Memphis and Cincy to Big 12?

[notkirkcameron]

One comment on VCU...
Fun team and all, but from memory here, it seems like recently in any "showdown" non-conference "statement" games that VCU has had with great opponents, they get hammered.

Off the top of my head:
This year, tourney kickoff vs Villanova, lost by 20.
(they then did beat Oregon easily, but it played out like an anti-climatic undercard game).
Later, showdown at home to Virginia, lost by 20.

Last year, tourney kickoff in Puerto Rico vs Florida State, were losing by 30.

Another year, big NCAA showdown matchup with Michigan, lost by 30.
Same year, big A-10 showdown with Saint Louis, were losing by 30 (this was in conference of course).
Another year, hammered by Seton Hall.

Good wins vs Tennessee, Oregon, Northern Iowa, Virginia close last year, but man, in their massive showdown games, "statement" games recently, they've gotten rocked. The only recent comparable ooc game for any of the 10 of us was Creighton vs Baylor... VCU has had like 5 of those disasters... and at least the Jays could point to their blowout wins vs Cal, Nebraska and Villanova twice, among others like vs PC.

I remember the ACC matchups, because I want VCU to blow out every ACC opponent... that's why the FSU and Virginia blowouts stick in my head... it gives cover to the ACC, who can conveniently point to a blowout win vs VCU to give their overrated teams credibility.

Really, the thing to remember about VCU is that, other than that one stretch where they got hot for two weeks, caught lightning in a bottle, and made it to the Final Four...VCU has NEVER, EVER, NOT EVEN ONCE made it past the first weekend of the tournament IN PROGRAM HISTORY.

Here's a list of some schools that have made AT LEAST as many Sweet 16s as VCU has since the Rams started their program in 1973-74. For brevity's sake, I've only listed schools who did so in the past 10 years, and who would be theoretically within the Big East's geographic footprint. So if anyone wants to add VCU, these schools should also be given consideration.

Alabama-Birmingham (2005)
Bradley (2006)
Cornell (2010)
Davidson (2008)
Dayton (2014)
Florida Gulf Coast (2013)
George Mason (2006)
LaSalle (2013)
Northern Iowa (2010)
Ohio University (2012)
Richmond (2011)
Southern Illinois (2007)
UW-Milwaukee (2005)
Valparaiso (1998)
Western Kentucky (2008)
Wichita State (2006, 2013)

This is the company VCU keeps. A one-off, flash-in-the-pan program that punched above its weight one year. No one should seriously be talking about VCU to the Big East, They're in the A-10 and that's right where they belong.

[butlerguy03]

One comment on VCU...
Fun team and all, but from memory here, it seems like recently in any "showdown" non-conference "statement" games that VCU has had with great opponents, they get hammered.

Off the top of my head:
This year, tourney kickoff vs Villanova, lost by 20.
(they then did beat Oregon easily, but it played out like an anti-climatic undercard game).
Later, showdown at home to Virginia, lost by 20.

Last year, tourney kickoff in Puerto Rico vs Florida State, were losing by 30.

Another year, big NCAA showdown matchup with Michigan, lost by 30.
Same year, big A-10 showdown with Saint Louis, were losing by 30 (this was in conference of course).
Another year, hammered by Seton Hall.

Good wins vs Tennessee, Oregon, Northern Iowa, Virginia close last year, but man, in their massive showdown games, "statement" games recently, they've gotten rocked. The only recent comparable ooc game for any of the 10 of us was Creighton vs Baylor... VCU has had like 5 of those disasters... and at least the Jays could point to their blowout wins vs Cal, Nebraska and Villanova twice, among others like vs PC.

I remember the ACC matchups, because I want VCU to blow out every ACC opponent... that's why the FSU and Virginia blowouts stick in my head... it gives cover to the ACC, who can conveniently point to a blowout win vs VCU to give their overrated teams credibility.

Really, the thing to remember about VCU is that, other than that one stretch where they got hot for two weeks, caught lightning in a bottle, and made it to the Final Four...VCU has NEVER, EVER, NOT EVEN ONCE made it past the first weekend of the tournament IN PROGRAM HISTORY.

Here's a list of some schools that have made AT LEAST as many Sweet 16s as VCU has since the Rams started their program in 1973-74. For brevity's sake, I've only listed schools who did so in the past 10 years, and who would be theoretically within the Big East's geographic footprint. So if anyone wants to add VCU, these schools should also be given consideration.

Alabama-Birmingham (2005)
Bradley (2006)
Cornell (2010)
Davidson (2008)
Dayton (2014)
Florida Gulf Coast (2013)
George Mason (2006)
LaSalle (2013)
Northern Iowa (2010)
Ohio University (2012)
Richmond (2011)
Southern Illinois (2007)
UW-Milwaukee (2005)
Valparaiso (1998)
Western Kentucky (2008)
Wichita State (2006, 2013)

This is the company VCU keeps. A one-off, flash-in-the-pan program that punched above its weight one year. No one should seriously be talking about VCU to the Big East, They're in the A-10 and that's right where they belong.

