BIGEAST schedule released

[NovaBall]

So15 national weekend games? That's awesome. So glad we left espn.

Espn would have had us buried with some big Monday and Saturday games (maybe) and a bunch if espn2 and espnu games. That would have sucked. So glad that fox treats us with the respect we deserve.

Hey Stever, st John's doesn't get to control who plays at MSG, but they can offer other teams an opportunity to play there. So sure, Duke can play at MSG in other events if they want, so can cuse, but having a relationship with St. John's makes it easier for those teams to play games in NYC.

[stever20]

So15 national weekend games? That's awesome. So glad we left espn.

Espn would have had us buried with some big Monday and Saturday games (maybe) and a bunch if espn2 and espnu games. That would have sucked. So glad that fox treats us with the respect we deserve.

Hey Stever, st John's doesn't get to control who plays at MSG, but they can offer other teams an opportunity to play there. So sure, Duke can play at MSG in other events if they want, so can cuse, but having a relationship with St. John's makes it easier for those teams to play games in NYC.

It makes it easier, but it's not paramount. I mean look at UConn. They've played at MSG all 3 years now and haven't played St John's once. ESPN clearly helps in making that happen. It's definitely not like what Gumby said. St John's can't say ("sorry Pitt, screw you, we're not giving you an opportunity to play a game in a desired recruiting area..go call Fordham"). Just look this year. Pitt is playing at MSG and not playing St John's.

[billyjack]

Playing non-conference vs St John's at MSG offers the chance to play in January or February, against NYC's premier basketball school. This is what Duke sets up.

Pitt, on the other hand, is scheduled at MSG this year in December, against Davidson. Completely different situation. Minimum attention or traction.

Other non-BE schools not playing the Johnnies, but scheduled at MSG would be playing in November, in the Jimmy V or whatever. According to football fans, no one pays attention to college hoops in November or December.

Meanwhile, each of the 10 of us play *at least* 3 games in Metro NYC, all in Jan, Feb or March.

Pitt in December vs Davidson ---> no one cares.
Pitt in January vs Johnnies ---> people notice.
That's exactly why Coach K and Boeheim play SJU.

[stever20]

[quote="billyjack"]Playing non-conference vs St John's at MSG offers the chance to play in January or February, against NYC's premier basketball school. This is what Duke sets up.

Pitt, on the other hand, is scheduled at MSG this year in December, against Davidson. Completely different situation. Minimum attention or traction.

Other non-BE schools not playing the Johnnies, but scheduled at MSG would be playing in November, in the Jimmy V or whatever. According to football fans, no one pays attention to college hoops in November or December.

Meanwhile, each of the 10 of us play *at least* 3 games in Metro NYC, all in Jan, Feb or March.

Pitt in December vs Davidson ---> no one cares.
Pitt in January vs Johnnies ---> people notice.
That's exactly why Coach K and Boeheim play SJU.[/quote

Except that St John's normally doesn't play OOC games in Jan. Last year vs Duke was the exception.

last 10 years here's St John's non Nov/Dec home OOC games
2015- Duke
2014- Dartmouth
2012- UCLA
2011- Duke
2009- Duke
2006- Duke

So Duke is thinking like that. But none of the others do.

And like this year... What is the difference in:
UConn vs Maryland Dec 8
Syracuse @ St John's Dec 13
Duke vs Utah Dec 19
Pittsburgh vs Davidson Dec 20

How is Syracuse getting any extra benefit from playing St John's? If anything I'd rather have what UConn or Duke have in that it's not competing with the NFL.

[stever20]

Also frankly, just getting 1 game at MSG is big enough. Schools like Pitt, UConn, WVU, etc. can still sell that they play games in NYC pretty regularly, even with not playing St John's. Definitely not what Gumby was saying now is it?

Also regarding the college football- there is about a 3 week period in December- where basketball does kind of take over. In between College football regular season and major bowls. That's when a lot of the MSG games are.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Also, UConn and WVU play at MSG with the Jimmy V Classic.

At times, I don't even think MSG really controls things. I mean take the Jimmy V classic. I am pretty sure that it's ESPN that determines who is playing in that, not MSG. Same with the Exempt tournaments. I'll say this- St John's definitely doesn't control who plays in MSG.

