Conference Realignment Thread v. 2016

[Bill Marsh]

Money is not and will not be a problem for UConn. (IDK about Cincy.) Remember, this is Connecticut we're talking about, the state withthehighest per capita income in the country. The university has statewide support, statewide interest, and statewide media coverage. Their BOT 2 months ago approved a plan for the independent fundraising arm of athletics to tap new, non-tuition sources of funding. They understand the financial implications of being in the AAC and they have a plan to deal with it.

UConn is not Akron and never will be. UConn is the flagship university of the state and the only major player in college athletics in a state of almost 4 million - with no instate competition from professional sports. Akron is one of a handful of regional public universities in Ohio, none of which are anything more than mid major in any sport, they all rank behind TOSU & Cincy. Akron has no major presence or revenue in any sport while UConn is. The most successful basketball program in the country in recent years - both men's and women's. That makes UConn immediately relevant in a way that Akron never will be, the analogy doesn't work.

UConn is not in a deep hole financially and is unlikely ever to be in one. Thy simply are not.

UConn would obviously accept an invitation from the Big XII if it comes. But if it doesn't, that's not the ended the world because it's not really what they aspire to. They want to be able to associate with research universities like those from the B1G or the ACC. So, if the Big XII doesn't come knocks, they will continue to roll up their sleeves and work toward their goal.

Bill, I appreciate your passion regarding UConn but you're totally off base. It's not as easy as the black and white statements you proclaim: "They'll never come back to the Big East, they'll never drop football to FCS, money will never be a problem for UConn". How can you possibly say that with such "certainty"? Crazier things have happened, especially in college sports. Look, I really could not care less if they come back or not because personally I love where this conference is at. And I certainly don't think anyone working for the Big East thinks it's going to happen any time soon, or ever planning on it. But to say never? If they don't get invited to a P5 conference it's definitely a possibility.

Within the last month (March 13, 2016), the New York Times published an article on the UConn football problem (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/14/sports/basketball/football-drags-on-uconns-power-5-ambitions.html?_r=0). Within the article I'll bring up these couple of paragraphs:

In addition, the UConn athletic department faces a big financial hole.

As a member of the Big East, the department was more or less self-sufficient. Now it loses around $20 million a year on $70 million in revenue. In effect, the athletic department funds its teams as if they were in a Power 5 conference, but without Power 5 revenue sources.

Susan Herbst, UConn’s president, understands the importance of the Huskies to the state and believes in sports as an important component of university life. But the state of Connecticut is facing a $900 million budget deficit, and there is a real question about how long Herbst will be able to subsidize the athletic department out of the university’s general budget. It won’t be forever.

One solution — indeed, the most practical solution — would be for UConn to de-emphasize or drop football and rejoin the Big East, which has been reconstituted as a basketball league and includes old Huskies rivals like Georgetown and St. John’s. When it was reformulated, the Big East signed a 12-year, $500 million television contract with Fox. Without the expense of football, UConn athletics could well be back in the black.

Sound familiar? If the New York Times is writing articles about a UConn-Big East reunion how is the idea "out of left field" as you previously proclaimed? You're acting like this is the craziest idea in the world and anyone who thinks there's a 1% chance of it happening is completely nuts. A state with a $900 million budget deficit is not going to keep plugging in money for a sunk cost in UConn football. As I said, the citizens of Connecticut are too smart to let that happen forever if they continually aren't seeing results. A lot can change in a decade.

Regarding your statement that "UConn is not in a deep hole financially and is unlikely ever to be in one." First of all, according to the Hartford Courant (February 25, 2016), the state of Connecticut will be in a $900 million budget deficit next year (http://www.courant.com/politics/hc-budget-deficit-rises-0226-20160225-story.html). Yes, the state with the highest per capita income in the country! So please don't think the two are related. Actual quotes from the article: ""Those are just incredible numbers. What's happening is really shocking,'' said Senate Republican leader Len Fasano of North Haven. "People should be scared.""

