Lavin Out

[Bill Marsh]

you say you want change because you don't want to settle for mediocrity and the names i hear are hurley's and massiello's. they may be up and coming guys but still are vastly unproven as far as being able to recruit big time players and win games in the ncaa tourney. you will still be in wait n see mode for the next 2 years.

that's why i question this move unless you get pitino or donovan to come here.

I more than agree with you and glad you brought this up. Really, hiring a coach from Buffalo or Manhattan isn't more than a "safe hire". If you are looking for a grand slam with a current non-P5 coach, you are looking at Few, Marshall, Smart, or Miller. I have nothing against Hurley or Massiello, and hope they have fine careers. But they won't turn any heads. No current recruits remember Hurley at Duke. Their parents might, but they won't. Massiello is best remember for lying on his resume. A top assistant at one of the' blue blood schools' would bring more pizzaz.

Seriously?

Few? He's not going anywhere. Everyone knows that.
Marshall? He's from South Carolina. Fit in well in conservative Kansas. As hot as he is, do you really think that he's going to a Catholic school in NYC? I remember what a bad fit Rick Barnes was in Providence.
Shaka? Not coming. Rumored to have just turned down Tennessee for $3million.
Miller? Doubtful. He's got it made in Dayton. Why take on another rebuilding project in another Catholic school? I think that his sites are set higher than that if he's anything like his brother.

[Bill Marsh]

I am thrilled with this decision. I think we got used to Lavin after 5 years and he is a genuinely nice guy. That's why so many people are upset. He's a father figure to our players and they love him. But unfortunately you can be the nicest and handsome guy ever with the hottest wife, but not be a good coach. He started off recruiting with a bang but that wore off in the last 2 years and top recruits caught on that he was not the answer if they wanted to win. Chris Carlin (a major NYC sports media head here on TV) said he was pleasantly surprised and figured we would settle for the Lavin mediocrity, but it's encouraging that we didn't. I agree. It shows we want more. We want to be legitimate. It shows we won't settle for 2 NCAA's in 5 years with top 100 kids. We won't settle for 0 postseason wins.

I'd rather bite the bullet now and sacrifice 1-2 years of rebuilding to get a real coach in here. The quicker we make the change, the quicker we will see results. We were never getting Lovett, Diallo, Pappagiannis, and Lav lost Briscoe to UK after recruiting him like the next MJ for what felt like 10 years. It was time for him to go. He recruits athletes though…I want basketball players. I want scoring big men who box out and rebound. I want PG's who can shoot but also play the role of team leader and constantly get assists. I want dead eye shooters even if they aren't all that athletic. I want consistent FT shooting. Lavin teams don't have this. There is no skill on Lavin teams. Just lots of really fast, bouncy guys who score on fast breaks and iso ball. That's not the type of team you recruit to have staying power in the top 25 or consistently make tourney runs. Lavin teams were maddeningly inconsistent. One minute ranked 15th, next minute we looked like the team that Robert Morris blew out. And though we often fought against the blue bloods valiantly, we never won against them (except that 1 miracle year in 2011).

Lavin Pros:
-Great ambassador
-Great father figure, positive influence on kids
-Kids love him
-Brings exposure and media attention
-Media savvy
-Recruited well in beginning (faded towards end)
-Hot wife
-Full head of hair in middle age

Lavin Cons:
-Cannot play team basketball
-Cannot blend players and create chemistry
-Cannot recruit skilled players
-Cannot win in postseason
-Cannot win the big game
-Very very slow starts
-Cannot maintain consistency

With that being said, my choice would be either Hurley. Can't go wrong. Would be fun to have both Hurley's in the Big East. If not, Mullin would be my 2nd choice with the caveat that he brings some very talented and experienced assistants/recruiters with him. Many experts are saying if Mullin coached, boosters would donate tons of money for upgrades. We will see, but as long as it's a Hurley or Mullin I will be very happy.

I like the Hurley idea. Good fit. Good coaches.

With all you just said, how do you come up with Mullin as your back up to the Hurleys? We don't know if he can coach a lick or if he can organize and oversee a program. He doesn't meet any of your criteria. He'd be enormously popular, no doubt. But how long will that last if he can't elevate the program? I get your caveat with him, but that seems to be saying that he should be brought in to be a figurehead. Not good.Nonetheless, it just may be him when the dust settles.

[NJRedman]

It's Danny Hurley that's the front runner along with Mullin. Look at what Danny did at Wagner & URI and the kids he has coming in to that A10 school.

Also apparently Momasche wanted to resign Lavin and the President overruled him. Personally I think Monasche has to go. He has hired the last two coaches. Might have even hired Jarvis. I'd like to fire him and make Mullin the AD. He has run an NBA team so he has management skills and experience.

Mullin & Hurley in '15!!!

