Tues 1/14 BE Game Thread (2 Games).

[BillikensWin]

Where are all the threads about the fears about Butler not being able to keep the program at a high level? This has been brought up adnauseam the last three weeks when it comes to CU but not them. Theyre 0-5, lost their messiah of a coach and just got boat raced, but let's talk about the fear of us crashing.

Not coincidentally, this all popped up when people were forced to abandon the 'Its the BE and not the MVC, so theyre bound to struggle some no matter who they have' mantra, while barely acknowledging when we point out that we didnt just start excelling. This is at best an argument for another day and at worst jealousy tinged. What happens if we go to the F4 and land a huge class in 15 and don't fall off much at all? How about that possibility?

Worry about yourselves. Other than Nova, right now everyone in this league has their own minuses to sweat.

Creighton shouldn't have to keep apologizing for playing well. Seems that has happened a lot. Creighton fans and their team shouldn't be getting the questions.

Butler should.

[OutlawWales]

Wow.

I have to say that until about the last week or so I have really, really enjoyed this conference message board. I absolutely knew that the "all love one another and get along and prop each other up" stuff wouldn't be nearly as high once conference play started. What I really didn't expect, though, was to come here when the Jays -- as one of the three new teams and, according to many posters here earlier in the year, the one new team making the "biggest" leap up into the BIG EAST -- are playing well, representing the conference fantastically, getting the conference talked about nationally, and keeping at least some of the discussion about the BIG EAST just being a glorified mid major because of so many other teams' performances, and find that every single thread mentioning Creighton is pretty much full of dismissive assertions about how bad we'll be in the very near future.

It's a real shame if this place is going to devolve into somewhere where fans basically feel the need to just fill every thread with insults about some of the programs who are performing well. To have fans of schools like Butler big-timing the Jays, to have fans of schools who have put dog-crap on the floor consistently for years even with all of the high and mighty benefits of playing in the BIG EAST and being in NEW YORK CITY suggesting that Creighton has really never had any kind of success at all because they weren't already in this conference and this year is really all because of one guy, etc., is really frustrating. Heck, even having Georgetown fans trashing Creighton this year is a little hard to take -- yeah, historical success on the big stage is great, but the last several years for that team have resulted in pretty impressive collapses in the postseason.

It's a shame you can't just watch a game and actually appreciate what is going on right now without constantly having to attack (or defend, depending on your side) what will happen next year or in five years, when nobody has any clue what will happen. It's funny to me when people expect to "know" how Creighton will fare without Doug, or five years from now, or whatever -- when most of those same people were probabaly predicting about 6 months ago that Marquette, Georgetown, and SJU would be near the top of the conference this year.

It's still early. A lot can change/happen. I will be nervous about every single game Creighton plays. I respect the potential of every single team in this league to beat anyone else on any given night. What I absolutely don't feel is a need to actually go out and post on every SJU game thread, or Butler thread, or any other game thread specifically to predict doom and gloom in the future. I'll point out the hypocrisy in some of those posts to respond to attacks on Creighton, but I don't think you've seen any Creighton fan being the first in any of those conversations to denigrate anyone. If that's the way this message board is headed, then I guess it was great for half a season.

I love the BIG EAST. I love seeing all of those top teams on tv nightly, and coming to Omaha. I am absolutely loving the ride so far. I won't apologize for any of it.

[billyfa]

... snipped ...

