstar school like (hopkins) along with the other 3, even if they don;t currently play D1 basketball.

We should build a brand around all private schools with great academics and great fun to watch basketball. I love college BB but in the end it is about the entire university and we should seek to not only grow the basketball tradition but raise the caliber and reputation of the schools we associate with.

Eventually I would like to see the majority of our schools all play FCS football and compete in the big east against each other for bragging rights. We are never going to compete with the ohio states and alabamas of the world and it is a big waste of time, money and energy to try. But if we all has competitive fcs programs; would i drive down from CT to Nova to see the wildcats play the hoyas for a homecoming football game. Damn straight.

[Bill Marsh]

While they were far from being the worst schools when it came to realignment, UConn's and Cincinnati's actions in late 2012 were the last straws in the C-7's decision to leave. West Virginia and Pitt in 2011 were clearly the biggest snakes. BC and Miami (Fla) were the biggest snakes in 2004.

After Louisville left a few days past Thanksgiving 2012, and even after Tulane was added the next day, there was still a chance for the remaining schools to show solidarity and keep the hybrid conference together.

What the remaining 12+ of us needed was to show solidarity, put out a statement about the strong bond between us all, and move forward together.

Instead, in the first days of Dec 2012, we heard of a Powerpoint presentation email sent by Cincinnati to the ACC; and we had the UConn president, Herbst, and some other UConn guy whose name I've forgotten, literally begging for an ACC invitation into every microphone and every newspaper they could find. This went on for like 10 days. I mean, wow, it was embarrassing. For this entire week and a half or so, the C-7 was asking Herbst to STFU, but she kept on babbling. This was around the time of the Newtown tragedy.

At that point, the C-7 had just had enough. It was obvious that UConn and Cincinnati would continue to beg into the indefinite future. This football bullsh-t was just not going to end. So we got the hell out by mid December.

Our leap took some serious brass balls, looking back. I think 99% of Big East hoops schools' fans were thrilled. I was totally in favor of the move. But there were like 500 dangerous hurdles that we had to jump.

Anyway, Herbst's begging at UConn and Cincinnati's Powerpoint showed that they would ditch the C-7 at the first opportunity. Here in 2017, I'm generally in favor of UConn going indie in football and joining the Big East. However, as I've typed this post I'm taken back to a time where these crackhead football schools were so cut-throat and dishonest, that i can be swayed into not wanting UConn back.

One other thing, which is kind of a circular thought... if UConn doesn't have the cajones to go indie in football, then i don't want them. But if they show some balls and go indie, trust in their brand, then I'd be more apt to support them.

Billy Jack, there's no doubt that you're right about all of that. Let me throw a few other factors into the mix of developments in 2012:

March - Reports began to circulate that Fox was planning to start a Fox Sports cable channel (FS1) by August, 2013.

May - Marinatto resigned as Commissioner, signaling just how unworkable things had become.
May - Louisville made a public announcement that they were seeking membership in either the ACC or the Big XII. UConn remained committed to the Big East in its public position but rumors began to circulate that they too were looking elsewhere.

September - Notre Dame announced that it was joining the ACC for all sports except football.

November - Rutgers announced that it was leaving the Big East to join the Big Ten along with Maryland. Within weeks, the ACC announced that it was replacing Maryland with Louisville. The Big East responded by inviting Tulane and East Carolina as full members for all sports.

I don't know that any one of these was more important than another, but there is no doubt that the invitations to Tulane and East Carolina, 2 of the worst basketball programs on the planet, were the last straw for the C7. There is no way they wanted to be in a basketball conference with those guys.

I have to think that discussions among the C7 became serious in the spring. Marinatto was close with that group and I'm sure he told them the writing that was on the wall. With the Louisville announcement, it became obvious that the hybrid would not hold together if it was not obvious already. That was particularly significant for the C7 because of Louisville's prominence as a basketball power. Then the exodus of Notre Dame, the nation's most prominent Catholic school and a major football school ally to the C7 made it clear to them that the C7 were on their own. The surprising loss of Rutgers further eroded the Big East's presence in its traditional East Coast footprint.

As embarrassing as it was for UConn to be pimping itself out, that was simply a sign of the times and was no different than what Louisville was doing - as well as Cincinnati. At some point the C7 took a reality check, saw where things were headed and pursued what was in their own best interests, which was the opportunity created by the emergence of FS1. Timing couldn't have been better.

[Bill Marsh]

Hi all, Longtime reader first time poster but I had to register to add to this thread. IMO you are all setting your goals way too low. UCONN who the hell needs them? We don't need a middling academic state school who has delusional dreams of grandeur regarding their football program regardless of how good their basketball program is (was).

I say we stay exactly where we are and if we are so lucky that the ACC implodes down the road maybe we can hope to have Duke and Wake fall into our laps. Maybe ND stays independent in football and joins us in all other sports. If we are going to change the league that is working so great it has to be for some scenario like that. In a scenario like that I would even consider adding an academic superstar school like (hopkins) along with the other 3, even if they don;t currently play D1 basketball.