And neither does any other team, you have to be invited to those things and if you're not your best bet is signing a deal with SJU. You can't play in the same preseason tourney two seasons in a row. Pitt isn't going to play at MSG every year. Duke could probably pull it off but not many others can.

MSG and out location is a good draw when signing OOC deals. Just within the last 5 years we've had home and homes with programs like Duke,UCLA and Syracuse. Good teams will play us as means to play in NYC.

No problem with that- but St John's can't just say we are going to not play Syracuse, and Syracuse isn't going to be able to play at MSG. St John's doesn't hold as much leverage as what Gumby was saying. I mean, look at UConn. This is I think the 3rd straight year since leaving the Big East that they are playing at MSG, with no games vs St John's. And a HUGE part of that frankly is ESPN. Also with Barclay's Center around, NYC is far more open city than it's ever been.

These schools are going to get to play at MSG no matter what, so St John's can't just cut their nose off to spite their face.

Maybe you misread or I did not communicate clearly. I don't think anywhere in my post did I mention that SJU owns MSG and all of the preseason tourneys, etc. I simply stated that SJU has an advantage of being in NYC and playing their home games in MSG. They could pretty much reach out to anyone in the B10, or the ACC and get a premier game. I just commented that I hope they use that to their advantage and schedule teams like Duke/Syr/Mich St/UK/KU (the teams that move the needle) as opposed to teams like Pitt or WVU, who don't move the needle, but are desperate to retain some sort of relevance in that area. I think NJRedman and others have captured the point I was trying to make.

[stever20]

Maybe you misread or I did not communicate clearly. I don't think anywhere in my post did I mention that SJU owns MSG and all of the preseason tourneys, etc. I simply stated that SJU has an advantage of being in NYC and playing their home games in MSG. They could pretty much reach out to anyone in the B10, or the ACC and get a premier game. I just commented that I hope they use that to their advantage and schedule teams like Duke/Syr/Mich St/UK/KU (the teams that move the needle) as opposed to teams like Pitt or WVU, who don't move the needle, but are desperate to retain some sort of relevance in that area. I think NJRedman and others have captured the point I was trying to make.

Here is what you said:
I would like to see SJU use it to their advantage ("come to SJU and play in the BE and against Duke, Syr, UK at the Garden") but not allow others to use it to their advantage ("sorry Pitt, screw you, we're not giving you an opportunity to play a game in a desired recruiting area..go call Fordham").

The bottom line is that St John's can't by itself keep anyone from playing in NYC. Like I've said, just look at UConn. They have played 5 games in the NYC area regular season the last 3 years- with none being vs St John's. So St John's can't look at anyone and say play us or screw you, you can't play in your desired recruiting area. They just can't. So IMO, St John's would be far better signing the deals with UConn and getting the benefit of playing UConn then not, and having UConn get the benefits of playing in NYC anyways. St John's can't keep teams from playing in NYC, and even moreso at MSG.

[billyjack]

Maybe you misread or I did not communicate clearly. I don't think anywhere in my post did I mention that SJU owns MSG and all of the preseason tourneys, etc. I simply stated that SJU has an advantage of being in NYC and playing their home games in MSG. They could pretty much reach out to anyone in the B10, or the ACC and get a premier game. I just commented that I hope they use that to their advantage and schedule teams like Duke/Syr/Mich St/UK/KU (the teams that move the needle) as opposed to teams like Pitt or WVU, who don't move the needle, but are desperate to retain some sort of relevance in that area. I think NJRedman and others have captured the point I was trying to make.

Here is what you said:
I would like to see SJU use it to their advantage ("come to SJU and play in the BE and against Duke, Syr, UK at the Garden") but not allow others to use it to their advantage ("sorry Pitt, screw you, we're not giving you an opportunity to play a game in a desired recruiting area... go call Fordham").

The bottom line is that St John's can't by itself keep anyone from playing in NYC. Like I've said, just look at UConn. They have played 5 games in the NYC area regular season the last 3 years- with none being vs St John's. So St John's can't look at anyone and say play us or screw you, you can't play in your desired recruiting area. They just can't. So IMO, St John's would be far better signing the deals with UConn and getting the benefit of playing UConn then not, and having UConn get the benefits of playing in NYC anyways. St John's can't keep teams from playing in NYC, and even moreso at MSG.

