UConn approaching a fork in the road

[GoldenWarrior11]

I admittedly just skimmed it and read other articles that said it is likely to be passed. Not sure why any other Football 5 conferences would say no. It would remove the likelihood at least on the short term that the B12 would poach from either the ACC or SEC.

Well they wouldn't want the Big XII to get to get it's two best teams to play each other and steal a possible playoff spot from one of the other FB 5 champs. Right now the other 4 have an advantage. The Pac-12 petitioned for a CCG without going to 12 and the Big XII (who was at 12 at the time) along with the other 3 FB 5 conferences shot the idea down. They might go for the ACC's idea of just taking the two best teams and making that the CCG instead of division winners, but I don't think these guys want to do the Big XII a solid and let them stay at 10 teams. The Pac-12 wants Texas and OU. Giving them what they want means neither will be looking to leave soon even after the GoR is up.

I don't necessarily agree that the other conferences will not allow the Big 12 to hold a CCG with ten teams, but you have a goodpoint about past voting on this issue. Remember back in 2003 when the ACC attempted to expand to 12 with MIA, BC, and SYR, but got just VT and MIA? That put them at 11 for the 2004-05 season. The ACC did petition to be able to have a CCG with 11 schools, but was denied. So, later in 2003, the ACC grabbed BC from under Tranghese's nose. I mention this because it does validate your point about how the Pac-12 attempted to get a CCG with just 10 teams.

I would say that the landscape has changed since 2002. Back then, all of the major conferences were battling each other for superiority over one another. Today, the major conferences (P5) are trying to trim the fat and lock out the mid-majors (G5) from their big fancy house. They want all the exposure, the money and the bowl games, not to mention the ability for self-regulation. 10-15 years ago, these conferences needed the NCAA. Today, not so much - as autonomy is inching closer and closer.

[Mullin Mania]

Despite what people say about never giving up football, they will at least have to store it in some crappy conference and join the Big East for all others if they don't get that F5 invite. Assuming they don't get the invite it will be forced on them to move everything else to the Big East unless they don't mind being a mid major.

[Bill Marsh]

even if it passes, you're going to have a regular season and conf championship champ in a 10 team conference in football? That's just crazy. Just for giggles let's go back in time and look at the Big 10 when it was the Big 2 and little 8. Michigan and Ohio St play the last week of the season and then have a rematch 2 weeks later? And how many years would that have happened? You really need 2 divisions to pull the Conference Championship or the Championship will have no fan appeal and who gets bragging rights and BCS points the team that wins last? What if Ohio St wins by 21 at home and loses by a FG in the Championship. The league that chooses this route will set their affiliates up for misery and make the committees life miserable. I'm guessing the scenario above would send the cmt looking to the SEC, Big12 or PAC for a better candidate for the playoffs.

Do you really think they've thought it through that thoroughly?

Truth be told, I'm sure not but the harder they try the more frustrated they'll become becasue it's impossible to predict unintended consequences. Our case study is not very large ( last years B1G Championship sling shots Big 12), the B1G didn't expand knowing this would pay this kind of dividend for Ohio State because no one could predict a beat down like that in a Championship game. The ACC expanded to destroy the Big East but they didn't realize they were destroying their brand in many of their fans hearts. My friends in Carolina don't get playing BC, Syracuse, Pitt and Louisville.

You've made great points in both of your posts on this topic. I really enjoyed reading them. Thanks for the posts.

[Bill Marsh]

As a Connecticut resident and a sometimes UConn season ticket holder, I have been the first to say that UConn will stay the course with football and the AAC to maintain its viability as a candidate for a P5 conference.

As the result of a recent op-ed in cut viewpoints.org, I am beginning to have my doubts.

1. Financial concerns: in a recent year cited in the article, UConn subsidized it's athletic programs to the tune of $15 million, or 25% of a budget which already includes $6 million of university contributions.

4. Concerns about the welfare of football players as the result of numerous reports on concussions and other brain injury in the sport.

As I said at the beginning, I have been dismissive of claims that UConn may become available to the Big East. I am reversing my position. /

Interesting post BillM. I know that you have been somewhat steadfast in your opinions that UCONN was off the table for BE membership for any foreseeable future. I find points #'s 1 & #4 most interesting.

Let's start with # 4 first. With the recent NFL settlements on head injuries I think it is a matter of time before the NCAA and individual institutions are faced with similar litigation. If we know anything about our legal system is that when trial lawyers smell blood in the water they attack and they normally target those organizations with lots of cash (to either settle or bleed). Where is all the cash in college sports these days? And it IS a serious issue with major college football any way. It is why mothers don't want their kids playing FB, and why short term diagnoses and long-term care for head injuries are becoming so important. It's one thing to profit off the back of these young kids without compensating them--it's another to knowingly put them in positions to suffer long term brain injuries in your quest for the almighty NCAA FB $.

