My Private/Parochial Conference Wish

[butlerguy03]

This conference isn't going to start it's own network, so media markets aren't going to be that important. As for recruiting, not 100%, but I don't believe Xavier has had a kid from Virginia since Richmond joined the A10 back in 2001. Better options than Richmond.

Who? For spreading a footprint, which is important for ratings points and the possibility of a Horizon League Network type model (not the Big Ten Network model), and overall appeal to prospective recruits, sponsors, coaches, etc. In my opinion, Richmond is slightly sexier than Dayton.

Other options?
Dayton - too close to Indy & Cincy, deserves a look
Bradley - Small market
Evansville - Small market
Valparaiso - too close to Chicago, very small market otherwise
Loyola - DePaul would have a fit
Belmont - Hmm...difficult to go up against SEC, but might deserve a look
Duquesne - Can't carry Pitt's or Penn State's jock strap
Detroit - Not sure the support is there for major-time basketball, bad money market
Davidson - Can't carry any bit of Carolina
Sienna - iffy market, good recent history

Wish-list if these schools were to be left behind by FBS schools in a 4x16 scenario:
Duke
Wake Forest
Temple

[xu5595]

This conference isn't going to start it's own network, so media markets aren't going to be that important. As for recruiting, not 100%, but I don't believe Xavier has had a kid from Virginia since Richmond joined the A10 back in 2001. Better options than Richmond.

Who? For spreading a footprint, which is important for ratings points and the possibility of a Horizon League Network type model (not the Big Ten Network model), and overall appeal to prospective recruits, sponsors, coaches, etc. In my opinion, Richmond is slightly sexier than Dayton.

Other options?
Dayton - too close to Indy & Cincy, deserves a look
Bradley - Small market
Evansville - Small market
Valparaiso - too close to Chicago, very small market otherwise
Loyola - DePaul would have a fit
Belmont - Hmm...difficult to go up against SEC, but might deserve a look
Duquesne - Can't carry Pitt's or Penn State's jock strap
Detroit - Not sure the support is there for major-time basketball, bad money market
Davidson - Can't carry any bit of Carolina
Sienna - iffy market, good recent history

Wish-list if these schools were to be left behind by FBS schools in a 4x16 scenario:
Duke
Wake Forest
Temple

Ratings are based on the amount eyeballs watching. Just spreading the footprint won't do that. VCU or Dayton would be better options.

[Edrick]

Have we really gotten to the stage where low majors and football schools are being talked about?

I know it's boring but none of those teams are being considered. There's really nothing left to discuss, we already know the teams. We're just waiting for dollars and timing

[Xudash]

I think VCU beats out Richmond in basketball tradition, support and facilities. Richmond has the edge when it comes to academics and being a private institution.

I'm not sure about the edge in facilities going to VCU.

Richmond's place is bigger and they're about to put more money into it.

It's a moot point, as I doubt any public schools will make the cut.

[xman]

I think Xavier would get Dayton in before they'd endorse Richmond.

[Boyee]

I think having 12 schools is ideal and I would add Saint Louis as #11 and #12 is tricky Dayton would make sense as an arch rival of Xavier, but that would give the league 5 East schools and 7 Midwest schools. Richmond is in Richmond, VA and Washington, D.C. team Georgetown covers this market. Duquesne would be good for the Pittsburgh market but their program has been down as have Siena and Canisius's programs. Niagara is also down lately. Iona in upstate NY could be a good add. Ultimately I think unless they can get Notre Dame for non-football sports, Dayton is #12, unless any of the aforementioned schools start winning again.

[NJRedman]

I think having 12 schools is ideal and I would add Saint Louis as #11 and #12 is tricky Dayton would make sense as an arch rival of Xavier, but that would give the league 5 East schools and 7 Midwest schools. Richmond is in Richmond, VA and Washington, D.C. team Georgetown covers this market. Duquesne would be good for the Pittsburgh market but their program has been down as have Siena and Canisius's programs. Niagara is also down lately. Iona in upstate NY could be a good add. Ultimately I think unless they can get Notre Dame for non-football sports, Dayton is #12, unless any of the aforementioned schools start winning again.

Did we need to rehash a 18 month old thread to have this conversation again?

[TheHall]

I think having 12 schools is ideal and I would add Saint Louis as #11 and #12 is tricky Dayton would make sense as an arch rival of Xavier, but that would give the league 5 East schools and 7 Midwest schools. Richmond is in Richmond, VA and Washington, D.C. team Georgetown covers this market. Duquesne would be good for the Pittsburgh market but their program has been down as have Siena and Canisius's programs. Niagara is also down lately. Iona in upstate NY could be a good add. Ultimately I think unless they can get Notre Dame for non-football sports, Dayton is #12, unless any of the aforementioned schools start winning again.

What an obscure thread to use to dredge this subject back up again. There's got to be at least a half-dozen straight forward "who should we add" threads you could have read through that I'm sure speak to everything you mentioned in your post.