What happens when the state is in a huge hole? Well... in terms of UConn, state funding will decrease next year by $6.5 million- The Daily Campus, March 29, 2016 (http://dailycampus.com/stories/deficit-compromise-hits-uconn-with-65-million-in-state-funding-cuts). On top of this decrease in state funding, UConn is currently in a $40.2 million deficit- The CT Mirror, December 16, 2015 (http://ctmirror.org/2015/12/16/uconn-raises-tuition-promises-major-budget-cuts/). You don't call that being in "a deep hole financially?" Not only is UConn in a huge hole financially, the state of Connecticut is in an historic financial hole as well. These stats completely and directly refute your entire argument.

So, no offense, but this time I think I'll put my trust in the New York Times, Hartford Courant, The Daily Campus, and the CT Mirror over a message board poster. But definitely keep thinking you know everything about UConn because you happen to live in the state. And certainly don't let the facts get in the way of your argument.

Exactly! Bill Marsh is either being stubborn or "ignorant" to these things. UCONN is not in great shape if they do not get into a P5 conference soon. How long they can wait if they don't remains to be seen but it won't be forever. Bill states, that UCONN has no plan B. They better start working on one.

Yes, for the 1000th time, UCONN is a long shot to return but like Fenway said it is certainly not an impossible scenario to suggest. If it happens, UCONN would be a great addition to the BE. All other current options are not great additions and there is no reason to add them.

Fenway Friar did an excellent job making his point, but you couldn't resist piling on so you could continue your personal attack even though you have nothing constructive to add to what he wrote. I'll just say that I hear what you have to say.

In response, I am neither stubborn nor ignorant. I live in Connecticut and sit on a local town board as well as being politically active. I a a CT taxpayer. So, I am well aware of the fiscal issues that my state is dealing with right now - frankly, more aware than you are. I am also aware that the situation at a given moment in time does not define how things will be forever.

I have knowledge of the situation at UConn that I have shared with you. You are free to reject is as you obviously have. That's fine. However, I doubt that those who run the Big East office and advise the presidents are counseling them to wait around for the day when UConn and Notre Dame become available.

As far as ND is concerned, the B1G already made the mistake of waiting around for them because the affiliation seemed to make too much sense for ND to pass. Well, ND did and the B1G won't make that mistake again. Neither will the BE.

I understand how appealing an affiliation between the BE and UConn is from a basketball POV. Everything else aside, just from a practical POV, do you really think that the BE presidents created the association they did for the purpose of bringing in a university like UConn? Does anything they've done suggest even remotely that UConn is the kind of partner they were seeking? Do you think for a minute that UConn would be viewed is a reliable long term risk at any point?

Again just being practical, do you really think that UConn is looking to build associations with a group of religious, private institutions whose primary focus is on teaching and much less on research? As a fan, I'd love to see UConn in the BE. Given that I live between Hartford and Storrs, it would once again give me easy access to seeing in person teams that I follow and love to watch. But my personal preference will not be a factor. That train has left the station. There simply is not a mutual benefit that will overcome the issues that led to the divorce in the first place.

I do not expect you to respond to any of the questions I've posed. They are rhetorical and were simply asked to offer food for thought. Thanks for the conversation. All the best.

[Masterofreality]

A school from the Big East just WON the NATIONAL BASKETBALL CHAMPIONSHIP.
Six schools from said league were ranked in the Top 25 at some point during the season.
There are 3 to 4 schools (depending on what source you look at) that are ranked in next year's early Top 25.
We have 10 schools of like mind and synergy.
We have a perfect 10 members with a Round Robin schedule.
Fox is happy with the arrangement.
The Daytons, the VCU's the St. Louis's and the Gonzagas are not needed. Nor should they be.


Leave the realignment talk to the other "secondary" conferences.

[FenwayFriar]

Money is not and will not be a problem for UConn. (IDK about Cincy.) Remember, this is Connecticut we're talking about, the state withthehighest per capita income in the country. The university has statewide support, statewide interest, and statewide media coverage. Their BOT 2 months ago approved a plan for the independent fundraising arm of athletics to tap new, non-tuition sources of funding. They understand the financial implications of being in the AAC and they have a plan to deal with it.