What Gumby wrote is actually happening. Top programs like UK, Duke, Syracuse and UConn can play at MSG each year. Teams a notch below, like Pitt or West Virginia, play at MSG maybe once every 2 or 3 years at most. Not sure about Notre Dame. Boston College has played at MSG maybe once since leaving us...? So each of those teams would be better off working with St John's.

Pitt is so desperate to play at MSG and/or NYC, they entered the "Gotham Classic" this year. The "Gotham" is a 5 team round robin tourney... the format of the tourney has Pitt hosting Western Carolina, Morehead State and Eastern Washington at home. Then they play at MSG vs Davidson. They really would have been better off actually if they had just called Fordham. Pitt has 1 player on their roster from metro NYC, and he was recruited during Pitt's Big East days. They used to recruit heavily in NY.

West Virginia has 2 NYC players on their roster. Five years ago I think their starting 5 was from metro NYC.

And December, by the way, is several notches below Jan-Feb-March for exposure and eyeballs and traction in college hoops.

[stever20]

Maybe you misread or I did not communicate clearly. I don't think anywhere in my post did I mention that SJU owns MSG and all of the preseason tourneys, etc. I simply stated that SJU has an advantage of being in NYC and playing their home games in MSG. They could pretty much reach out to anyone in the B10, or the ACC and get a premier game. I just commented that I hope they use that to their advantage and schedule teams like Duke/Syr/Mich St/UK/KU (the teams that move the needle) as opposed to teams like Pitt or WVU, who don't move the needle, but are desperate to retain some sort of relevance in that area. I think NJRedman and others have captured the point I was trying to make.

Here is what you said:
I would like to see SJU use it to their advantage ("come to SJU and play in the BE and against Duke, Syr, UK at the Garden") but not allow others to use it to their advantage ("sorry Pitt, screw you, we're not giving you an opportunity to play a game in a desired recruiting area... go call Fordham").

The bottom line is that St John's can't by itself keep anyone from playing in NYC. Like I've said, just look at UConn. They have played 5 games in the NYC area regular season the last 3 years- with none being vs St John's. So St John's can't look at anyone and say play us or screw you, you can't play in your desired recruiting area. They just can't. So IMO, St John's would be far better signing the deals with UConn and getting the benefit of playing UConn then not, and having UConn get the benefits of playing in NYC anyways. St John's can't keep teams from playing in NYC, and even moreso at MSG.

What Gumby wrote is actually what is happening. Top programs like UK, Duke, Syracuse and UConn can play at MSG each year. Teams a notch below, like Pitt or West Virginia, play at MSG maybe once every 2 or 3 years at most. Not sure about Notre Dame. Boston College has played at MSG maybe once since leaving us...? So each of those teams would be better off working with St John's.

Pitt is so desperate to play at MSG and/or NYC, they entered the "Gotham Classic" this year. The "Gotham" is a 5 team round robin tourney... the format of the tourney has Pitt hosting Western Carolina, Morehead State and Eastern Washington at home. Then they play at MSG vs Davidson. Pitt has 1 player on their roster from metro NYC, and he was recruited during Pitt's Big East days. They used to recruit heavily in NY.

West Virginia has 2 NYC players on their roster. Five years ago I think their starting 5 was from metro NYC.

And December, by the way, is several notches below Jan-Feb-March for exposure and eyeballs and traction in college hoops.

This is Pitt's 2nd time playing in MSG in 3 years since leaving the Big East. It's the 2nd straight year for WVU playing in MSG- and 3rd in 4 years playing in NYC since leaving the Big East. So it's hardly once every 2-3 years at the most. And neither have played St John's.

What Gumby said- St John's says we aren't playing you and therefore unless you play Fordham, you don't get to play in NYC. That's just not the case at all.

[stever20]

remember also with Pitt, they almost always schedule soft OOC. This year they have Gonzaga and Purdue. The other 3 games of the Gotham Classic are their normal cupcake type of games.

My point is pretty simple. St John's should be scheduling for what they want OOC. Not in trying to block schools from playing games in NYC.