Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[Bill Marsh]

Maybe it was all about money? Now you add two schools, charge them hefty initiation fees, as well as taking a few years to ramp up to full tv earnings disbursement. As long as Fox is bumping up the dollars for the added content, each of the existing 10 schools makes a nice bit more... If all 5 came in this past year, you can't do that as they would all be "charter" members of the New Big East.

Do any other conferences charge initiation fees? Seems kinda prickish to me...not only does the team lose their prior conferences NCAA shares, they may be paying an exit fee...then charging them more to join?

They all do and some are enormous.

[Xudash]

Maybe it was all about money? Now you add two schools, charge them hefty initiation fees, as well as taking a few years to ramp up to full tv earnings disbursement. As long as Fox is bumping up the dollars for the added content, each of the existing 10 schools makes a nice bit more... If all 5 came in this past year, you can't do that as they would all be "charter" members of the New Big East.

Do any other conferences charge initiation fees? Seems kinda prickish to me...not only does the team lose their prior conferences NCAA shares, they may be paying an exit fee...then charging them more to join?

Yes. X had to pay its way into the A10.

I'm fairly certain it's a common practice.

It is almost universal.

Yep. I changed my response because of the fairly recent development of increased exit fees, perhaps with the ACC winning the grand prize for doing that. Beyond those fees, the even taller wall of GOR's has evolved.

College sports. Student-athletes. Sure.

[Bill Marsh]

Everyone thought that the A10 would be not much this year- after losing Butler, Xavier, Charlotte, and Temple. Instead, they had maybe their best year ever. If the 6 teams keep on keeping on- if we take 2, that's still going to leave 4 solid teams. A10 would be weaker, but not to a point where they couldn't be a threat. Almost think we should have taken 2 more from them this year starting with 12, If SLU and say VCU weren't there, the other 4 teams would not have been viewed anywhere near as strong this year.

I agree looking back we should have had 12 this year and a 6 bid conference. Would have really helped our image.

Hindsight is easy. I'm not being critical of your post or stever's post, but think about what the C7 Presidents were evaluating when they first broke away.

Fast forward to now. I can't say I follow the A10 now, though I still respect it and appreciate it for what it did for X, but wasn't this year particularly good for the A10 because they had someg senior laden teams? I presume VCU will be good again. I understand that UD has a nucleus coming back, and assume their recruiting has gotten a little better. But which other program will contribute next season? SLU loses its senior base. UMASS loses a lot.

The A10 isn't going away, but I sense that 6 bids was an anomaly.

Excellent point.

St Louis - loses all 5 starters, no big recruits coming in. Will be rebuilding
St. Joe's - loses 3 starters, top 2 scorers + rebounding & assists leader& #4 scorer. No big recruits. Rebuilding.
GW - loses 3 of top 7 players, leading scorer and #2 scorer/leading rebounder. No big recruits. Rebuilding.
UMass - loses 3 starters, leading scorer/assists leader + #3 scorer + #2 rebounder. No big recruits. Rebuilding.
Dayton - loses 3 of their top 7 players including 2 starters, 1 of whom is leading rebounder/#2 scorer. No big recruits.
VCU - loses 2 starters, one of whom was leading rebounder/#2 scorer. Bring in two 4-star recruits.

VCU is the only team in really good shape with 3 starters, almost their entire bench, and 2 impact recruits. Dayton is next best with 3 starters returning and last years top recruit, 4-star Kyle Davis ready to step up from the bench. The other 4 who went to the tournament are clearly in rebuilding mode.

In other words, if the Big East expanded right now with VCU and Dayton, the A10 would be expected to be a 1-bid league.

[cm5yz6]

[quote="adoraz11]

I agree looking back we should have had 12 this year and a 6 bid conference. Would have really helped our image.[/quote]

Hindsight is easy. I'm not being critical of your post or stever's post, but think about what the C7 Presidents were evaluating when they first broke away.

Fast forward to now. I can't say I follow the A10 now, though I still respect it and appreciate it for what it did for X, but wasn't this year particularly good for the A10 because they had someg senior laden teams? I presume VCU will be good again. I understand that UD has a nucleus coming back, and assume their recruiting has gotten a little better. But which other program will contribute next season? SLU loses its senior base. UMASS loses a lot.