Concussion awareness training in the 2010's & 20"s will be akin to corporate diversity training in the late 1990's. Everyone needs to do it and everyone's eyes will be on it, in order to mitigate risk and stay away from the lawsuits. But what happens when the insurance coverage for these kids soar, and/or the post-playing career healthcare costs that the schools will eventually be burdened with for these kids, sky-rocket?

Now compound that with what is happening with state budgets these days. PA subsidizes Temple U. Temple U loses tens of millions of dollars each year to put a terrible product on the field. UCONN is worse than Temple right now. When do state legislators who aren't fans of college football (more likely in the NEast than South or Midwest IMO) step in and put pressure on their peers to end this madness? Answer: every year they are not invited to the big boy table, they are that much closer. If two things happen with both programs--both the AAC continues to be a poor FB conf & if they are raided for a program or two (eg - Cincy or Memphis) that is not them, then this folly of holding out for that brass ring draws greater scrutiny. I think their biggest problem is that they simply are not a very good FB school. I also think college FB is going to evolve into (4) 16 team super conferences. It just seems that the magic # is 16 and when Texas finally gets pried from the Big12, that conference falls apart and it's the end of major Div 1 FB dreams for anyone outside of those conferences. You might as well drop down to the FCS at that point.

This is the reason I am hoping that the BE just stands pat until the domoinos fall.

Gumby, thanks for your thoughts on the subject. Great points. I read with interest. Here are some of my thoughts.

Colleges and universities are in a particularly ticklish situation with regard to football. Much different than the NFL. It's one thing for grown men to make an adult choice to voluntarily engage in a high risk activity for monetary compensation as away to earn a living. Workers do that in a variety of ways all the time.

Anyone who watched the Public TV special on brain injury in football - at the amateur as well as at the pro level - knows that there's overwhelming evidence that plyers are being routinely subjected to an activity that will cause damage. And it's not just concussions. In fact, it's likely that he cumulative effect of numerous sub-concussive episodes is far worse than a few concussions all by themselves.

The problem for colleges and universities is that it is their mission to develop the brains of the people who contract for their service. I would submit that it is a breach of contract for a school at any level to sponsor an activity which is known to do just the opposite of what the institution has been contracted to do for it's consumers. The two activities - education and brain damaging football - are simply incompatible. I think that's where the real problems for the colleges and universities will eventually occur

[robinreed]

UConn may well be approaching a fork in the road however they must first decide what to do with football. For a few years Temple and then UMass used the MAC to dump their football. Finally the MAC got wise and no longer allows either team to be football only members. No other G5 conference will allow a football only member except for the academies and perhaps BYU especially not the AAC or MWC and so their only choice is independence or FCS. This brings in almost no money and very little recognition. Despite what many on this site believe D1A football continues to drive the bus and may in fact be getting even bigger in respect to other collegiate sports. Will UConn grow up and recognize they do not have what it takes to compete with the big boys (or even the mid sized boys) in the sport? I hope they can swallow their pride and admit it as a failed experiment. A noble effort perhaps but a failure none the less.

The Big East actually NEEDS UConn. Our performance in the NCAA whilst not a complete disaster was much less than expected and the talking heads made damn sure that everyone in TV land knew it. X did well and I am proud of the muskies and their coach. However our conference tourney drew fewer viewers than any of the "name" conferences and we require the help of a school like UConn to get us over the hump. While we are at it add Wichita State as well and the picture will become much better.

I am convinced many on this site oppose expansion because they believe, perhaps correctly, that it would mean fewer dollars per school. In my view being greedy is less than a satisfactory way to build a strong foundation. However I know it is a method of preference in pro sports.

[gtmoBlue]

Robin, others:

Appreciate your insight, passion, but UConn ain't coming to the BE. This notion of re-adding UConn is a pipe-dream. Waiting for Godot, er, UConn is a devisive idea, an idea with deminishing returns for the BE as a conference. It is a waste of time, thought, ink, and digits to continue to hope the Huskies drop the long held dream of Top level football. Waiting on UConn is a no-win for the Big East. By the end of this 1st five year wait their university will need a govt. bailout pkg to reach zero.