But that's just part of the charm of the NYC area. The Boss George Steinbrenner on the Yanks...that's what NY is. Brash, blunt, and about being #1. That's the very identity of the area...gritty, the biggest stage, biggest city in America, the hustle and bustle, etc. We argued to make the spire on the WTC a bit taller just so we could be called the city with the tallest building in America. That's what we are...love it or hate it. It's just in the blood I don't know. Yes the prices are outrageous, but doesn't that tell you something? People are willing to pay $2,000 for an apartment the size of most kitchens in the suburbs or $800k just to live in a ranch 45 minutes outside NYC for the proximity. It has a draw to it. Our skyline is the most famous in the world and if you win here you are an instant legend. I only live 50 miles from Manhattan, but I still get goosebumps on the train the second the skyline appears in the distance. Even driving 30 minutes away you can see the WTC and Empire State Building clear as day from 25-30 miles out...it's amazing. Just knowing the history, all the famous people, all the success, the big stage, the culture, and just the brand of the city...it's very impressive. That's why so many songs are written about NYC and not other cities. We are just a loud, straight-talking, cocky group of people...but living in or in the shadows of the greatest city in America does that to you. So I agree with you that there are lots of cocky people. Here on LI your coolness factor is based on your proximity to NYC. I know it may sound ridiculous but it's true. It's hard to explain but that's just how this area is. It's very annoying to have bad teams in that kind of atmosphere with the negative media and all, but when you succeed here, nowhere else can match that.

Ugh. This is the exact same attitude that I found in too many people from NYC while at Villanova. I never understood it but I am not from NYC and have never lived there. I've been to NYC a bunch of times and have a lot of friends in the area but I never have gotten the appeal of NYC and why people from NYC feel the need to tell you how great NYC is and why it is infinitely better than everywhere else on the planet.

I travel a fair amount for work and have been fortunate enough to visit quite a few of the major US cities plus a lot of international ones too: Washington DC (I grew up in northern VA), Philly, Chicago, Dallas, Boston, Houston, Denver, Phoenix, LA, San Francisco, San Jose, San Diego, Portland, London, Paris, Munich, Brussels, Stockholm (by far my favorite city in Europe), Copenhagen, Tokyo, Sydney, Toronto, and others I am sure I have forgotten. About the only cities I'd prefer to spend time in less than NYC are LA and Houston.

For me, Paris and NYC are similar - not very welcoming to people who aren't local and way overrated from a visitor's perspective. I'm sure others disagree but that is my take and I've been to each more than half a dozen times, NYC probably more.

Please don't judge any St. John's fan by Lavinwood. None of us are like him. I guarantee you he posts here, because he is blocked on every other St. John's Board. I think the older Big East school's fans can confirm that we aren't annoying (especially compared to CUSE, UCONN, etc. fans) and are actually somewhat reserved (to a fault - but more so because we have been beaten down for a decade). Hopefully the new comer fans reserve judgment until the BET. Hopefully more positive feedback can be communicated on here after the BET.

I love this league and the schools that were added. Nothing better than a true round robin. Hopefully St. John's can get it back together.

[billyfa]

The thing I don't think Creighton fans realize is that guys like McDermott are once in a program players. We had Mullin who won the Wooden Award, led SJ to a Final Four, is regarded as possibly the greatest or among the greatest pure shooters ever, NBA HOF, Dream Team gold medal winner with team USA playing alongside Jordan, etc. Everyone has that one...then they leave and it becomes a fond memory. I think Creighton can still get good players but they will never have another McDermott.

It's very important to realize that McDermott is the rare exception not the rule. He was a 2 star recruit. How often do 2 star recruits become Wooden Award winners? How often do they become the best player in your history? He may very well be the only one ever. And how many times does a player like that stay all 4 years? In this day in age, VERY rarely. His father is the head coach...if the coach was some random guy he would have left after 2 years. Your recruits will not be the son of your coach going forward. So if you are lucky enough to find a gem, they will promptly leave after 1 year or 2 at most. I don't think it's going too far to be concerned what Creighton will be with no McDermott or even Gibbs going forward. You can't come from the MVC to the Big East acting like a 5 star general with tons of medals and scars from war without earning it. In the MVC that's what Creighton was, but you need to understand you are now in a conference with teams who have made 25+ tournament appearances with Final Four's, Elite 8's, Sweet Sixteens, and championships on their resume. This is a different beast. Also remember you are playing with probably your best team you will have while SJ, SHU, Butler, and Marquette are either rebuilding or in very down years. That won't be the case for long. Prove that you guys are more than a 4 year Wooden player and you can reload year after year and make top 25 appearances still, and no one will question you. We WANT you guys to by the way...it's good for the conference so don't take it personally.