[HoosierPal]

you say you want change because you don't want to settle for mediocrity and the names i hear are hurley's and massiello's. they may be up and coming guys but still are vastly unproven as far as being able to recruit big time players and win games in the ncaa tourney. you will still be in wait n see mode for the next 2 years.

that's why i question this move unless you get pitino or donovan to come here.

I more than agree with you and glad you brought this up. Really, hiring a coach from Buffalo or Manhattan isn't more than a "safe hire". If you are looking for a grand slam with a current non-P5 coach, you are looking at Few, Marshall, Smart, or Miller. I have nothing against Hurley or Massiello, and hope they have fine careers. But they won't turn any heads. No current recruits remember Hurley at Duke. Their parents might, but they won't. Massiello is best remember for lying on his resume. A top assistant at one of the' blue blood schools' would bring more pizzaz.

Seriously?

Few? He's not going anywhere. Everyone knows that.
Marshall? He's from South Carolina. Fit in well in conservative Kansas. As hot as he is, do you really think that he's going to a Catholic school in NYC? I remember what a bad fit Rick Barnes was in Providence.
Shaka? Not coming. Rumored to have just turned down Tennessee for $3million.
Miller? Doubtful. He's got it made in Dayton. Why take on another rebuilding project in another Catholic school? I think that his sites are set higher than that if he's anything like his brother.

Yes, Seriously. Did Few tell you he wasn't going anywhere? He didn't tell me. So I guess he told everyone but me.

Tennessee and Alabama (SEC) are talking to these guys, you know Texas (Big 12) will be talking, so why not the Big East? You want to run with the big dogs, you need to spend like a big dog.

Step up to the plate DePaul and St. Johns. If you want to send shock waves through the NCAA, don't go small. Go big. You want to go small time, steal a MAC coach, a MAAC coach or one from the Horizon League.

If you don't ask, they can't turn you down.

[Bill Marsh]

I more than agree with you and glad you brought this up. Really, hiring a coach from Buffalo or Manhattan isn't more than a "safe hire". If you are looking for a grand slam with a current non-P5 coach, you are looking at Few, Marshall, Smart, or Miller. I have nothing against Hurley or Massiello, and hope they have fine careers. But they won't turn any heads. No current recruits remember Hurley at Duke. Their parents might, but they won't. Massiello is best remember for lying on his resume. A top assistant at one of the' blue blood schools' would bring more pizzaz.

Seriously?

Few? He's not going anywhere. Everyone knows that.
Marshall? He's from South Carolina. Fit in well in conservative Kansas. As hot as he is, do you really think that he's going to a Catholic school in NYC? I remember what a bad fit Rick Barnes was in Providence.
Shaka? Not coming. Rumored to have just turned down Tennessee for $3million.
Miller? Doubtful. He's got it made in Dayton. Why take on another rebuilding project in another Catholic school? I think that his sites are set higher than that if he's anything like his brother.

Yes, Seriously. Did Few tell you he wasn't going anywhere? He didn't tell me. So I guess he told everyone but me.

Tennessee and Alabama (SEC) are talking to these guys, you know Texas (Big 12) will be talking, so why not the Big East? You want to run with the big dogs, you need to spend like a big dog.

Step up to the plate DePaul and St. Johns. If you want to send shock waves through the NCAA, don't go small. Go big. You want to go small time, steal a MAC coach, a MAAC coach or one from the Horizon League.

If you don't ask, they can't turn you down.

I like the fact that you have high standards and aspirations. You may be right about these guys, and I may be wrong, but I do see it differently than you do.

So, FWIW . . .

Few has told everyone in the world he's not going anywhere, which is why schools don't even bother approaching him any more.

Shaka just turned down Tennessee and their $3 million offer. Did he do that so he could come to St. John's?

Maybe Marshall would come, but he just doesn't seem like a cultural fit to me. I remember when Rick Barnes went to Providence so he could use it as a career stepping stone. He couldn't wait to get out of town fast enough. Dave Gavitt basically threatened to have him black balled within the coaching profession to pressure him into staying longer than 5 minutes. Marshall seems like the same kind of situation to me. For all I've read, he likes it at Wichita, but he probably realizes he's accomplished all he can there. he's 53. Not a kid. If he makes a move, it will be to hit a home run the way that John Beilein did when he moved from West Virginia to Michigan. St. John's is just not that kind of job.

St. John's might have a shot at Miller, so it would be worth talking to him. I wouldn't get my hopes up with him because his profile is already high enough that it won't be improved much by winning at St. John's, which will be a long term project anyway. I don't see that as his career goal, which he can probably achieve faster where he is just as his brother did. But, yes, hive him a call.

