4th Team

[shupirate98]

Yesterday Fairleigh Dickinson lost at home to Bryant by 27 points.

In related news Seton Hall is not making the NCAA Tournament.

[TheHall]

You think everyone is anti-Seton Hall.

I'm more curious who the fourth-best team is in the Big East in terms of chances to make the NCAA Tournament. What odds do you give Seton Hall of making the tournament? I give them about a 2% chance.

Me too but playing the games is how we will actually finding out. Not by assuming its who you thought it would be in the preseason. With all that's went wrong with injuries and bad play right now Seton Hall is tied for 6th and we're just getting our full roster back lol. This board overwhelmingly picked SHU to place a distant 9th. I'm simply pointing out that this majority position became irrelevant once the conference play began and there are plenty here who don't care to acknowledge that. For example, one point about the narrative that I keep finding unfair is to lump the Mercer loss with FDU & St. Pete's. Mercer right now is 15-5 and in a 1st place tie with Florida Gulf Coast. They just won at Ole Miss. yet you and others just keep the same tired lines coming.

I like how you completely ignored my post, bolding part of a sentence so you could answer that part rather than the whole sentence in context, creating a straw man you could argue against.

That's the first time I've ever brought up Mercer because you're right, it's not nearly as bad a loss as FDU and Saint Peter's.

How is it a narrative that the conference has 2 losses outside the RPI top 200, and both are by Seton Hall?

It seems you've improved since the non-conference. And right now, there's an argument to be made about Seton Hall playing like the 4th-best team in the conference right now.

But even if you finish 4th in the Big East, you're still not making the NCAA Tournament unless you win the BET, or at earn 3-4 wins against Creighton/Xavier/Villanova.

Look I don't need you to waste your first umpteen post arguing with me about how unlikely you think it is for my team to make something out of this season. No need to debate whether I should concede this season on January 19th, simply because you think enough is enough or that teams that make the NCAAT won't have 2 bad losses on their resumes also. But again that's why they play the games.

[TheHall]

Yesterday Fairleigh Dickinson lost at home to Bryant by 27 points.

In related news Seton Hall is not making the NCAA Tournament.

See you next year then...

[Hall2012]

You think everyone is anti-Seton Hall.

I'm more curious who the fourth-best team is in the Big East in terms of chances to make the NCAA Tournament. What odds do you give Seton Hall of making the tournament? I give them about a 2% chance.

I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I'd like to give my opinion.

The discussion seems to be the race for 4th place. I personally believe that the 4th place team will get an at large bid.. Assuming that the top 3 are Nova, Creighton and Xavier (which I maintain that it's too early even to say that, but I will for arguments sake), the contenders for 4th (judging by most opinions on here) are Georgetown, Marquette, and Providence. Now let's take a look at Seton Hall. The Pirates have already played all 3 of those teams on the road ( 2 of which while shorthanded) and have 2 wins and a 1pt loss to show for it. That leaves plenty of reason to believe the Hall can win the home leg (supposedly the easier leg) against all 3. Again, for argument's sake, let's assume they don't sweep the home legs but pull another 2-1 instead (I think that's fair). That leaves them at 4-2 against the top 4th place candidates which most likely puts them into contention for the spot.

Now, will 4th place for Seton Hall not be enough to get an NCAA bid? It's very possible, they have 2 very bad losses, but those are in the past and there's nothing they can do about them now. That'll be up to the committee. What they need to focus on now is what they can control, which is winning games and climbing as high in the Big East standings as possible. And right now, there's no reason to rule them out of contention for 4th.

[TheHall]

You think everyone is anti-Seton Hall.

I'm more curious who the fourth-best team is in the Big East in terms of chances to make the NCAA Tournament. What odds do you give Seton Hall of making the tournament? I give them about a 2% chance.

I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I'd like to give my opinion.

The discussion seems to be the race for 4th place. I personally believe that the 4th place team will get an at large bid.. Assuming that the top 3 are Nova, Creighton and Xavier (which I maintain that it's too early even to say that, but I will for arguments sake), the contenders for 4th (judging by most opinions on here) are Georgetown, Marquette, and Providence. Now let's take a look at Seton Hall. The Pirates have already played all 3 of those teams on the road ( 2 of which while shorthanded) and have 2 wins and a 1pt loss to show for it. That leaves plenty of reason to believe the Hall can win the home leg (supposedly the easier leg) against all 3. Again, for argument's sake, let's assume they don't sweep the home legs but pull another 2-1 instead (I think that's fair). That leaves them at 4-2 against the top 4th place candidates which most likely puts them into contention for the spot.