We need to move on. The BE should investigate other candidates, do back room politicking with "good fit" schools including ND, BC, Zags, other private schools, and the oft mentioned schools on this board, as a precursor to any possible future expansion. All Div1 private schools should be in the opening discussions, the top30 should be on our list of candidates. Candidates get evaluated across the board, then ranked - in order of desirability, in order of feasibility, and in order of value to the conference.

UConn may well be approaching a fork in the road however they must first decide what to do with football. For a few years Temple and then UMass used the MAC to dump their football. Finally the MAC got wise and no longer allows either team to be football only members. No other G5 conference will allow a football only member except for the academies and perhaps BYU especially not the AAC or MWC and so their only choice is independence or FCS. This brings in almost no money and very little recognition. Despite what many on this site believe D1A football continues to drive the bus and may in fact be getting even bigger in respect to other collegiate sports. Will UConn grow up and recognize they do not have what it takes to compete with the big boys (or even the mid sized boys) in the sport? I hope they can swallow their pride and admit it as a failed experiment. A noble effort perhaps but a failure none the less.

The Big East actually NEEDS UConn. Our performance in the NCAA whilst not a complete disaster was much less than expected and the talking heads made damn sure that everyone in TV land knew it. X did well and I am proud of the muskies and their coach. However our conference tourney drew fewer viewers than any of the "name" conferences and we require the help of a school like UConn to get us over the hump. While we are at it add Wichita State as well and the picture will become much better.

I am convinced many on this site oppose expansion because they believe, perhaps correctly, that it would mean fewer dollars per school. In my view being greedy is less than a satisfactory way to build a strong foundation. However I know it is a method of preference in pro sports.

One person earlier pointed out that the conference's "privacy" is important to he university presidents. This issue should not be under-estimated. Privacy is yet another "benefit" of universities joining the BE. What happens in the BE - stays in the BE. Far less govt mandated reporting and disclosures, far more financial security. Future expansion will probably continue with the private school trend. The BE should take the position of acting in our own best interest regardless to whether the football 5 stand pat or expand.

We should use leverage on target schools when F5 schools and conferences face sanctions from their scandals. We should use influence on F5 outlier schools in the expansion landscape. And we should have a quick-strike contingency plan - to be able to rapidly intercede and acquire a new school(s) when they come available OR we want/need one.

[stever20]

not a snowballs chance in heck that Notre Dame or BC would be in the Big East. NONE. For Notre Dame a big reason why they are in the ACC is the bowls.

[XUFan09]

The idea that the Big East needs to "move on" from UConn implies that the conference is actively looking to expand and needs to figure out a list of candidates in the near future. That's not true, though. The conference can bide its time and see how the landscape develops, concerning both UConn and any other plausible candidates.

[gtmoBlue]

not a snowballs chance in heck that Notre Dame or BC would be in the Big East. NONE. For Notre Dame a big reason why they are in the ACC is the bowls.

No doubt. Agree wholeheartedly. Highly unlikely, but not impossible. Who would have thought that ND would join the BE the other time? Or that BC would run to Tobacco Road? (Gonzaga was the third team mentioned.)

However, since those 3 are perfect fits - catholic, private, shared values & mission base. Since the BE is now a "Leader" amongst private and Catholic universities we should still offer the olive branch and engage them, as well as the other top 20 or so catholic schools, and the top tier of non-catholic private schools, in discussions of mutual interest. Be that academics, research, administrative issues, student-base issues, athletics, fundraising issues, cooperative ventures, youth outreach programs, and other pertinent topics.

Be maintaining dialogue, cooperating in areas of common interest, building additional goodwill, the BE positions itself as one good available option, should the collegiate sports division 1 landscape continue shifting over the next several years. Should the realignment quakes cease, we still have developed good partners in the other aspects of university business.

It has been a tumultuous last 12 or so years of changes in the div 1 segment of collegiate sports. Perhaps the current temblors have subsided and things will stay as they are? Perhaps Delany or one of the other Commishioners will choose to chase the 4/16 super conference model? The main point was for the BE to prepare, to engage, and to have a plan when changes do occur.

[NovaBall]

The idea that the Big East needs to "move on" from UConn implies that the conference is actively looking to expand and needs to figure out a list of candidates in the near future. That's not true, though. The conference can bide its time and see how the landscape develops, concerning both UConn and any other plausible candidates.

^^^^^ exactly

No rush to expand, if we ever expand at all. Things are good right now.

Just need to monitor the situation. I have my eye on three things:
1. UConn
2. Gonzaga's viability
3. Dayton's ability to maintain some success and build their brand over the next few years

We don't need any of them to join, but good to keep window shopping in case we do want to expand down the road