Conference realignment discussion - v. 2015

[Bill Marsh]

According to multiple media reports at the time that the new Big East, Fox was willing to increase the pot in the event that the league increased to 12 members so that each school's TV revenue would remain the same.

The common belief is that train left the station with the ratings or lack thereof, so expansion will come out of the pockets of the charter members. Who knows though, maybe Big East office has gone back to Fox and said, pretty please.

The common belief among whom???

I haven't seen a single report to that effect. If you have one, please post a link.

It's obvious that a network would come up with the money for the right deal. Hypothetically speaking, if UConn and Notre Dame were suddenly available, there is no doubt that Fox would come up with the money in a NY minute. The only question is whether there are 2 schools available who would constitute the right deal in Fox's mind.

[billyjack]

According to multiple media reports at the time that the new Big East, Fox was willing to increase the pot in the event that the league increased to 12 members so that each school's TV revenue would remain the same.

The common belief is that train left the station with the ratings or lack thereof, so expansion will come out of the pockets of the charter members. Who knows though, maybe Big East office has gone back to Fox and said, pretty please.

The common belief among whom???

I haven't seen a single report to that effect. If you have one, please post a link.

It's obvious that a network would come up with the money for the right deal. Hypothetically speaking, if UConn and Notre Dame were suddenly available, there is no doubt that Fox would come up with the money in a NY minute. The only question is whether there are 2 schools available who would constitute the right deal in Fox's mind.

Right, the Fox deal is still in place where we can add 2 teams at any time, and each gets another $5 million per year. There have been no reports that this has changed. The only place that this is a "common belief" is in the heads of our friends in the Holy Land Pessimist Society.

[stever20]

I don't think we're getting 5 million per year. It was 500 million for 12 years- which is about 4.17 million per team per year- which is what Fox would up the deal per year by....

[BEwannabe]

I'm hoping you're both right, no negativity here, from my perch the Big East is all blue sky.

[billyjack]

I'm hoping you're both right, no negativity here, from my perch the Big East is all blue sky.

Hey BEwannabe... it's not you... there's someone else on this board who has been relentlessly shoveling negativity, including on this expansion topic.

[UD FAN]

I don't think the conference should expand, but if it does, it should look for large, rabid fan bases.

Dayton it is then.

Thanks Bill +1

[Bill Marsh]

I don't think the conference should expand, but if it does, it should look for large, rabid fan bases.

Dayton it is then.

Thanks Bill +1

Just telling the truth. If the Big East decides to expand, they should start with Dayton. They can put the Flyers and the Musketeers in different divisions to reduce the overlap. Can't just ignore a fan base that is top 25 in attendance year after year. There is no other candidate that is anywhere close to that.

[gtmoBlue]

Creighton had won 20+ games only 14 of the 20 years before entering the Big East (that would be 1993-94 to 2012-13 seasons).

To act like Creighton would have been a lock had VCU been private is a joke. They wouldn't have been a lock at all. I think they probably wouldn't have been in. VCU's location and better postseason success would have meant everything. The fact that in the 10 prior years VCU averaged almost 2.5 more wins than Creighton, had 2 more NCAA appearances, and did more in the tourney- Creighton couldn't compete with that. And the location thing, I totally think the eastern C7 teams would have pushed hard for a private VCU in Richmond.

The question for Creighton would be would the Big East have gone with 12 instead of 10.

OK, here's the deal. You can talk about alternate universes and different scenarios like you love to do, but the reality is that Creighton is in and VCU isn't. This debate is not only a moot point, but a completely waste of time. I'm sorry that you don't believe Creighton was deserving, but the Presidents obviously thought we were deserving. And that's what really matters.

I have no problem at all with that. But the thing that needs to stop is folks saying that basketball is the reason why VCU is not in the Big East. Because it's not.

VCU won't be invited to the BE. They should apply to the ACC or AAC for membership.
They don't fit the BE profile (small, private, Catholic). When the BE eventually expands, VCU will not be an invitee.
They are a large, public, urban, commuter school, not even state supported. The BE would never accept a Commonwealth school. As such they would be a great fit in the ACC.
VCU has nothing in common with BE schools. When the BE expands again in 2018 -2020 to 14 or 16 schools - again no VCU.
Now that Shaka has abandoned VCU, they may have problems moving up to a better conference. Sorry Stever - VCU sucks.