Now, will 4th place for Seton Hall not be enough to get an NCAA bid? It's very possible, they have 2 very bad losses, but those are in the past and there's nothing they can do about them now. That'll be up to the committee. What they need to focus on now is what they can control, which is winning games and climbing as high in the Big East standings as possible. And right now, there's no reason to rule them out of contention for 4th.

Hall I couldn't even bother to put a rational argument out b/c most have already stated that losing to St. Pete's, FDU and even Mercer was a deal closer weeks ago, while now claiming to be making non-bias assessments. Notice this isn't a debate with me saying SHU will & other saying SHU won't. It's just a SHU won't bias regardless of game play.

[Hall2012]

You think everyone is anti-Seton Hall.

I'm more curious who the fourth-best team is in the Big East in terms of chances to make the NCAA Tournament. What odds do you give Seton Hall of making the tournament? I give them about a 2% chance.

I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I'd like to give my opinion.

The discussion seems to be the race for 4th place. I personally believe that the 4th place team will get an at large bid.. Assuming that the top 3 are Nova, Creighton and Xavier (which I maintain that it's too early even to say that, but I will for arguments sake), the contenders for 4th (judging by most opinions on here) are Georgetown, Marquette, and Providence. Now let's take a look at Seton Hall. The Pirates have already played all 3 of those teams on the road ( 2 of which while shorthanded) and have 2 wins and a 1pt loss to show for it. That leaves plenty of reason to believe the Hall can win the home leg (supposedly the easier leg) against all 3. Again, for argument's sake, let's assume they don't sweep the home legs but pull another 2-1 instead (I think that's fair). That leaves them at 4-2 against the top 4th place candidates which most likely puts them into contention for the spot.

Now, will 4th place for Seton Hall not be enough to get an NCAA bid? It's very possible, they have 2 very bad losses, but those are in the past and there's nothing they can do about them now. That'll be up to the committee. What they need to focus on now is what they can control, which is winning games and climbing as high in the Big East standings as possible. And right now, there's no reason to rule them out of contention for 4th.

Hall I couldn't even bother to put a rational argument out b/c most have already stated that losing to St. Pete's, FDU and even Mercer was a deal closer weeks ago, while now claiming to be making non-bias assessments. Notice this isn't a debate with me saying SHU will & other saying SHU won't. It's just a SHU won't bias regardless of game play.

The SPC and FDU losses absolutely hurt. Nobody can argue otherwise. But at the same time, they're certainly not a reason to quit, there's way too much basketball left to play. A 4th place finish in the Big East will undoubtedly bring Seton Hall's name up in the tournament selection discussion. Those 2 losses will undoubtedly be a talking point we'll see if they determine that they're a reason to keep the Hall out or give them an injury pass and decide that those games weren't played by the same Seton Hall team we see now. Numbers wise-they're crushing, almost eliminating losses. Fortunately, it's not the BCS. There's an eye-test human element used by the selection committee and that's what can give the Hall some hope if they finish strong.

That being said, they still need to finish strong. If the Pirates pretty much need to finish in 4th place for any of that to matter.

[MackNova]

You think everyone is anti-Seton Hall.

I'm more curious who the fourth-best team is in the Big East in terms of chances to make the NCAA Tournament. What odds do you give Seton Hall of making the tournament? I give them about a 2% chance.

I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I'd like to give my opinion.

The discussion seems to be the race for 4th place. I personally believe that the 4th place team will get an at large bid.. Assuming that the top 3 are Nova, Creighton and Xavier (which I maintain that it's too early even to say that, but I will for arguments sake), the contenders for 4th (judging by most opinions on here) are Georgetown, Marquette, and Providence. Now let's take a look at Seton Hall. The Pirates have already played all 3 of those teams on the road ( 2 of which while shorthanded) and have 2 wins and a 1pt loss to show for it. That leaves plenty of reason to believe the Hall can win the home leg (supposedly the easier leg) against all 3. Again, for argument's sake, let's assume they don't sweep the home legs but pull another 2-1 instead (I think that's fair). That leaves them at 4-2 against the top 4th place candidates which most likely puts them into contention for the spot.