We should build a brand around all private schools with great academics and great fun to watch basketball. I love college BB but in the end it is about the entire university and we should seek to not only grow the basketball tradition but raise the caliber and reputation of the schools we associate with.

Eventually I would like to see the majority of our schools all play FCS football and compete in the big east against each other for bragging rights. We are never going to compete with the ohio states and alabamas of the world and it is a big waste of time, money and energy to try. But if we all has competitive fcs programs; would i drive down from CT to Nova to see the wildcats play the hoyas for a homecoming football game. Damn straight.

The ACC will not implode. They have won the war.

The competition between the ACC and the Big XII for the 4th position among the power football conferences has been one of the undercovered elements of realignment. The ACC was brilliant in its strategy and outmanuveured the Big XII at every turn.

When realignment began in 2010, the largest major conference was 12 schools. The PAC-10 made an effort to split off 6 schools from the Big XII and jump to 16 members. The effort failed, but the PAC-10 expanded to 12 with Colorado and Utah wile the Big Ten expanded to 12 with Nebraska. In the process theBig XII shrunk to 10, but 12 became the new standard.

In 2011, the Big XII was looking to rebuild itself to 12 and was looking for candidates. They seemed oblivious to the possibility that conference's might expand beyond 12 and seemed to think that they would have the pick of what was out there. Rumors circulated that they were interested in Pitt of the Big East. In light of their eventual addition of West Virginia, the Pitt rumors see, very credible in retrospect as the 2 would have made perfect travel partners and would have brought an established rivalry. Before the Big XII acted, the ACC swooped in and grabbed Pitt along with Syracuse to expand to 14. With its focus myopically on football only, the Big XII added WVU without a travel partner and added the next best football program TCU, ignoring Louisville and leaving the Mountaineers on an island.

At the same time that the ACC beat the Big XII to Pitt, the SEC also decided to expand to 14 by first poaching Texas A&M from the Big XII and then Missouri. Before the Big XII had returned to 12, they were back down to 10. Fourteen had become the new standard and a year later the Big Ten also expanded to 14 by adding Maryland and Rutgers. The ACC responded by replacing Maryland with Louisville, sealing the Big XII's fate as a conference of 10 with West Virginia on an island with no geographic rival and travel partner.

Throughout this period of uncertainty, there was very much competition between the ACC and the Big XII. There were rumors that the Big XII would add Notre Dame, but the ACC moved first with a deal favorable to ND's interests. There were rumors that the Big XII would move into Florida by convincing Florida State that its football interests could be better met in the Big XII. But the ACC met FSU's needs by strengthening its football with the addition of Louisville instead of UConn and kept Florida State in the process.

Internal fighting weakened the Big XII while smart planning and unity advanced the interests of the ACC. The ACC has clearly emerged as the stronger conference going forward while the Big XII continues to be plagued by rumors of potential defections, starting with Oklahoma. There will be no ACC implosion suddenly making Duke and Wake available as basketball-only candidates. The ACC is now strong and whole.

Back when the Big East was imploding, the Big XII thought it had a real opportunity to expand into the East, thinking that the other conferences were set at 12. Has the ACC not grabbed Pitt, they might have done it. Imagine a Big XII with Pitt instead of TCU and with the potential to add 2 more eastern schools to Pitt and West Virginia. At the time, the Big XII thought that Syracuse, Rutgers, and Louisville would all be available, and that they could add 2 of the 3. Maybe even Notre Dame. Imagine a Big XII with only 8 out in the Great Plains and an eastern wing if 4-6 schools. That's what they were thinking before the ACC blocked them and the SEC and B1G further thwarted their plans.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

The ACC will not implode. They have won the war.

Excellent post Bill.

ACC experiences record revenue growth – The (Raleigh NC) New & Observer – June10, 2016

The ACC is generating more revenue than it ever has, but the gap between it and the richest of the rich college sports conferences remains tens of millions of dollars wide, according to an analysis of federal tax returns.

During the ACC’s 2014-2015 fiscal year, the conference reported a record $403.1 million in revenue, which allowed it to disperse approximately $373 million to its member schools.

The ACC’s $403.1 million of revenue ranked fourth among the Power 5 conferences, ahead of the Big 12’s $267.8 million . . .

In the ACC, each of the 14 schools that received a full share of conference revenue – every one except Notre Dame, which is a part-time member that remains independent in football – received an average of $26.2 million in conference revenue, according to a tax filing the ACC recently released. Notre Dame received $6.2 million.

The Big 12 distributed $227.2 million to its 10 members, which received an average of $22.7 million in league revenue.

More than half of the ACC’s $403.1 million of revenue – 54 percent – came from its broadcast rights. The ACC’s contract with ESPN runs through the 2026-27 college sports calendar. The league and ESPN renegotiated the contract after Notre Dame became a part-time ACC member, and so it’s unlikely that the league would receive another significant jump in base TV revenue before the deal expires.

The very lengthy article quoted above is well worth a read.