UConn is not Akron and never will be. UConn is the flagship university of the state and the only major player in college athletics in a state of almost 4 million - with no instate competition from professional sports. Akron is one of a handful of regional public universities in Ohio, none of which are anything more than mid major in any sport, they all rank behind TOSU & Cincy. Akron has no major presence or revenue in any sport while UConn is. The most successful basketball program in the country in recent years - both men's and women's. That makes UConn immediately relevant in a way that Akron never will be, the analogy doesn't work.

UConn is not in a deep hole financially and is unlikely ever to be in one. Thy simply are not.

UConn would obviously accept an invitation from the Big XII if it comes. But if it doesn't, that's not the ended the world because it's not really what they aspire to. They want to be able to associate with research universities like those from the B1G or the ACC. So, if the Big XII doesn't come knocks, they will continue to roll up their sleeves and work toward their goal.

Bill, I appreciate your passion regarding UConn but you're totally off base. It's not as easy as the black and white statements you proclaim: "They'll never come back to the Big East, they'll never drop football to FCS, money will never be a problem for UConn". How can you possibly say that with such "certainty"? Crazier things have happened, especially in college sports. Look, I really could not care less if they come back or not because personally I love where this conference is at. And I certainly don't think anyone working for the Big East thinks it's going to happen any time soon, or ever planning on it. But to say never? If they don't get invited to a P5 conference it's definitely a possibility.

Within the last month (March 13, 2016), the New York Times published an article on the UConn football problem (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/14/sports/basketball/football-drags-on-uconns-power-5-ambitions.html?_r=0). Within the article I'll bring up these couple of paragraphs:

In addition, the UConn athletic department faces a big financial hole.

As a member of the Big East, the department was more or less self-sufficient. Now it loses around $20 million a year on $70 million in revenue. In effect, the athletic department funds its teams as if they were in a Power 5 conference, but without Power 5 revenue sources.

Susan Herbst, UConn’s president, understands the importance of the Huskies to the state and believes in sports as an important component of university life. But the state of Connecticut is facing a $900 million budget deficit, and there is a real question about how long Herbst will be able to subsidize the athletic department out of the university’s general budget. It won’t be forever.

One solution — indeed, the most practical solution — would be for UConn to de-emphasize or drop football and rejoin the Big East, which has been reconstituted as a basketball league and includes old Huskies rivals like Georgetown and St. John’s. When it was reformulated, the Big East signed a 12-year, $500 million television contract with Fox. Without the expense of football, UConn athletics could well be back in the black.

Sound familiar? If the New York Times is writing articles about a UConn-Big East reunion how is the idea "out of left field" as you previously proclaimed? You're acting like this is the craziest idea in the world and anyone who thinks there's a 1% chance of it happening is completely nuts. A state with a $900 million budget deficit is not going to keep plugging in money for a sunk cost in UConn football. As I said, the citizens of Connecticut are too smart to let that happen forever if they continually aren't seeing results. A lot can change in a decade.

Regarding your statement that "UConn is not in a deep hole financially and is unlikely ever to be in one." First of all, according to the Hartford Courant (February 25, 2016), the state of Connecticut will be in a $900 million budget deficit next year (http://www.courant.com/politics/hc-budget-deficit-rises-0226-20160225-story.html). Yes, the state with the highest per capita income in the country! So please don't think the two are related. Actual quotes from the article: ""Those are just incredible numbers. What's happening is really shocking,'' said Senate Republican leader Len Fasano of North Haven. "People should be scared.""

What happens when the state is in a huge hole? Well... in terms of UConn, state funding will decrease next year by $6.5 million- The Daily Campus, March 29, 2016 (http://dailycampus.com/stories/deficit-compromise-hits-uconn-with-65-million-in-state-funding-cuts). On top of this decrease in state funding, UConn is currently in a $40.2 million deficit- The CT Mirror, December 16, 2015 (http://ctmirror.org/2015/12/16/uconn-raises-tuition-promises-major-budget-cuts/). You don't call that being in "a deep hole financially?" Not only is UConn in a huge hole financially, the state of Connecticut is in an historic financial hole as well. These stats completely and directly refute your entire argument.

