If McDermott wins NPOY where will he rank in Big East lore?

[redmen9194]

Big East Lore so to speak is based upon much more than individual accomplishments. Mullin and Ewing were not only dominating great players, they were must see TV which was the catalyst for the league moving the tourney to Madison Square Garden. Coaches like Carnesecca, Thompson and Massamino were not just great coaches, they were characters that defined the league early on. When Villanova won the NCAA championship, it was an 8 seed knocking off the most dominant team of the last several years. McDermott can't really be compared to recent guys like Kemba Walker either. Kemba Walker put UConn on his back and did something everyone said was impossible - win the Big East Tourny as a nine seed (five games in five days) and then go on to win the NCAA. Everyone said you couldn't do that because the Big East Tourny took too much out of a team. UCONN was .500 in conference play that season. Walter Berry won the Wooden Award in 1986 and many believe was better than Mullin. But he is not so much a Big East legend. It is very premature to talk about McDermott winning player of the year or even Big East Player of the year. He will have to adjust to the very physical style of play in the Big East. SO while I expect him to be a very good player, I am not ready yet to make him POY or put him in a legends category even if he wins.

[Friarfan2]

I think it is more important for creighton to make a final four than to win national player of the year.

If McDermott wins npoy, but creighton bows out in the sweet 16, then I would stil consider McDermott to be behind guys like Andrew gaze, Johnny Morton, billy Donovan, Jeff here, Roy Hubert, Scottie Reynolds, and even Dwayne wade and Gordon Hayward (even though they never played in the big east, they heed tremendously with the prestige and perception of those member schools.

Npoy and all American is nice,but that is not as memorable as important as a final four.

[TheHall]

I think it is more important for creighton to make a final four than to win national player of the year.

If McDermott wins npoy, but creighton bows out in the sweet 16, then I would stil consider McDermott to be behind guys like Andrew gaze, Johnny Morton, billy Donovan, Jeff here, Roy Hubert, Scottie Reynolds, and even Dwayne wade and Gordon Hayward (even though they never played in the big east, they heed tremendously with the prestige and perception of those member schools.

Npoy and all American is nice,but that is not as memorable as important as a final four.

1996 was a phenomenal year for the Big East:
3 First Team AA's - Iverson, Ray Allen, Kerry Kittles
1 2nd Team AA's - John Wallace

Only Wallace & Cuse made the F4 that year even though they were the lowest ranked BE team of the four...Show me someone who remembers John Wallace & I'll show you a die-hard Big East fan. My point is the individual performances that season by Iverson & Ray in the regular season & the BE tourny have stood the test of time as significant & memorable part of BEast lore. To be fair to Kittles, he was a lottery pick but neck injury ended his NBA career prematurely.

But to hell with that, your John Morton reference was supreme!! I feel compelled to add that I always thought that God Shamgod (Shammgod Wells!) had the best handle ever in Big East history...before someone says Iverson or Pearl or some other BE great, do your homework first.

[hoyahooligan]

Completely biased and admittedly ridiculous position, but I don't think there's anything McDermott could do to rank in the BE lore for me. I still haven't fully accepted the 2005 additions of the BE into the BE fold and we only have 2 of them left. USF will pretty much never have existed for me. It's going to take a while before I consider any of the new 3 actual big east schools. I'm just starting to accept marquette since they technically won a share of the regular season title last year. DePaul accounts for what 20 total BE wins since they joined? Probably will not really feel like they're in the conference until they actually beat us once. *knock on wood*. SO mcdermott spending one year in the league will probably never scratch the surface of recognition for me as having been a BE player much less an all time great of the league.

[aughnanure]

Completely biased and admittedly ridiculous position, but I don't think there's anything McDermott could do to rank in the BE lore for me. I still haven't fully accepted the 2005 additions of the BE into the BE fold and we only have 2 of them left. USF will pretty much never have existed for me. It's going to take a while before I consider any of the new 3 actual big east schools. I'm just starting to accept marquette since they technically won a share of the regular season title last year. DePaul accounts for what 20 total BE wins since they joined? Probably will not really feel like they're in the conference until they actually beat us once. *knock on wood*. SO mcdermott spending one year in the league will probably never scratch the surface of recognition for me as having been a BE player much less an all time great of the league.