Xavier had the same questions but they earned it the old fashioned way...by reloading year after year, almost always being ranked, almost always going deep in the tourney, and consistently scheduling and beating big time teams. And this has nothing to do with sour grapes about SJ doing terrible by the way. I know you guys want us to do well just like I want you guys to do well unless we play each other. Butler gets a slight pass because we still don't know what the real effect Stevens leaving will have. They still went to back to back national championship games and lost a heartbreaker to Kansas. Obviously there are still questions with them rebounding from their coaching loss, but they also haven't been the type of program to rely on 1 player so much like McDermott.

Lavinwood, no disrespect but St Johns fans shouldnt lecture anyone about being relevant in their conference. This isnt the 1980's anymore. When I think of St Johns, I think of Chris Mullins, Lou Carnesecca, feathered hair, IROC Camaros, Pacman and Porky's movies.
When I see St Johns this year, I see a team on paper that looks very similar to San Diego St. One team is in the top 10, the other is under-acheiving at the bottom of the BE. As long as the Johnnies are rolling Steve Lavin out there every year, I like the chances of everyone else in the league. St Johns has been the poster child for irrelevancy in the 2000's. Frankly, I am more concerned about St Johns that Creighton.

You are right to a point. We only have 9 tourney appearances since 1990 but I think you only have 10. You forgot about Lopez, Artest, Barkley, etc. era. Believe me, I am not downplaying Creighton, because obviously you are in a better position now than St. John's. The Big East was a monster conference and once you became a bottom feeder there you could not get out of the basement (DePaul, St. John's, Providence, Seton Hall, etc). Creighton is going to add a lot to the conference. I love the fan support and the fact that the Big East footprint is even stronger now in the Midwest. I hope St. John's can get back to relevance and play near the level Creighton is at right now.

[MUBoxer]

But that's just part of the charm of the NYC area. The Boss George Steinbrenner on the Yanks...that's what NY is. Brash, blunt, and about being #1. That's the very identity of the area...gritty, the biggest stage, biggest city in America, the hustle and bustle, etc. We argued to make the spire on the WTC a bit taller just so we could be called the city with the tallest building in America. That's what we are...love it or hate it. It's just in the blood I don't know. Yes the prices are outrageous, but doesn't that tell you something? People are willing to pay $2,000 for an apartment the size of most kitchens in the suburbs or $800k just to live in a ranch 45 minutes outside NYC for the proximity. It has a draw to it. Our skyline is the most famous in the world and if you win here you are an instant legend. I only live 50 miles from Manhattan, but I still get goosebumps on the train the second the skyline appears in the distance. Even driving 30 minutes away you can see the WTC and Empire State Building clear as day from 25-30 miles out...it's amazing. Just knowing the history, all the famous people, all the success, the big stage, the culture, and just the brand of the city...it's very impressive. That's why so many songs are written about NYC and not other cities. We are just a loud, straight-talking, cocky group of people...but living in or in the shadows of the greatest city in America does that to you. So I agree with you that there are lots of cocky people. Here on LI your coolness factor is based on your proximity to NYC. I know it may sound ridiculous but it's true. It's hard to explain but that's just how this area is. It's very annoying to have bad teams in that kind of atmosphere with the negative media and all, but when you succeed here, nowhere else can match that.