So, no offense, but this time I think I'll put my trust in the New York Times, Hartford Courant, The Daily Campus, and the CT Mirror over a message board poster. But definitely keep thinking you know everything about UConn because you happen to live in the state. And certainly don't let the facts get in the way of your argument.

Well said. Well written.

A couple of minor points.

1. I'm not passionate about UConn. I'm passionate about the BE and don't want to see the conference wasting it's time waiting for a reunion with UConn which will never happen. You might notice that the NY Times article cites nothing factual in its suggestion for UConn to the BE. It's just something that makes sense to the writer. It doesn't to the university.

2. UConn will substantially increase its funding of athletics with private money, which I've mentioned several times. That will not seek additional money from tuition or from the taxpayers. They are well aware of the financial realities and have a plan to move forward. Private money has been the funding source for the rise to prominence of many big time college programs before them.

3. I'm not trying to make an argument. I'm trying to share with you and others information which I have access to. Obviously you're not interested, so I won't beat a dead horse. My guess is that the conference office has access to the same info that I do.

Thanks for the exchange. I truly respect your POV. We'll see how things work out in time.

Thanks Bill, I totally respect your perspective as well. As a Big East guy thru & thru I do long for the days of having a true New England rival for PC in the Big East. By far, UConn is the Friars biggest (old or new) Big East rival. Even though we still play BC every year, it's obviously not the same. Hopefully PC and UConn can come to terms with a non-conference playing agreement, whether it's a home-and-home or a neutral game at Mohegan Sun. Although I like where we're at as a conference, I do hate that football destroyed UConn in terms of a basketball school. Anyway, we'll see what happens and appreciate your insight. Go Big East.

P.S. I would be interested in the information you have access to; I'm intrigued.

[_lh]

Bill,

I agree, Fenway Friar did do an excellent job making his point but I AM NOT PILLING ON. I have been making the same point! You can try to ignore that if you want but that’s the truth. I mentioned the very article he posted a link to when I spoke about UCONN’s financial troubles. For some reason you respond in a civil matter to him but not to me when Fenway and I are arguing the same thing. I never once personally attacked you either.

You are being stubborn refusing to acknowledge that in today’s landscape that there is an even remote chance UCONN could move back to the BE in 10 to 15 years. You can’t say with 100% certainty of that. I never said it was likely UCONN would come back just that it COULD happen. You stubbornly say it won’t. I never called you ignorant either. I said what you said was ignorant. Big difference.

No one is suggesting that the BE should wait around for UCONN. I will say this once again to you….the BE is fine at 10 teams. The only ones worth expanding for are ND and UCONN. If neither ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever happen – so what.

I will say this again too. What UCONN wants and what they end up with might not be the same thing. I think this is pretty clear. UCONN wants to be in the ACC or at least a P5 conference and not the BE. Things might work out for them and they might not. UCONN does not WANT to be in the AAC but they ARE in the AAC.

If the Big XII expands to 12 teams and UCONN is not one of them, UCONN is in trouble and can’t wait forever hoping to get into a P5 conference. Money is running out.

[_lh]

One more thing:

UConn PLANS to increase its funding of athletics with private money. They DON'T PLAN TO seek additional money from tuition or from the taxpayers. They are well aware of the financial realities and have a plan to move forward. Private money has been the funding source for the rise to prominence of many big time college programs before them.

PLANS are great but at the rate they are losing money trying to compete with P5 schools without P5 money does not bode well for their future if they continue to be left out but PLAN away.

[JPSchmack]

The A10 is watered down now.
You put a couple A10 teams into the Big East mix and they'll get slaughtered, which means their performance numbers tank, which means the Big East teams that would have to play them would see some degradation in their numbers.