Now, will 4th place for Seton Hall not be enough to get an NCAA bid? It's very possible, they have 2 very bad losses, but those are in the past and there's nothing they can do about them now. That'll be up to the committee. What they need to focus on now is what they can control, which is winning games and climbing as high in the Big East standings as possible. And right now, there's no reason to rule them out of contention for 4th.

4th in the Big East might be enough to get in for teams that didn't kill themselves in non-conference to make it. However, Hall has to make up for those 2 awful losses, and they haven't really done that yet. Winning at Georgetown and Providence are good wins, but that's all you have on your resume right now.

I think Hall will ne-ed to beat Villanova on the road AND win 2 other big games against Creighton and Xavier to make up for some of those bad losses and give your resume some meat. Otherwise, it won't have a win over a tournament team on its resume (hard to see the Big East getting 5 in without an underdog winning in the BET).

The 4th-place team will get in if it didn't kill itself in the non-conference. That's why Providence and Georgetown have better chances. They don't have great non-conference resumes by any stretch, but they avoided bad losses. Look at Virginia last year. 11-7 in the ACC with a win at home against Duke and a road win at Wisconsin. However, it lost to George Mason, Old Dominion and Delaware to cost itself a chance to get in and didn't do quite enough to make up for it, missing the tournament at 21-11.


To me, no fourth team in the Big East has asserted itself as the clear best option to make the Tournament.
If I had to rank the teams in odds of making the tournament as an at-large, I would go...
1. Providence (40%)
1. Georgetown (40%)
3. Marquette (20%)
4. Butler (20%)
5. Seton Hall (3%)
5. St. John's (3%)
7. DePaul (0.001%)

Remember, this is my assessment in terms of making the Tournament. I personally don't think Seton Hall will come in 4th in the league, but I think there's a chance. The other teams aren't that great, so it's certainly doable. But making the tournament is more than that, and it's certainly not because I'm biased against Seton Hall.

[TheHall]

4th in the Big East might be enough to get in for teams that didn't kill themselves in non-conference to make it. However, Hall has to make up for those 2 awful losses, and they haven't really done that yet. Winning at Georgetown and Providence are good wins, but that's all you have on your resume right now.

I think Hall will ne-ed to beat Villanova on the road AND win 2 other big games against Creighton and Xavier to make up for some of those bad losses and give your resume some meat. Otherwise, it won't have a win over a tournament team on its resume (hard to see the Big East getting 5 in without an underdog winning in the BET).

The 4th-place team will get in if it didn't kill itself in the non-conference. That's why Providence and Georgetown have better chances. They don't have great non-conference resumes by any stretch, but they avoided bad losses. Look at Virginia last year. 11-7 in the ACC with a win at home against Duke and a road win at Wisconsin. However, it lost to George Mason, Old Dominion and Delaware to cost itself a chance to get in and didn't do quite enough to make up for it, missing the tournament at 21-11.


To me, no fourth team in the Big East has asserted itself as the clear best option to make the Tournament.
If I had to rank the teams in odds of making the tournament as an at-large, I would go...
1. Providence (40%)
1. Georgetown (40%)
3. Marquette (20%)
4. Butler (20%)
5. Seton Hall (3%)
5. St. John's (3%)
7. DePaul (0.001%)

Remember, this is my assessment in terms of making the Tournament. I personally don't think Seton Hall will come in 4th in the league, but I think there's a chance. The other teams aren't that great, so it's certainly doable. But making the tournament is more than that, and it's certainly not because I'm biased against Seton Hall.

If you check my posts on this subject I would hope you see that this is the only I've been making & defending. Yet you called that an inferiority complex.

[HoosierPal]

4th in the Big East might be enough to get in for teams that didn't kill themselves in non-conference to make it. However, Hall has to make up for those 2 awful losses, and they haven't really done that yet. Winning at Georgetown and Providence are good wins, but that's all you have on your resume right now.

I think Hall will ne-ed to beat Villanova on the road AND win 2 other big games against Creighton and Xavier to make up for some of those bad losses and give your resume some meat. Otherwise, it won't have a win over a tournament team on its resume (hard to see the Big East getting 5 in without an underdog winning in the BET).

The 4th-place team will get in if it didn't kill itself in the non-conference. That's why Providence and Georgetown have better chances. They don't have great non-conference resumes by any stretch, but they avoided bad losses. Look at Virginia last year. 11-7 in the ACC with a win at home against Duke and a road win at Wisconsin. However, it lost to George Mason, Old Dominion and Delaware to cost itself a chance to get in and didn't do quite enough to make up for it, missing the tournament at 21-11.


