Providence does not dance unless they beat Creighton

[stever20]

@Seton Hall was one of three bad losses on the year. They very well could have gone up three spots, as bad losses can be debilitating.

maybe. I think 1 other problem they had was Tennessee and Iowa. Lost to both of them neutral site(yes, that means more for the committee than the home win vs Tennessee)..

[XUFan09]

@Seton Hall was one of three bad losses on the year. They very well could have gone up three spots, as bad losses can be debilitating.

maybe. I think 1 other problem they had was Tennessee and Iowa. Lost to both of them neutral site(yes, that means more for the committee than the home win vs Tennessee)..

I don't argue with the fact that the Bahamas was a bigger factor. Heck, Xavier could have beat Iowa and lost to UTEP and Kansas and still been well away from the PIG. But when we're talking only three spots on the S-curve, the elimination of a bad loss could be all that is needed.

Also, recent results would have looked better, and apparently the Committee was making judgments partly off of that, based of Wellman's explicit comments. That's crap, because that has not been a criterion for a few years (though you can't remove the unconscious bias), but it is what it is.

[Bill Marsh]

and my point to your rant is this- isn't that exactly what are you saying? If the injury doesn't happen Xavier would have been a slam dunk and not in the PIG. You are using the word if just as much as me. You have no way of knowing how the game with Nova would have gone. Maybe if he plays, the game is worse than a 7 point loss for Xavier. You just don't know. To act like it automatically would go better for Xavier is not right.

Also, if Xavier beats Seton Hall, do you really think they would have gone in the seed list up 3 slots to avoid the PIG? I don't.

My IF was only to counter your IF. Maybe it's better if we stay away from IF's altogether.

As I said in my rant, there is a reality here. And that reality is that the Big East got 4 bids. Period.

[Bill Marsh]

@Seton Hall was one of three bad losses on the year. They very well could have gone up three spots, as bad losses can be debilitating.

maybe. I think 1 other problem they had was Tennessee and Iowa. Lost to both of them neutral site(yes, that means more for the committee than the home win vs Tennessee)..

I don't argue with the fact that the Bahamas was a bigger factor. Heck, Xavier could have beat Iowa and lost to UTEP and Kansas and still been well away from the PIG. But when we're talking only three spots on the S-curve, the elimination of a bad loss could be all that is needed.

Also, recent results would have looked better, and apparently the Committee was making judgments partly off of that, based of Wellman's explicit comments. That's crap, because that has not been a criterion for a few years (though you can't remove the unconscious bias), but it is what it is.

I have no doubt that Stainbrook's injury affected their seeding adversely. all we have to do is look at the competition;

Team Live-RPI W vs Top 50 L vs 100+

Tenn (12) -- 42 - 3 - 4
Daytn (11) - 43 - 4 - 3
Xavier (12) - 47 - 4 - 3
Nebr (11) -- 48 - 4 - 2
NC St (12) - 55 - 3 - 2
Iowa (12) -- 56 - 5 - 1

Clearly Tennessee's 4 bad losses is what put them in the PIG along with NC State and Iowa who were both there by virtue of their RPI. On paper, Xavier was ahead of Nebraska but the extra bad loss, which was to Seton Hall, would seem to have counted for more than the 1 RPI spot. Take away the loss to SHU, pretty directly resulting from the Stainbrook injury, and Nebraska is in the PIG instead of Xavier. But why was Xavier dropped below Iowa onto the 12 line? Again, we have that 3rd bad loss. Combine that with likely doubts about whether Stainbrook was fully recovered and I think the PIG on the 12 line is the result. With a healthy Stainbrook and a win over Seton Hall, I don't see Xavier in the PIG.

[stever20]

head to head losses to Iowa and Tennessee I think was just as big. I have no doubt that's why they were the 3rd of the 4 PIG teams.

We can't just assume they would have beaten Seton Hall. They were losing early to them when he got hurt. Not by much but they were losing. As we saw, Seton Hall was no slouch end of season. I think if Stainbook was healthy, but they lost to Seton Hall, Nova, beat Marquette, and then lost to Creighton- they would be exactly where they are right now.

[cu blujs]

Keep in mind that sometimes seeding also gets modified because of who the other teams in the bracket are. In this case, switching Nebraska and Xavier puts Xavier as the 11th in San Antonio with a possible 2nd game matchup with Creighton. I have no way of knowing, but it is possible that to avoid such a result, they had to switch X and Nebraska.

[XUFan09]

Keep in mind that sometimes seeding also gets modified because of who the other teams in the bracket are. In this case, switching Nebraska and Xavier puts Xavier as the 11th in San Antonio with a possible 2nd game matchup with Creighton. I have no way of knowing, but it is possible that to avoid such a result, they had to switch X and Nebraska.

The rules change just this past summer to allow for more flexibility on that account, though there was a condition if two teams played each other more than twice, which Xavier and Creighton did, but I can't remember what it was. Xavier also faced the two teams playing each other in the higher-seeded PIG, and the Committee simply cannot have rematches in the First Round. So, both would have to move down, and Xavier would have to move up with NC State, who was decidedly the last team in the tournament.

[shupirate98]

Keep in mind that sometimes seeding also gets modified because of who the other teams in the bracket are. In this case, switching Nebraska and Xavier puts Xavier as the 11th in San Antonio with a possible 2nd game matchup with Creighton. I have no way of knowing, but it is possible that to avoid such a result, they had to switch X and Nebraska.

The rules change just this past summer to allow for more flexibility on that account, though there was a condition if two teams played each other more than twice, which Xavier and Creighton did, but I can't remember what it was. Xavier also faced the two teams playing each other in the higher-seeded PIG, and the Committee simply cannot have rematches in the First Round. So, both would have to move down, and Xavier would have to move up with NC State, who was decidedly the last team in the tournament.

No team can be switched into or out of a First Four game, the last four at-large teams selected go to Dayton, period.

Xavier could not have played Creighton until a regional final. New rules are league teams who played once can meet as early as round of 32, teams who played twice can meet in the Sweet 16, teams who played 3 times can't meet until Elite 8. The rules changes this year made any switching of seeds completely unnecessary. Every team in the bracket is on its true seed line, no switches. You can see the full, official seed list right here...

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/16/2014-ncaa-tournament-official-seed-list/

[gosports1]

i may be a little bias but the team that tied for 3rd in the conference that statistically ranked around 4th (according to most) in the nation, and also made it to the championship game was considered out, yet teams such as nebraska, stanford, smu and st joes were in?