You're singular case for expansion for the purpose of gaming bids is simply myopic. We - the Big East - would get creamed in the national press and in national perception if we brought aboard a couple mid-majors out of the A10.

We love the round robin. We are closely united with one another. We cheer for each other during the OOC slate and during the post-season, and we otherwise look forward to pounding each other during conference play.

We've already proven that we can get 60% of the conference into the NCAA Tournament. We just earned $20 million in 17 days. And now a National Champion has come from the Big East.

You are simply flat out wrong about maximizing - gaming - bids. It is not the end all end game when it comes to managing a conference and a conference's brand. IT ISN'T! Val and the Presidents are very sharp people. They get it and they like what they have, and Fox and MSG are loving it as well.

DILUTION IS NOT THE ANSWER. There is nothing that you can offer - IN FACT - given what happened this year with the Big East, especially compared to what happened in a weaker, but certainly diluted A10, that will convince anyone around here that adding a couple A10 teams to the existing Big East would result in a positive outcome. No one in their right mind would pursue a dilution strategy to game a couple more bids - possibly, never any guaranties when it comes to this stuff - in the face of what the Big East is now accomplishing as it exists.

I’m not sure why you’re posting the NCAA performance of the league. We both agree it’s pretty good. You’re just against making it better for reasons passing understanding.

You keep bringing up the word “dilute” with zero context. (And you keep comparing the current Big East to the Atlantic 10. Which is stupid. More teams doesn’t make you perform like the Atlantic 10. Don't add six Fordhams or you'll become the A-10).

What makes the Big East “THE BIG FREAKING EAST” is that you have teams that beat the crap out of other teams, in other conferences, A LOT. That’s it. That’s all that separates anyone.

The 10 of you will not do that LESS with a new addition. So what gets diluted? As long as you bring in someone who wins a lot of non-conference games against inferior competition, you are fine from a conference RPI/SOS standpoint. You guys are what… .753 regular OOC total in three years? Anyone who can hit 9-3 makes you better, period.

Show me exactly how it dilutes the Big East… what are the Big East standings going to be? The league will go .500 against itself in conference play. With the exact same OOC as before. Which means… you’re exactly the same as before, only with 1 or 2 more NCAA bids, More NCAA games to getting wins and making even more money. More TV markets. More Fan bases to sell Big East Tournament tickets to. And everyone writing “The Big East is EVEN STRONGER” articles.


You love the round robin? That’s great. I love baseball doubleheaders, but they don’t make the team more money and they are HARDER TO WIN.


Everything else you’ve used as a reason to oppose the smartest thing you can possibly do is something that would remain 100% unchanged.

[Xudash]

The A10 is watered down now.
You put a couple A10 teams into the Big East mix and they'll get slaughtered, which means their performance numbers tank, which means the Big East teams that would have to play them would see some degradation in their numbers.

You're singular case for expansion for the purpose of gaming bids is simply myopic. We - the Big East - would get creamed in the national press and in national perception if we brought aboard a couple mid-majors out of the A10.

We love the round robin. We are closely united with one another. We cheer for each other during the OOC slate and during the post-season, and we otherwise look forward to pounding each other during conference play.

We've already proven that we can get 60% of the conference into the NCAA Tournament. We just earned $20 million in 17 days. And now a National Champion has come from the Big East.

You are simply flat out wrong about maximizing - gaming - bids. It is not the end all end game when it comes to managing a conference and a conference's brand. IT ISN'T! Val and the Presidents are very sharp people. They get it and they like what they have, and Fox and MSG are loving it as well.

DILUTION IS NOT THE ANSWER. There is nothing that you can offer - IN FACT - given what happened this year with the Big East, especially compared to what happened in a weaker, but certainly diluted A10, that will convince anyone around here that adding a couple A10 teams to the existing Big East would result in a positive outcome. No one in their right mind would pursue a dilution strategy to game a couple more bids - possibly, never any guaranties when it comes to this stuff - in the face of what the Big East is now accomplishing as it exists.