Agreed. They have 0% fit with the current membership. On that list alone, Bradley...LaSalle...Richmond...Valpo...Dayton...Cornell...Davidson all fit better. Not that Cornell would ever join, but the others would break their necks doing so. VCU=bad option. I would consider UMass before VCU if UConn ever comes around. VCU is the 3rd or lower public school in Virginia - similar to Ball State in Indiana or Western Kentucky in Kentucky. No good - that's MAC or CUSA level.

[R Jay]

Really, the thing to remember about VCU is that, other than that one stretch where they got hot for two weeks, caught lightning in a bottle, and made it to the Final Four...VCU has NEVER, EVER, NOT EVEN ONCE made it past the first weekend of the tournament IN PROGRAM HISTORY.

Here's a list of some schools that have made AT LEAST as many Sweet 16s as VCU has since the Rams started their program in 1973-74. For brevity's sake, I've only listed schools who did so in the past 10 years, and who would be theoretically within the Big East's geographic footprint. So if anyone wants to add VCU, these schools should also be given consideration.

Alabama-Birmingham (2005)
Bradley (2006)
Cornell (2010)
Davidson (2008)
Dayton (2014)
Florida Gulf Coast (2013)
George Mason (2006)
LaSalle (2013)
Northern Iowa (2010)
Ohio University (2012)
Richmond (2011)
Southern Illinois (2007)
UW-Milwaukee (2005)
Valparaiso (1998)
Western Kentucky (2008)
Wichita State (2006, 2013)

This is the company VCU keeps. A one-off, flash-in-the-pan program that punched above its weight one year. No one should seriously be talking about VCU to the Big East, They're in the A-10 and that's right where they belong.

[billyjack]

One comment on VCU...
Fun team and all, but from memory here, it seems like recently in any "showdown" non-conference "statement" games that VCU has had with great opponents, they get hammered.

Off the top of my head:
This year, tourney kickoff vs Villanova, lost by 20.
(they then did beat Oregon easily, but it played out like an anti-climatic undercard game).
Later, showdown at home to Virginia, lost by 20.

Last year, tourney kickoff in Puerto Rico vs Florida State, were losing by 30.

Another year, big NCAA showdown matchup with Michigan, lost by 30.
Same year, big A-10 showdown with Saint Louis, were losing by 30 (this was in conference of course).
Another year, hammered by Seton Hall.

Good wins vs Tennessee, Oregon, Northern Iowa, Virginia close last year, but man, in their massive showdown games, "statement" games recently, they've gotten rocked. The only recent comparable ooc game for any of the 10 of us was Creighton vs Baylor... VCU has had like 5 of those disasters... and at least the Jays could point to their blowout wins vs Cal, Nebraska and Villanova twice, among others like vs PC.

I remember the ACC matchups, because I want VCU to blow out every ACC opponent... that's why the FSU and Virginia blowouts stick in my head... it gives cover to the ACC, who can conveniently point to a blowout win vs VCU to give their overrated teams credibility.

Really, the thing to remember about VCU is that, other than that one stretch where they got hot for two weeks, caught lightning in a bottle, and made it to the Final Four...VCU has NEVER, EVER, NOT EVEN ONCE made it past the first weekend of the tournament IN PROGRAM HISTORY.

Here's a list of some schools that have made AT LEAST as many Sweet 16s as VCU has since the Rams started their program in 1973-74. For brevity's sake, I've only listed schools who did so in the past 10 years, and who would be theoretically within the Big East's geographic footprint. So if anyone wants to add VCU, these schools should also be given consideration.

Alabama-Birmingham (2005)
Bradley (2006)
Cornell (2010)
Davidson (2008)
Dayton (2014)
Florida Gulf Coast (2013)
George Mason (2006)
LaSalle (2013)
Northern Iowa (2010)
Ohio University (2012)
Richmond (2011)
Southern Illinois (2007)
UW-Milwaukee (2005)
Valparaiso (1998)
Western Kentucky (2008)
Wichita State (2006, 2013)

This is the company VCU keeps. A one-off, flash-in-the-pan program that punched above its weight one year. No one should seriously be talking about VCU to the Big East, They're in the A-10 and that's right where they belong.

They do have good wins, and they have been ranked, but always remember on this site when you are critical of VCU in any way...
You must "beware the wrath of Gru...!"

[Bill Marsh]

One comment on VCU...
Fun team and all, but from memory here, it seems like recently in any "showdown" non-conference "statement" games that VCU has had with great opponents, they get hammered.

Off the top of my head:
This year, tourney kickoff vs Villanova, lost by 20.
(they then did beat Oregon easily, but it played out like an anti-climatic undercard game).
Later, showdown at home to Virginia, lost by 20.

Last year, tourney kickoff in Puerto Rico vs Florida State, were losing by 30.

Another year, big NCAA showdown matchup with Michigan, lost by 30.
Same year, big A-10 showdown with Saint Louis, were losing by 30 (this was in conference of course).
Another year, hammered by Seton Hall.