[NJRedman]

^^^^^^^^

This bro wants us to add 2 more DePauls. That was honestly one of the dumbest arguments I have seen. "Water down the league so you can be more like the AAC and kill your RPI"

Also this whole Dayton conversation is absurd. As a Georgetown fan I see no value in adding them with Miller not staying long term. Same reason VCU should never be added.

RPI is nothing more than performance vs schedule. UD/Bona improves your RPI, adds more top 50 wins, gets more bids.

There's no watering down. Run the math. UD/Bona had the same OOC win pct as the rest of the Big East, and the conference is going .500 vs itself no matter what:

Instead of beating:
16-15 Seton Hall
16-15 Seton Hall
14-19 Creighton
14-19 Creighton
13-19 Marquette
13-19 Marquette
12-20 DePaul
12-20 DePaul

Your Hoyas would beat:
18-13 Seton Hall
18-13 Seton Hall
22-11 Dayton
15-18 Creighton
14-18 Marquette
13-19 DePaul
10-21 Bonaventure
10-21 Bonaventure

Your SOS goes up .0100, Your RPI about .0055

Nova’s the same NCAA seed
Georgetown gets a 3 seed, probably goes an extra round of losing to Utah (+1 NCAA Unit)
Butler and Xavier keep their 6 seeds
Providence gets a 5 seed, probably beat someone like Buffalo or Wyoming (+1 NCAA Unit)
St John’s gets a 7 seed, probably beats Indiana (+1 NCAA Unit)
Dayton gets the same 11 seed, but beat UCLA instead of Providence
Seton Hall gets a First Four spot, the home court advantage of UD fans rooting for the conference and picks up a win (+2 NCAA Units)

Two more bids, five more units. KILLING THE LEAGUE!

Or you add BYU and Gonzaga, which hands the 10 of you some road losses when you fly all the way to Spokane & Provo. BYU finishes 7-11 because they wan't win on the road and heads to the NIT, Xavier loses twice to Gonzaga and at 16-15 doesn't get an at-large; and when Gonzaga loses to Duke you have the same amount of NCAA Units as you did this year (only with increased travel costs and no increase in ratings because your fans don't stay up to watch 10 pm tipoffs out west, and the BYU/Gonzaga fans were stuck at work for 4 pm PT tipoffs).

You keep talking about OOC schedule but you do realize that the Bonnies would have to schedule a tougher OOC if they joined the Big East and that their OOc record could very well be worse than it was in the A10. They will have to take part in the Gavitt tip off and every program has been asked to step up their OOC scheduling. With more FB5 teams on your OOC how can you guarantee that the Bonnies will bring a winning OOC to the conference? It is just as likely that they struggle and become an albatross than they lift the conference up. You can't say with any certainty how it will play itself out if they ever did get an invite. Personally they aren't in the top 5 candidates and they might not even be in the top 10. Upstate New York isn't a desirable region to get into, same goes for Western PA. They are dying regions of the rust belt.

To me as a fan and i'm sure to the administrators these are the top ten candidates (if the admins at the schools even have a top ten it's prob closer to top 3 or 4) in no particular order.

VCU
UConn
Wichita St
Gonzaga
Saint Louis
Davidson
Dayton
UMass
Richmond
BYU

I don't think anyone besides our Bonnie fan would put our friends from Northern NY ahead of any of these teams, but like I said the people who make this choice only probably have about 3-5 of these schools in mind for those 2 spots. To me if FB is a non-starter the top 5 more than likely looks like this. Once again in no particular order.

VCU
SLU
Richmond
Dayton
Wichita

Though Davidson might slip in to replace Richmond.

[NJRedman]

Dayton it is then.

Thanks Bill +1

Just telling the truth. If the Big East decides to expand, they should start with Dayton. They can put the Flyers and the Musketeers in different divisions to reduce the overlap. Can't just ignore a fan base that is top 25 in attendance year after year. There is no other candidate that is anywhere close to that.

We're not going to divisions ever. The concept of divisions in D1 BBall is dead. Every major conference has abandoned the idea and as of now only two conferences (MAC & OVC) in D1 currently have divisions for BBall. It' doesn't work and we will never go down that path.