To me, no fourth team in the Big East has asserted itself as the clear best option to make the Tournament.
If I had to rank the teams in odds of making the tournament as an at-large, I would go...
1. Providence (40%)
1. Georgetown (40%)
3. Marquette (20%)
4. Butler (20%)
5. Seton Hall (3%)
5. St. John's (3%)
7. DePaul (0.001%)

Remember, this is my assessment in terms of making the Tournament. I personally don't think Seton Hall will come in 4th in the league, but I think there's a chance. The other teams aren't that great, so it's certainly doable. But making the tournament is more than that, and it's certainly not because I'm biased against Seton Hall.

If you check my posts on this subject I would hope you see that this is the only I've been making & defending. Yet you called that an inferiority complex.

You are being too kind. Butler has no shot at the NCAA, except to win the Big East tourney. Lost to DePaul at home, one loss to Villanova and Creighton already.

[Hall2012]

You think everyone is anti-Seton Hall.

I'm more curious who the fourth-best team is in the Big East in terms of chances to make the NCAA Tournament. What odds do you give Seton Hall of making the tournament? I give them about a 2% chance.

I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I'd like to give my opinion.

The discussion seems to be the race for 4th place. I personally believe that the 4th place team will get an at large bid.. Assuming that the top 3 are Nova, Creighton and Xavier (which I maintain that it's too early even to say that, but I will for arguments sake), the contenders for 4th (judging by most opinions on here) are Georgetown, Marquette, and Providence. Now let's take a look at Seton Hall. The Pirates have already played all 3 of those teams on the road ( 2 of which while shorthanded) and have 2 wins and a 1pt loss to show for it. That leaves plenty of reason to believe the Hall can win the home leg (supposedly the easier leg) against all 3. Again, for argument's sake, let's assume they don't sweep the home legs but pull another 2-1 instead (I think that's fair). That leaves them at 4-2 against the top 4th place candidates which most likely puts them into contention for the spot.

Now, will 4th place for Seton Hall not be enough to get an NCAA bid? It's very possible, they have 2 very bad losses, but those are in the past and there's nothing they can do about them now. That'll be up to the committee. What they need to focus on now is what they can control, which is winning games and climbing as high in the Big East standings as possible. And right now, there's no reason to rule them out of contention for 4th.

4th in the Big East might be enough to get in for teams that didn't kill themselves in non-conference to make it. However, Hall has to make up for those 2 awful losses, and they haven't really done that yet. Winning at Georgetown and Providence are good wins, but that's all you have on your resume right now.

I think Hall will ne-ed to beat Villanova on the road AND win 2 other big games against Creighton and Xavier to make up for some of those bad losses and give your resume some meat. Otherwise, it won't have a win over a tournament team on its resume (hard to see the Big East getting 5 in without an underdog winning in the BET).

The 4th-place team will get in if it didn't kill itself in the non-conference. That's why Providence and Georgetown have better chances. They don't have great non-conference resumes by any stretch, but they avoided bad losses. Look at Virginia last year. 11-7 in the ACC with a win at home against Duke and a road win at Wisconsin. However, it lost to George Mason, Old Dominion and Delaware to cost itself a chance to get in and didn't do quite enough to make up for it, missing the tournament at 21-11.


To me, no fourth team in the Big East has asserted itself as the clear best option to make the Tournament.
If I had to rank the teams in odds of making the tournament as an at-large, I would go...
1. Providence (40%)
1. Georgetown (40%)
3. Marquette (20%)
4. Butler (20%)
5. Seton Hall (3%)
5. St. John's (3%)
7. DePaul (0.001%)

Remember, this is my assessment in terms of making the Tournament. I personally don't think Seton Hall will come in 4th in the league, but I think there's a chance. The other teams aren't that great, so it's certainly doable. But making the tournament is more than that, and it's certainly not because I'm biased against Seton Hall.

I'm not saying I think Seton Hall is going to get an at-large bid (nor do I think you're biased against them). My point is that with the strong showing at Marquette, as well as the wins at Georgetown and at Providence puts them solidly into contention for 4th place, and that's gotta get them into the discussion. Now, we all know how this league is- they could lose their next 3 to St. John's, DePaul, and Butler and blow it all to hell. They could also win those 3 and suddenly be 2 games over .500 in BE play.