Well you could've invited us back in 79 (2 years after our Ship) . That's what hurt us after McGuire in the 80s, we missed the boat to join a conference by a good decade. Didn't join any till 1989.


If McDermott & Co. goes to the National Championship game or something, then he deserves in. Other than that, agree.

[Bulldog_Muskie]

Completely biased and admittedly ridiculous position, but I don't think there's anything McDermott could do to rank in the BE lore for me. I still haven't fully accepted the 2005 additions of the BE into the BE fold and we only have 2 of them left. USF will pretty much never have existed for me. It's going to take a while before I consider any of the new 3 actual big east schools. I'm just starting to accept marquette since they technically won a share of the regular season title last year. DePaul accounts for what 20 total BE wins since they joined? Probably will not really feel like they're in the conference until they actually beat us once. *knock on wood*. SO mcdermott spending one year in the league will probably never scratch the surface of recognition for me as having been a BE player much less an all time great of the league.

Damn straight! Make us newbies earn it. I would hate for CU, BU, and XU to just stagnate and rest on their laurels now that they are in the big time.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Totally agree fundamentally, but that point reflects more about the effect the high school to NBA and the 1 & done eras have had on cbb. F4's don't mean as much as they used to if you follow that critique of Doug McD. CBB will never return to the old ways so why hold today's game & it's players to that antiquated standard. If he wins NPOY give him his due; no strings attached. That's why I stayed away from who was actually better argument...

Um... the OP specifically posed the question of where DM would rank all-time in the BE should he win NPOY and compared him to Ewing and Mullin. So whether you like it or not, the point of the post was to compare eras. Also why are FF's not as relevant any more? If anything I would think it is easier now to get to a FF (see VCU, Butler, Wich State) than it was when you had to play the UNC, Duke, Gtown, Michigan, UCLA teams of yester-year who had great, great players stick around for multiple years together and were harder to top?

[DanofXav76]

Completely biased and admittedly ridiculous position, but I don't think there's anything McDermott could do to rank in the BE lore for me. I still haven't fully accepted the 2005 additions of the BE into the BE fold and we only have 2 of them left. USF will pretty much never have existed for me. It's going to take a while before I consider any of the new 3 actual big east schools. I'm just starting to accept marquette since they technically won a share of the regular season title last year. DePaul accounts for what 20 total BE wins since they joined? Probably will not really feel like they're in the conference until they actually beat us once. *knock on wood*. SO mcdermott spending one year in the league will probably never scratch the surface of recognition for me as having been a BE player much less an all time great of the league.

I can't disagree with you hooligan. I'm sure X will do their best on the court to prove the C7 made a good choice of inviting us and earn your acceptance.

[TheHall]

Totally agree fundamentally, but that point reflects more about the effect the high school to NBA and the 1 & done eras have had on cbb. F4's don't mean as much as they used to if you follow that critique of Doug McD. CBB will never return to the old ways so why hold today's game & it's players to that antiquated standard. If he wins NPOY give him his due; no strings attached. That's why I stayed away from who was actually better argument...

Um... the OP specifically posed the question of where DM would rank all-time in the BE should he win NPOY and compared him to Ewing and Mullin. So whether you like it or not, the point of the post was to compare eras. Also why are FF's not as relevant any more? If anything I would think it is easier now to get to a FF (see VCU, Butler, Wich State) than it was when you had to play the UNC, Duke, Gtown, Michigan, UCLA teams of yester-year who had great, great players stick around for multiple years together and were harder to top?

My bad..Literally comparing college bball players from 25-30 years ago to players today, I totally missed that point in the OP. I don't know how to do that even for the NBA...Oscar Robertson or LBJ?

[handdownmandown]

Creighton fan here, and I agree that Doug can't touch the top echelon of BE greats, even with a National Championship. Why? Duration. No one year player short of a LeBron type (and maybe not even he) could make it. There have been too many unbelievable players in the conference over the years to make it. The Carmelo comparison is about the most apt.

That said, if Doug winds up as a 3x AA and wins POY nationally, finishing in the top 5 overall in career scoring, while doing something noteworthy in the Dance as a team, he could almost approach Laettner as the best pure 'college' player of the last 25 years. Not quite, unless he wins a Championship on a turnaround J at the top of the key or something equally iconic, but close.

But even all that isn't the same thing as Mullin or Ewing or whomever doing it for their entire career as a BE member. It's just not.