The Ball talks Big East basketball

[Bill Marsh]

First of all, MSG gets it's money from the tourney up front. The Big East rents the Garden for the Big East Tourny. Attendance does not affect the Garden at all except for possibly concessions. The Big East keeps it's ticket revenue. If it doesn't sell out, the conference loses that money, not the Garden.

However, MSG has the right to opt out of the contract if certain unspecified benchmarks are not met by The Big East. While the details have not been publicly released, it's not hard to guess what those benchmarks might be. The fact that ticket sales were down 11% in 2014 from 2013 has to be of concern. With ticket sales being boosted by all the publicity surrounding the creation of the new version of the BE in 2013-14, ticket sales could actually fall further this year. There has to be concern within The Big East over that.

The New York Post reported last season that the "benchmarks" that must be met in the MSG contract deal only with membership. The Garden gets an out if membership changes and certain programs leave. Has nothing to do with sell-outs. Also, the Garden has already said they want a permanent tenant for the week of the Big East tourney. They are not interested in being a part of a rotation where the week is empty every other year or more frequently. The ACC is not coming to NYC every year. The Big Ten is not coming to NYC every year. We have 12 more tourneys scheduled for the Garden - we will be fine and until stay there as long as the league wants to do so.

True, but could a scenario be envisioned in which the ACC and Big Ten alternate their tournaments each year? That would keep the Garden full every year during tournament week.

The ACC made it it's mission to destroy the old Big East. I can see them not resting until they have also removed the threat of the new Big East as a contender for basketball prominence on the East Coast. For that reason, I think that UConn to the ACC is not dead - especially with the loss of Maryland and the movement of the B1G into the Northeast corridor. UConn has always turned out its fan base for games at MSG just as they did for last year's NCAA tournament games there. They would be a major asset to any conference that wants to stage a tournament in NYC, which both the ACC and the B1G obviously do.

[Bill Marsh]

Imagine this conversation:

"Hey MSG, gr8 news, we just added Dayton. It will cost us $4 mill per yr, but it guarantees 500 more ticket sales to the big east tourney and a minimal ratings boost!"

.... And that is why that is an improper talking point.

Nice try, Ball.

I'd expect Dayton's fan base to respond in just as Creighton's similarly rabid fan base did, which was to buy up 2,500 tickets for the tournament.

Face value of tickets last year ranged $80 (first day) - $180 per session. That's about $400 per ticket for 3 sessions. With 2,500 Dayton fans, that produces new revenue of about $1 million at the tournament alone. More teams means more inventory for Fox,so I would expect negotiations which would increase TV payouts as well to make up the additional $300,000 per member. In addition, more teams in the conference increases the likelihood of more teams in the NCAA tournament. If the conference got just 1 more team in the tournament per year, that would increase revenue by $1.6 million for last year's tournament shares. That's just for getting to the tournament! If that extra bid turns into an extra win or two occasionally, the revenue goes up proportionally. Between increased tournament revenue and increased NCAA tournament dollars, it wouldn't take much from those 2 sources alone to make up the '4 million.

Even at a loss, it would be wise for the Big East to take the hit and move on. Before any other considerations, they must compete or be marginalized, a fate which would cost them a lot more in the long run. They must grow their product to be competitive.

[admin]

The "decade commitment" with the Garden comes with an opt out clause if the Big East doesn't meet certain benchmarks. It's not as simple as saying that we're set for the next 10 years.

But it's not just the financial ledger that's at issue. If The Big East wants to be in the same conversation as the P5, then the BE tournament must be considered a "big event".

The bigger issue is that many here feel (and I suspect many in the Big East office agree) that adding any schools that are truly mid-major programs (ie, SLU, Dayton) dilutes the overall product. It might help sell a few tickets, but there is an expense paid in perception.

[Piratefan]

Uconn is the only school worth adding provided that it grants media rights. For us old-timers, MSG was not always sold out when the old BE was 9 teams. It would be crazy to expand to sellout the Garden is crazy. It would be far more economical to give away 2000 tix.

[Bill Marsh]

The "decade commitment" with the Garden comes with an opt out clause if the Big East doesn't meet certain benchmarks. It's not as simple as saying that we're set for the next 10 years.

But it's not just the financial ledger that's at issue. If The Big East wants to be in the same conversation as the P5, then the BE tournament must be considered a "big event".

The bigger issue is that many here feel (and I suspect many in the Big East office agree) that adding any schools that are truly mid-majoe programs (ie, SLU, Dayton) dilutes the overall product. It might help sell a few tickets, but there is an expense paid in perception.