[muskienick]

Xavier was in the A-10 for almost 20 years. In the A-10 during that time were URI, UMass, Charlotte, Virginia Tech and semi-public Temple. Although public institutions, their membership in that basketball-driven league was never an issue. Why should being public be a disqualifying factor for membership in the Big East? Even the Big East has some history of having public members. Their mistake was turning a highly successful League that was built on quality basketball into a mishmash of basketball and football schools where football eventually spoiled everything.

Therefore, the ticket to success for the Big East when expansion is being seriously considered is to concentrate on admitting schools that have:
1) absolutely no ambition to build a top 70-type D-1 football program
2) are committed to elevating their basketball program to the highest level possible
3) have a media market that neither overlaps nor duplicates the media market of a current member
4) occupy a metropolitan area conducive to easy travel and big-city amenities
5) already have a recent history of basketball excellence on the floor
6) already have a recent history of basketball excellence in the stands.

Since Notre Dame has seemingly found its niche, let's not even consider the Irish. The only thing that could affect that niche would be if ND stands fast in its Football independence and subsequently is left out of the 4 x 16 plan so often conjectured recently. (On the other hand, if that were to happen, ND would likely be welcomed to the Big East with open arms!)

If air travel has sufficiently shrunk the U.S such that geography is no longer a factor in the decision, then Gonzaga is the natural first choice. However, since many people feel that the negatives of a Washington State-based member of the big East far outweigh the positives, let us for the time being forget the Zags.

That would seem to leave the following candidates, each of which are lacking somewhat in one or more of the 6 criteria mentioned above:
a) Richmond b) Saint Louis c) Dayton 4) VCU 5) Wichita State

Here's how I would rank those candidates for each criterion (above): (1 = lowest to 5 = highest)
Richmond: 1) 1 2) 1 3) 5 4) 3 5) 1 6) 1 Total = 12 points
St. Louis: 1) 5 2) 2 3) 5 4) 5 5) 3 6) 3 Total = 23 points
Dayton: 1) 2 2) 3 3) 3 4) 2 5) 2 6) 5 Total = 17 points
VCU: 1) 5 2) 5 3) 5 4) 3 5) 5 6) 2 Total = 25 points
Wichita: 1) 5 2) 4 3) 4 4) 1 5) 4 6) 4 Total = 22 points

My Ranking Rationales:
Criterion 1: UD and Richmond both have FB teams at the Division 1 FCS level but I gave UD an extra point since the Flyers' League (Pioneer) isn't as close to FBS standards from top to bottom as Richmond's league, the Colonial. That, plus their better stadium size cause them to be a greater threat to go FBS. The other three either have no football or only club football.
Criterion 2: I based this totally on my perception of how they market their program, discard and select coaches, and achieve actual success.
Criterion 3: Only UD would have a media market that overlaps a current member of the Big East. But since Dayton does not duplicate that market, I gave UD 3 points instead of just one. I gave Wichita only 4 points since it would occupy the smallest media market of the four that don't share one.
Criterion 4: Was determined by using Wikipedia.
Criterion 5: I wanted to rank UD higher because of this year's showing in the NCAA Tourney, but the Flyers simply have been nothing better than mediocre more often than not in the A-10's final standings. SLU has been more consistently better in that regard over the recent past. VCU and Wichita were "no-brainers" for top points in this category.
Criterion 6: I took this ranking from the schools' own listed home attendance figures. UD is consistently on top here with Wichita a strong second. SLU has stepped it up recently. VCU probably deserves at least one additional point for having to sell SRO tickets for every home game. The Rams might want to consider enlarging their home arena if they hope to get into the Big East. That, or trade arenas with the less attractive Richmond Spiders.

Not surprisingly, VCU and SLU would be my two choices for entry into an expanded Big East for all those reasons. I'm particularly pleased that WSU just missed the mark because the Shockers geography would have hurt the balance between East and Midwest if Divisions were preferred with expansion.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Although the conference is expanding any time soon (1-5 years?), I think everyone (including the schools) believe that Saint Louis will be #11 when the time comes to expand. #12 (or any number after that) is truly still up in the air.

The route the conference is taking (sitting and waiting) is the best route, IMO. The schools that are of interest for expansion aren't going to be picked up by anyone else - the only conference that would consider similar schools is the American, and they won't go down the football/basketball split again.

The wild card of the process isn't the conference or the member schools, but rather Fox. If Fox makes it worthwhile for everyone to add a school that isn't aligned by institution (VCU) or location (Gonzaga), then the selection process becomes a bit more clear.

If the decision had to be made today, I would say #11 would be Saint Louis (for all of the obvious reasons) and #12 would be Dayton (similar institution, recent basketball success, commitment towards elite basketball with extension with Archie, and, most importantly, the attendance/travel of fans). It may slightly move the footprint away from the East Coast/NYC, but the conference needs schools that are competitive and travel well.

Just my two cents.