Good wins vs Tennessee, Oregon, Northern Iowa, Virginia close last year, but man, in their massive showdown games, "statement" games recently, they've gotten rocked. The only recent comparable ooc game for any of the 10 of us was Creighton vs Baylor... VCU has had like 5 of those disasters... and at least the Jays could point to their blowout wins vs Cal, Nebraska and Villanova twice, among others like vs PC.

I remember the ACC matchups, because I want VCU to blow out every ACC opponent... that's why the FSU and Virginia blowouts stick in my head... it gives cover to the ACC, who can conveniently point to a blowout win vs VCU to give their overrated teams credibility.

Really, the thing to remember about VCU is that, other than that one stretch where they got hot for two weeks, caught lightning in a bottle, and made it to the Final Four...VCU has NEVER, EVER, NOT EVEN ONCE made it past the first weekend of the tournament IN PROGRAM HISTORY.

Here's a list of some schools that have made AT LEAST as many Sweet 16s as VCU has since the Rams started their program in 1973-74. For brevity's sake, I've only listed schools who did so in the past 10 years, and who would be theoretically within the Big East's geographic footprint. So if anyone wants to add VCU, these schools should also be given consideration.

Alabama-Birmingham (2005)
Bradley (2006)
Cornell (2010)
Davidson (2008)
Dayton (2014)
Florida Gulf Coast (2013)
George Mason (2006)
LaSalle (2013)
Northern Iowa (2010)
Ohio University (2012)
Richmond (2011)
Southern Illinois (2007)
UW-Milwaukee (2005)
Valparaiso (1998)
Western Kentucky (2008)
Wichita State (2006, 2013)

This is the company VCU keeps. A one-off, flash-in-the-pan program that punched above its weight one year. No one should seriously be talking about VCU to the Big East, They're in the A-10 and that's right where they belong.

I guess you can spin it any way you want. What all the schools on your list have in common is that none of them have made it to a Final Four in that same period.

What VCU you accomplished in 2011 is really hard to do and incredibly rare for a mid major. Treating it so lightly and comparing them to schools that have been to a single Sweet 16 is incomprehensible to me. Mid majors have a ceiling on the level of talent they can attract and they're taking on teams loaded with McDonald's All Americans in the tournament. To do what they've done with that level of talent is a really significant achievement.

Here are some other facts with regard to VCU:

1. Under 3 different coaches they have built a powerhouse for over a decade now, going to 7 tournaments in 11 years.

2. They have averaged 25 wins a year during those same 11 years. That's consistency.

3. In 2007, they beat perennial national power Duke, loaded with McD's AA's, in the NCAA tournament. In 2012, they beat the same Wichita State team that went on to the Final Four the following season. WSU was ranked #16 at the time. Big wins in the tournament are big wins regardless of the round in which they occur. VCU was not a one year wonder in the tournament.

I don't know why all the hate for VCU, but to deny what they've built there as a mid major boggles the mind. It would be like disparaging Gonzaga because they haven't been able to get past the Sweet 16 since 2000. Like Gonzaga, they've built a mid major power at VCU that has gotten to the tournament in every one of the past 4 decades and has just been getting better and better.

Moreover using only the tournament as the criterion for judging a team is to ignore everything else they've done in the rest of the season. Should we start putting all of the Big East schools under the same lens to which you're subjecting VCU? How would Creighton fare by that same standard? I don't mean to disparage Creighton, but we could go down the list of Big East schools and find fault with all of us. Like VCU, Creighton has had great regular season success for a long time now. To nitpick a school's tournament record and to use it to nullify everything else they've done is a glass is 10% empty approach rather than 90% full.

[notkirkcameron]

I guess you can spin it any way you want. What all the schools on your list have in common is that none of them have made it to a Final Four in that same period.

Well....and Wichita State... but let's not let facts get in the way of a good narrative.

What VCU accomplished in 2011 is really hard to do and incredibly rare for a mid major. Treating it so lightly and comparing them to schools that have been to a single Sweet 16 is incomprehensible to me.

Yea, it would be incomprehensible to compare VCU to....VCU.

[stever20]

What VCU accomplished in 2011 is really hard to do and incredibly rare for a mid major. Treating it so lightly and comparing them to schools that have been to a single Sweet 16 is incomprehensible to me.

Yea, it would be incomprehensible to compare VCU to....VCU.

Going to a final 4 is worth a whole hell of a lot more than just a single sweet 16. So You can't just compare VCU to those single sweet 16 schools because they just aren't the same.

And like Bill said- it's just amazing why all the hate for VCU.

[R Jay]

Since when has realistic criticism been hate?

[stever20]

Since when has realistic criticism been hate?

If Creighton was getting the same realm of scrutiny as VCU, they never would have gotten invited.

Bottom line- VCU not being in the Big East has NOTHING to do with basketball. Everything to do with a Litmus test. Period.

[R Jay]

Since when has realistic criticism been hate?

If Creighton was getting the same realm of scrutiny as VCU, they never would have gotten invited.

Bottom line- VCU not being in the Big East has NOTHING to do with basketball. Everything to do with a Litmus test. Period.

Again, deciding whether a potential expansion school is an institutional fit has nothing to do with "hating".