The A10 isn't going away, but I sense that 6 bids was an anomaly.[/quote]


Excellent point.

St Louis - loses all 5 starters, no big recruits coming in. Will be rebuilding
St. Joe's - loses 3 starters, top 2 scorers + rebounding & assists leader& #4 scorer. No big recruits. Rebuilding.
GW - loses 3 of top 7 players, leading scorer and #2 scorer/leading rebounder. No big recruits. Rebuilding.
UMass - loses 3 starters, leading scorer/assists leader + #3 scorer + #2 rebounder. No big recruits. Rebuilding.
Dayton - loses 3 of their top 7 players including 2 starters, 1 of whom is leading rebounder/#2 scorer. No big recruits.
VCU - loses 2 starters, one of whom was leading rebounder/#2 scorer. Bring in two 4-star recruits.

VCU is the only team in really good shape with 3 starters, almost their entire bench, and 2 impact recruits. Dayton is next best with 3 starters returning and last years top recruit, 4-star Kyle Davis ready to step up from the bench. The other 4 who went to the tournament are clearly in rebuilding mode.

In other words, if the Big East expanded right now with VCU and Dayton, the A10 would be expected to be a 1-bid league.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

I would expect at least one of the teams that didn't get a bid this year to get one next year (as was the case for a good number of the teams above). For example,

Richmond, lost their only two seniors with 11 games to go, so the entire roster from the last 11 is coming back, though the playing time was pretty much run by sophomores with the seniors anyway
Rhode Island, losing (for all intents and purposes) 1 senior, albeit their leading scorer, but will probably have a better year

No matter which two would be taken (in this hypothetical scenario where the big east expands this year), its foolish to think that the A-10 would be a 1 bid league

[adoraz11]

VCU and Dayton really seem like no brainers at this point. KIll two birds with one stone, emerge clearly above A10 for next season and get at least one more bid next year, maybe two. We'd be looking at a minimum 4 bid league next year. Most likely more around 6, and that's being conservative.

If it doesn't happen this leadership fails. What on earth are they waiting for? Uconn to drop football???? You have two teams that are great for many reasons, AND they'll be good next year (unlike St. Louis). This is a win-win in every sense. Hell, you even add an Eastern and Midwestern team to keep things even.

[BillikensWin]

I agree looking back we should have had 12 this year and a 6 bid conference. Would have really helped our image.[/quote]

Hindsight is easy. I'm not being critical of your post or stever's post, but think about what the C7 Presidents were evaluating when they first broke away.

Fast forward to now. I can't say I follow the A10 now, though I still respect it and appreciate it for what it did for X, but wasn't this year particularly good for the A10 because they had someg senior laden teams? I presume VCU will be good again. I understand that UD has a nucleus coming back, and assume their recruiting has gotten a little better. But which other program will contribute next season? SLU loses its senior base. UMASS loses a lot.

The A10 isn't going away, but I sense that 6 bids was an anomaly.[/quote]


Excellent point.

St Louis - loses all 5 starters, no big recruits coming in. Will be rebuilding
St. Joe's - loses 3 starters, top 2 scorers + rebounding & assists leader& #4 scorer. No big recruits. Rebuilding.
GW - loses 3 of top 7 players, leading scorer and #2 scorer/leading rebounder. No big recruits. Rebuilding.
UMass - loses 3 starters, leading scorer/assists leader + #3 scorer + #2 rebounder. No big recruits. Rebuilding.
Dayton - loses 3 of their top 7 players including 2 starters, 1 of whom is leading rebounder/#2 scorer. No big recruits.
VCU - loses 2 starters, one of whom was leading rebounder/#2 scorer. Bring in two 4-star recruits.

VCU is the only team in really good shape with 3 starters, almost their entire bench, and 2 impact recruits. Dayton is next best with 3 starters returning and last years top recruit, 4-star Kyle Davis ready to step up from the bench. The other 4 who went to the tournament are clearly in rebuilding mode.