Agree, which is likely why they decided to go with 10 and defer decisions regarding further expansion for a few years. If Dayton continues to have success in the tournament,they'll go a long way toward removing the "mid major" stigma. Now that VCU is a regular in the top 25 and has the Final Four pedigree, it's hard to imagine the conference taking a hit if they were added.

Of course the conference has the other option of ignoring the geography and adding Gonzaga, which would do nothing other than to enhance their stature. If they were paired with BYU, there would be no one would be uttering the word "mid major".

[Bill Marsh]

First of all, MSG gets it's money from the tourney up front. The Big East rents the Garden for the Big East Tourny. Attendance does not affect the Garden at all except for possibly concessions. The Big East keeps it's ticket revenue. If it doesn't sell out, the conference loses that money, not the Garden.

However, MSG has the right to opt out of the contract if certain unspecified benchmarks are not met by The Big East. While the details have not been publicly released, it's not hard to guess what those benchmarks might be. The fact that ticket sales were down 11% in 2014 from 2013 has to be of concern. With ticket sales being boosted by all the publicity surrounding the creation of the new version of the BE in 2013-14, ticket sales could actually fall further this year. There has to be concern within The Big East over that.

The New York Post reported last season that the "benchmarks" that must be met in the MSG contract deal only with membership. The Garden gets an out if membership changes and certain programs leave. Has nothing to do with sell-outs. Also, the Garden has already said they want a permanent tenant for the week of the Big East tourney. They are not interested in being a part of a rotation where the week is empty every other year or more frequently. The ACC is not coming to NYC every year. The Big Ten is not coming to NYC every year. We have 12 more tourneys scheduled for the Garden - we will be fine and until stay there as long as the league wants to do so.

Not everyone agrees with Robbins on this point. Here was the take at VU Hoops back in May, 2013, at the time that Robbins made his report:

http://www.vuhoops.com/catholic-7-news- ... ve-forward

"What's agree don is that MSG can cancel and/or alter it's deal with the new Big East under certain circumstances. What those circumstances are, however, seems to depend on whose sources you trust most. In either case, it seems that a successful tournament is of utmost importance to both sides."

[R Jay]

"Bill, eat a snickers." "Why?" "Because you turn into stever when you're hungry." "Better?" "Better."

[gosports1]

UConn is not going to the ACC. They tried to sue BC when the Eagles left the Big East.

BC will pitch a fit if the ACC offers UConn a spot, and other schools will listen to them.

That stuff is almost a dozen years old at this point. Most of the people involved in that lawsuit are gone from the 2 universities. The 2 ADs have a longstanding relationship. I doubt that the lawsuit is a factor at all any more.

No doubt that BC would regard UConn as unwanted competition, but BC is only 1 vote and that's not enough to stop any decision. Let them throw a fit. It won't matter. The ACC almost took UConn last time. The decision to choose Louisville instead had nothing to do with a BC his say fit.

If i remember correctly, Pitt and Virginia Tech were also originally part of that lawsuit. Didnt seem to hurt them.
IMO the 'bad blood" between BC and UConn had more to so with Calhouns very public comments about never scheduling them again as long as he had any say in the matter

[TheBall]

I'd expect Dayton's fan base to respond in just as Creighton's similarly rabid fan base did, which was to buy up 2,500 tickets for the tournament.
.

I would not expect that result. Not at all. Dayton doesn't pack the barckay's for their current tournament.

Anyway, let's say we are in danger of losing msg (which I really do not think we are), dayton is not the answer to save it.

Jim delay said that big ten is looking to have 20% of its tournaments on the east coast, which is one in NYC and one in DC every decade. The acc is not going to commit to an annual event there. The threat is not as real as you perceive.

And we have an airtight contract for a decade. Let's see how it plays out a bit before trying to put band aides like dayton or umass on a problem that we are not sure even exists at this point.

[TheBall]

Not everyone agrees with Robbins on this point. Here was the take at VU Hoops back in May, 2013, at the time that Robbins made his report:

http://www.vuhoops.com/catholic-7-news- ... ve-forward

"What's agree don is that MSG can cancel and/or alter it's deal with the new Big East under certain circumstances. What those circumstances are, however, seems to depend on whose sources you trust most. In either case, it seems that a successful tournament is of utmost importance to both sides."

You are quoting Brian Ewart? He's a good kid and a good fan, but he has no more inside info than any other poster on this board.

The big east deal is airtight. We heard that when the acc went to the barlays, and when big ten had to set up a week early.

if we are averaging 12k for Friday and Saturday bet games in 2020, then I will start to worry. As of now, let's just watch our ten teams continue to improve their national branding and continue to improve their involvement with the conference tourney in March. That is really the best solution. Adding teams like dayton and umass is like trying to so build a dirt wall to stop a lava flow.