First: NYC does not have the greatest skyline in the USA. Chicago has been repeatedly voted over NYC for visual aesthetics. You want the largest in the states you got it but you don't have the best. As far as driving 30min out and seeing the Empire state building do you think you can't do that in Chi with the John Hancock or Sears Tower (It's not the willis tower!). Next, in Chicago you can go to most games and know your team has a chance to win this year (Hawks, Bulls) while the in NYC you go to a Rangers or Knicks game and just look at Madison Square Garden and say "we're awesome because we have this place!" I'm not arguing the other cities compare to NYC or Chi or even Phili (though I haven't been there) but NYC isn't this super world you make it out to be. Chi pizza > NY Pizza, Chi dogs > Papya King/Gray's papya, Bulls>Knicks, Hawks>Rangers. The bottom line is NYC people don't see anything beyond NYC other people actually realize there are big cities out there, that's why How I Met Your Mother is always making fun of NYC people in the regard.

[billyfa]

But that's just part of the charm of the NYC area. The Boss George Steinbrenner on the Yanks...that's what NY is. Brash, blunt, and about being #1. That's the very identity of the area...gritty, the biggest stage, biggest city in America, the hustle and bustle, etc. We argued to make the spire on the WTC a bit taller just so we could be called the city with the tallest building in America. That's what we are...love it or hate it. It's just in the blood I don't know. Yes the prices are outrageous, but doesn't that tell you something? People are willing to pay $2,000 for an apartment the size of most kitchens in the suburbs or $800k just to live in a ranch 45 minutes outside NYC for the proximity. It has a draw to it. Our skyline is the most famous in the world and if you win here you are an instant legend. I only live 50 miles from Manhattan, but I still get goosebumps on the train the second the skyline appears in the distance. Even driving 30 minutes away you can see the WTC and Empire State Building clear as day from 25-30 miles out...it's amazing. Just knowing the history, all the famous people, all the success, the big stage, the culture, and just the brand of the city...it's very impressive. That's why so many songs are written about NYC and not other cities. We are just a loud, straight-talking, cocky group of people...but living in or in the shadows of the greatest city in America does that to you. So I agree with you that there are lots of cocky people. Here on LI your coolness factor is based on your proximity to NYC. I know it may sound ridiculous but it's true. It's hard to explain but that's just how this area is. It's very annoying to have bad teams in that kind of atmosphere with the negative media and all, but when you succeed here, nowhere else can match that.

First: NYC does not have the greatest skyline in the USA. Chicago has been repeatedly voted over NYC for visual aesthetics. You want the largest in the states you got it but you don't have the best. As far as driving 30min out and seeing the Empire state building do you think you can't do that in Chi with the John Hancock or Sears Tower (It's not the willis tower!). Next, in Chicago you can go to most games and know your team has a chance to win this year (Hawks, Bulls) while the in NYC you go to a Rangers or Knicks game and just look at Madison Square Garden and say "we're awesome because we have this place!" I'm not arguing the other cities compare to NYC or Chi or even Phili (though I haven't been there) but NYC isn't this super world you make it out to be. Chi pizza > NY Pizza, Chi dogs > Papya King/Gray's papya, Bulls>Knicks, Hawks>Rangers. The bottom line is NYC people don't see anything beyond NYC other people actually realize there are big cities out there, that's why How I Met Your Mother is always making fun of NYC people in the regard.

Lavinwood is dragging you down. Re-read your post. You sound like a Lavinwood from the Midwest now - Ha!

[billyjack]

If we're nice to Creighton fans, maybe they'll decide not to beat us by 30.

[ivet]

Lavinwood is dragging you down. Re-read your post. You sound like a Lavinwood from the Midwest now - Ha!

Let them be, they are comparing cities instead of programs. Chicago people are a lot nicer too.

[Vill]

Outlaw: don't let a sour grape or two ruin the whole bunch. Most folks are pro-BE right behind the support they give their team. I'm really looking forward to see you guys and McDermott on Monday night.

[MUBoxer]

Lavinwood is dragging you down. Re-read your post. You sound like a Lavinwood from the Midwest now - Ha!

My God your right! Gotta ignore him.