Either of the Hurleys seem to me to be perfect at St. John's. Grew up as Catholic school kids in the NY area. They would likely value the St. John's job. Their father is right here to mentor them further. They have recruited NY. Bobby is a big name. Danny has more coaching experience. Take your pick.

[billyjack]

Writers in NY recommending Dan Hurley over Mullin.
St John's alum-donors are said to be favoring Mullin.

I agree that Dan Hurley would be great, though it would really hurt URI. DH has been fantastic in 3 years at Rhody. He's entertaining on the sideline too. He's pulled in some great recruits, like EC Matthews and Jared Terrell. URI is young and is going to make a huge leap next year if DH stays.

Couple of links from the Friar board:

Ny Post:

http://nypost.com/2015/03/27/st-johns-s ... e-program/

Daily News:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/colle ... 830_668854

[Bill Marsh]

Writers in NY recommending Dan Hurley over Mullin.
St John's alum-donors are said to be favoring Mullin.
I agree that Dan Hurley would be great, though it would really hurt URI.

Couple of links from the Friar board:

Ny Post:

http://nypost.com/2015/03/27/st-johns-s ... e-program/

Daily News:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/colle ... 830_668854

The alum-donors almost always get their way. I remember that a big donor who wanted Dougherty at St. John's was dissed when they hired Norm instead. But this is Mullin who is revered in NYC. If the alum-donors want him and he wants the job, it is his.he certainly should be able to boost recruiting.

[billyjack]

Writers in NY recommending Dan Hurley over Mullin.
St John's alum-donors are said to be favoring Mullin.
I agree that Dan Hurley would be great, though it would really hurt URI.

Couple of links from the Friar board:

Ny Post:

http://nypost.com/2015/03/27/st-johns-s ... e-program/

Daily News:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/colle ... 830_668854

The alum-donors almost always get their way. I remember that a big donor who wanted Dougherty at St. John's was dissed when they hired Norm instead. But this is Mullin who is revered in NYC. If the alum-donors want him and he wants the job, it is his.he certainly should be able to boost recruiting.

Hey Bill...!
Yeah, cultural fit is key.
Like you said, Barnes wanted to leave PC after 1 year...!

Marshall i see at Texas.
Few i see staying at Gonzaga.

Dan Hurley or Masiello would be perfect for St John's, where besides their coaching ability, they have loads of confidence and swagger. Both DH and Mas seem to connect with their players and have their respect. Dan Hurley can be annoying if you're rooting against his team, constantly jawing with the refs. 2 years ago in Kingston, you probably remember when DH and Cooley almost had a fistfight.

Bobby Hurley seems more laid back and restrained, while still confident. Even in his playing days he wasn't a loudmouth. I'm hoping DePaul can get him this weekend.

Masiello is great too, hilarious the way he paces the sideline. Quotes are great. Would be perfect too for the BE and SJU. I see Masiello if successful at SJU as wanting to move on, whereas Dan Hurley i can see staying longterm, like Ed Cooley. Masiello needs to be in the Big East though. Masiello seems to have a good honest feel for his teams. Pre-season on Daly Dose of Hoops, he laid out how he thought Manhattan's year would play out, and he was pretty much on the money.

I can't get a read on Mullin as a college coach. Not a real animated guy, kind of soft spoken. Would be great to see him fill up the Garden though.

In summary, for the good of the Big East, I'd say Bobby Hurley to DePaul, Dan Hurley to St John's, and Masiello to Seton Hall (once Willard leaves). But you could flip DH and Masiello. Not sure Seton Hall would want to dip into the MAAC for a coach for the 4th straight time.

[Hall2012]

The Seton Hall board is losing its mind at the prospect of losing Dan Hurley (who played for SHU) to St. John's because of the school's refusal to fire Kevin Willard this year (the hope seemed to be give Willard 1 more year and then grab DH from URI). And losing their plan B (Bobby Hurley) to DePaul at the same time isn't helping. If both Hurleys take jobs elsewhere (especially elsewhere in the Big East) this offseason and SHU is average or worse next year, it's gonna be a long year for Pirates fans.

[GoldenWarrior11]

I think it's very encouraging that Big East schools (a majority of them at least) won't settle for mediocrity or failure to meet expectations. In the past two years, Buzz Williams, Branden Miller, Steve Lavin and Oliver Purnell have all been replaced. Buzz and Miller weren't fired, per se, but it was evident that the respective schools were ready to move in a different direction. Lavin and Purnell were both fired.

Kevin Willard will be on an extremely hot seat next season. If they fail to make a substantial jump, and both Hurleys are snatched up by other programs, then Seton Hall will have missed an incredible opportunity to take that leap.

These schools want to be top basketball programs, period. It was a message given from day one of the reconfigured Big East - and it is an ideal that is being pursued by all the schools.

Speaking of Branden Miller, was it ever released what happened?