In other words, if the Big East expanded right now with VCU and Dayton, the A10 would be expected to be a 1-bid league.[/quote]

There is zero chance of that league being 1 bid. Saying such shows your complete disregard for reality.
GW is not rebuilding. UMass loses Chaz Williams and two negative value players.
As for your complete ignorance about SLU, we've covered that.

[adoraz11]

How is SLU projected next year? Such as RPI wise? I like the team just feel like their RPI next year will be dreadful. Two or three years from now would probably work out though.

[BillikensWin]

How is SLU projected next year? Such as RPI wise? I like the team just feel like their RPI next year will be dreadful. Two or three years from now would probably work out though.

Depends on how you define dreadful...They won't be as highly ranked as this year's team, but I don't see them being the anchor Bill Marsh sees. Fair comp I think would be Lasalle's rating out of the A-10 this year.

[Bill Marsh]

How is SLU projected next year? Such as RPI wise? I like the team just feel like their RPI next year will be dreadful. Two or three years from now would probably work out though.

Depends on how you define dreadful...They won't be as highly ranked as this year's team, but I don't see them being the anchor Bill Marsh sees. Fair comp I think would be Lasalle's rating out of the A-10 this year.

I admittedly don't know a lot about the St Louis program, so I'll defer to your knowledge. Please explain your optimism for next year.

My reasons are simple. They graduate the entire starting 5.

That is by definition a rebuilding year next season. When I look at what they have to rebuild with, they have some good recruits, but no one who is projected to be an impact player in their first year. I'm not saying that 3-star or even 2-star recruits can't surprise, but we have to admit that when they do, it is in fact a surprise. I can't compare the St Louis recruits to all the other recruits in the country, so I have to rely on the people who make it their business to do so.

When I look at the programs they'll be competing against who have also had success this year and they bring back more pieces from this year's successful teams, I have to figure they're a few steps ahead of where the Billikens are going into the season. I have nothing against St Louis. I'm just trying to be objective with admittedly limited knowledge. If you have more, please share.

When you say U've described them as an anchor (not my word), I'm simply looking at the fact that the Big East would be a step up in class, a step up in the level of competition, and a step up in the level of athletes. 2014-15 is just bad timing for the Billikens. They couldn't be less prepared for this kind of a step up in level.

BTW, what is a Billiken? Serious question. A friend of mine recently contacted me and wants to know. I appreciate your answer.

[BillikensWin]

How is SLU projected next year? Such as RPI wise? I like the team just feel like their RPI next year will be dreadful. Two or three years from now would probably work out though.

Depends on how you define dreadful...They won't be as highly ranked as this year's team, but I don't see them being the anchor Bill Marsh sees. Fair comp I think would be Lasalle's rating out of the A-10 this year.

I admittedly don't know a lot about the St Louis program, so I'll defer to your knowledge. Please explain your optimism for next year.

My reasons are simple. They graduate the entire starting 5.

That is by definition a rebuilding year next season. When I look at what they have to rebuild with, they have some good recruits, but no one who is projected to be an impact player in their first year. I'm not saying that 3-star or even 2-star recruits can't surprise, but we have to admit that when they do, it is in fact a surprise. I can't compare the St Louis recruits to all the other recruits in the country, so I have to rely on the people who make it their business to do so.

When I look at the programs they'll be competing against who have also had success this year and they bring back more pieces from this year's successful teams, I have to figure they're a few steps ahead of where the Billikens are going into the season. I have nothing against St Louis. I'm just trying to be objective with admittedly limited knowledge. If you have more, please share.

When you say U've described them as an anchor (not my word), I'm simply looking at the fact that the Big East would be a step up in class, a step up in the level of competition, and a step up in the level of athletes. 2014-15 is just bad timing for the Billikens. They couldn't be less prepared for this kind of a step up in level.

BTW, what is a Billiken? Serious question. A friend of mine recently contacted me and wants to know. I appreciate your answer.

http://www.billikens.com/billiken is the answer to your last question.

This class (for those who value recruiting rankings) is higher ranked than the senior class that just left.

I think SLU is more prepared than Butler was last year (not that being more prepared than a team that finished 2nd to last is a huge deal).