I’m not sure why you’re posting the NCAA performance of the league. We both agree it’s pretty good. You’re just against making it better for reasons passing understanding.

You keep bringing up the word “dilute” with zero context. (And you keep comparing the current Big East to the Atlantic 10. Which is stupid. More teams doesn’t make you perform like the Atlantic 10. Don't add six Fordhams or you'll become the A-10).

What makes the Big East “THE BIG FREAKING EAST” is that you have teams that beat the crap out of other teams, in other conferences, A LOT. That’s it. That’s all that separates anyone.

The 10 of you will not do that LESS with a new addition. So what gets diluted? As long as you bring in someone who wins a lot of non-conference games against inferior competition, you are fine from a conference RPI/SOS standpoint. You guys are what… .753 regular OOC total in three years? Anyone who can hit 9-3 makes you better, period.

Show me exactly how it dilutes the Big East… what are the Big East standings going to be? The league will go .500 against itself in conference play. With the exact same OOC as before. Which means… you’re exactly the same as before, only with 1 or 2 more NCAA bids, More NCAA games to getting wins and making even more money. More TV markets. More Fan bases to sell Big East Tournament tickets to. And everyone writing “The Big East is EVEN STRONGER” articles.


You love the round robin? That’s great. I love baseball doubleheaders, but they don’t make the team more money and they are HARDER TO WIN.


Everything else you’ve used as a reason to oppose the smartest thing you can possibly do is something that would remain 100% unchanged.

Well, since you've now come onto this board, which you do as nothing more than a guest, at best, and refer to a comparison of the Big East to the A10 as stupid, when it is you who are advocating for the inclusion of certain A10 teams in the Big East, I'll take that as an opening to be firm with you as well.

First and foremost, the Big East is operating very successfully as a ten team conference right now. There is no appetite on the part of the Presidents to change it. Were they to consider expansion, especially given Val's comments about a number of boxes that would have to be checked in order to pull the trigger on that, they probably would be looking out over a landscape that includes no mid-majors as candidates. It would not make sense to DILUTE a major conference with mid-major teams.Whether you like it or not, at the national level, the narrative on the A10 is that it is not a major conference, and none of its teams are viewed as being major programs. Could certain A10 teams be added and help game bids? Perhaps, but, there are no guaranties, as I discuss below, and why go that direction anyway? Is that a sufficient explanation of the dilution issue for you?

Secondly, you love baseball doubleheaders? Good for you. I could care less about them, and I certainly believe it's stupid to compare a baseball doubleheader to a round robin format for basketball. Most of us here love the round robin format. It IS hard. There are no nights off in the Big East. That's good, as that gets those of us who are equipped to make the post-season ready for it.

Thirdly, we appear to be making a lot of money while only having to spread that over 10 teams, and we don't need additional fanbases to make the Big East Tournament more successful. It's already successful.

In the main, here's your real problem: you cannot guaranty that more bids would result from adding a team or two. You simply can't do that. You love to speak in terms of absolutes. I have news for you: I was absolutely certain that Georgetown was going to have a banner year last season. Guess what, so did a lot of people:

2015-16 Preseason Coaches' Poll:

1. Villanova (9) 81
2. Georgetown (1) 70
3. Butler 67
4. Xavier 55
5. Providence 45
6. Marquette 44
7. Seton Hall 27
8. DePaul 25
9. Creighton 23
10. St. John's 13

Well, consider how that turned out. Nothing can be guaranteed. Nothing. And that is with a program with a truly national brand. That is just one example of how nothing can be guarantied when it comes to D1A basketball.

I posted the performance of all the conferences in the Tournament, highlighting the Big East and the A10 for the BLATANTLY OBVIOUS reason that the Big East is doing something very well - AS-IS. The A10, not so much. The same A10 that appears to attempt to follow your "plan" of having some patsies in place in order to game bids.

We're doing the smartest thing we could possibly do: were holding at ten teams and growing the brand of the conference from that base. If it were so smart to game bids as you suggest, why aren't the Presidents pursuing it now? I believe you have stated that you think Val Ackerman is stupid. Do you truly believe she's stupid? Do you believe the Presidents of our ten universities are stupid?

I have news for you: we don't believe they're stupid.

[gtmoBlue]

The Big East will expand...it is merely a matter of 1-2 years time. I believe the Pres's are waiting for the next round of football raids, which could "free" 1 or 2 top tier basketball schools. At the very least another football shakeout could broaden the candidate pool.

Who are the Big East Schools? Who would be a good to great fit moving forward.
Presidential Criteria:
a) Basketball 1st
b) Academic excellence
c) Private, Catholic, or Religious
d) Cultural fit
(Italics mine-gtmo)

1st of all thanks to Bill Marsh and Masterofreality for the use of portions of one of their previous posts.

Items italicized in these posts are germane to the central argument for and against Big East expansion. Many are passionate in their staunch resistance to expansion and change, some are nostalgic for the "good ole days" and long for the return of former members, and some think we have a perfect world with the unabashed love of "a round robin schedule". Most think we should take more A10 teams, some favor the Zags. Several would hold out for a longshot return of UConn/ND. Folks out in leftfield (me) think Football Five refugees will be available in 1-2 years. A few such as JPSchmack advocate middle/bottom filling to raise the overall conference "tide" so more of the middle can get NCAA bids (from avg of 5 to an avg of 7 bids/year).

So here we are... Basketball as Primary sport...Good to great academics...Private...Cultural or Institutional Fit. Which is the primary criteria?

IMHO the primary criteria is Privacy. Private universities are the overwhelming sole most important category of the current lot and will be the overriding factor for all new accessions. In this new configuration privacy even trumps religious affiliation - as for these educational institutions - money is the most important consideration.

In the old order (Big East) the mix of public and private schools had no choice but to divulge, disclose, and report "everything the conference did" as the law requires public schools to report. Thus the former BE reported everything required by law and the private members reported far more than they would have been required to report were they independent or in a private conference. Under this new order Big East the conference reports the absolute minimum - far less information and data, and has far more control over it's inner workings, can easily refuse FOIA requests to divulge information, and covets this new power and control. No email leaks, no FOIA incursions, no compliance with heavy-handed gov't reporting. This is a tight-lipped group and they cherish this newfound power.

If I am correct in this assumption then all of the public candidate schools are out of the running - immediately. Notwithstanding their standing and status in academics, sports, and cultural fit pedigrees, they are automatically out of the running as candidates. If one public school becomes a member, the entire conference is once again open to public perview, government scrutiny, and the nosey FOIA requests of the media. No, the BE Prez's club would not be amenable to this...they have seen it previously and definitely prefer the current arrangements.

This being the case, only private schools have any consideration of being accessioned into the current Big East club. Who are the candidates of merit.

Football Five teams: After next round of FF raids (on the ACC) - In order of likelihood.
Duke, Wake Forest, Notre Dame*, Boston College*, Syracuse*.
(non-ACC schools) Vanderbilt, Northwestern, & Stanford.
* 3 former BE schools. Trust issues would need to be worked.

Top tier non-football five teams: In order of preference.
Gonzaga, BYU, Dayton, George Washington^ (DC), & St Mary's, Cal.
^compromise needed by current BE school in this city.

Other non-FF teams: In random assemblage.
U of San Francisco, Holy Cross, SLU, Detroit, St Bonaventure, George Mason^(DC), American^(DC), Tulane, all the Loyola's, Oral Roberts, Pepperdine, others.

While many will rapidly ridicule and point out the ludicrous nature of this listing...that a FF school would give up their standing and bucks, etc., etc. Things change...the footballers have shown us that much - on a consistent basis. It should be pointed out that in the next round of raiding - especially if the ACC is the target as many believe - the acclaim and monies previously accrued would be subject to vaporizing given, that additional lynchpin universities would be gone to the raiding conferences. As such, remaining private universities would give strong favorable consideration to, and evaluation of, an offer by the Big East. Wake Forest and Duke would be the primary targets. Both BC and ND are former Big East schools, and their histories bely strong trust issues, and rejoining the BE would be viewed as their last resort. Of the remaining FF schools, only the SEC's Vandy would seem a viable candidate...but probably only under dire circumstances. All the private universities, including those mentioned above, now look upon the Big East with envy...wishing they had the opportunity to lock the gov't, the Media, and the public, OUT of their university business and affairs.

Of the non football five the biggest names are Gonzaga, BYU, and Dayton. The Washington DC area has 3 good candidates but would need to appease Georgetown to get any of them. Consideration of any of the others is dependent on whether a geographic emphasis (NE vs Mid Atl, SE vs Mid Atl. Midwest vs West Coast, etc.) should come into play.

Best possible additions: 12 teams - Duke/Gonzaga. 14 team - ND/Syracuse
Most likely additions: 12 team - Gonzaga/Dayton. 14 team - SLU/BYU?
My picks: 12 team - Duke/Gonzaga. 14 team - Syracuse/George Mason (or GW)
*(fixed the Temple/Syracuse gaff.)

We are 1-2 years out from expansion, unless the football five get impatient. These
discussions are good food for thought.

It has been shown that good rotational in conference play can be maintained with up
to a 13 team configuration - see the JPSchmack posts in the 2015 conf expansion topic thread.
There is nothing special or magical irt a "true RR schedule".

Is Fox happy? Would Fox be happier with more BE content?
Networks are always happier with more content to offer viewers.

The BE president's would disagree - good teams &/or Strategic teams
are always welcome. Timing is the biggest factor in gaining good to great
assets. If a Gonzaga or Duke wanted to join today, the Presidents would make
room for them. And Fox would up the ante for the additional content. Don't
allow pride, shortsightedness, or predjudice to cloud your thinking.
gtmoBlue

Bill Marsh - I have knowledge of the situation at UConn that I have shared with you. You are free to reject is as you obviously have. That's fine. However, I doubt that those who run the Big East office and advise the presidents are counseling them to wait around for the day when UConn and Notre Dame become available.

As far as ND is concerned, the B1G already made the mistake of waiting around for them because the affiliation seemed to make too much sense for ND to pass. Well, ND did and the B1G won't make that mistake again. Neither will the BE.


I understand how appealing an affiliation between the BE and UConn is from a basketball POV. Everything else aside, just from a practical POV, do you really think that the BE presidents created the association they did for the propose of bringing in a university like UConn? Does anything they've done suggest even remotely that UConn is the kind of partner they were seeking? Do you think for a minute that UConn would be viewed is a reliable long term risk at any point?

Again just being practical, do you really think that UConn is looking to build associations with a group of religious, private institutions whose primary focus is on teaching and much less on research? As a fan, I'd love to see UConn in the BE. Given that I live between Hartford and Storrs, it would once again give me easy access to seeing in person teams that I follow and love to watch. But my personal preference will not be a factor. That train has left the station. There simply is not a mutual benefit that will overcome the issues that led to the divorce in the first place.

I do not expect you to respond to any of the questions I've posed. They are rhetorical and were simply asked to offer food for thought. Thanks for the conversation. All the best.
Bill Marsh

...and the

Masterofreality » Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:16 pm

A school from the Big East just WON the NATIONAL BASKETBALL CHAMPIONSHIP.
Six schools from said league were ranked in the Top 25 at some point during the season.
There are 3 to 4 schools (depending on what source you look at) that are ranked in next year's early Top 25.
We have 10 schools of like mind and synergy.
We have a perfect 10 members with a Round Robin schedule.
Fox is happy with the arrangement.
The Daytons, the VCU's the St. Louis's and the Gonzagas are not needed. Nor should they be.

Leave the realignment talk to the other "secondary" conferences.

[_lh]

The Big East will expand...it is merely a matter of 1-2 years time.

I don't think this statement is even close to being remotely true.

[paulxu]

I don't think Temple is a "private" university.