Big East POY and other awards

[GumbyDamnit!]

I wouldn't have been upset by Holtman winning the award over Wright but you can easily make a case for JW. Nova won the league by FOUR games. They won 13 of their 16 league game wins by double digits. You guys saw how tough the league is/was this year. This is the #2 RPI league with 3 other teams in the top 25 RPI and 2 others in the top 50. That's a crazy stat considering how good some of these other teams are.

In the POY voting I'd be interested to know how the voting works. Is it a point system in which coaches vote for 1-2-3 and there are pt values for each or simply one coach, one vote? If the latter, I could see the following voting happening:

Arch - 3 votes
Dunn - 3 votes
Hilliard - 2
Henton - 2

I could see Arch getting votes from Lavin (who said he'd vote for him), McDermott (had a big game at Creighton) and Wojo (who played a lot like Arch). I would think that JW prob voted for Henton as he focused on stopping him in our games vs PC this year, and speaks very highly of him. And for those who say that Dunn's stats alone warrant the POY by himself, also must gloss over the # of TO's. I believe he led the nation in that dubious stat.

[milksteak]

In comparison:
1a. ARCIDIACONO: 13th in PPG, 21st+ in RPG, 7th in APG, 16th+ in SPG
1b. DUNN: 5th in PPG, 8th in RPG, 1st in APG, 1st in SPG

A sample of other players that finished behind ARCIDIACONO
2a. HENTON: 1st in PPG, 5th in RPG, 16th+ in APG 13th in SPG
2b. HARRISON: 3rd in PPG, 20th in RPG, 16th+ in APG, 13th in SPG
2c. POINTER: 9th in PPG, 4th in PPG, 13th in APG, 7th in SPG
2d. SMITH-RIVERA: 6th in PPG, 22nd+ in RPG, 12th in APG, 4th in SPG
2e. JONES: 11th in PPG, 17th in RPG, 9th in APG, 17th+ in SPG
2f. STAINBROOK: 19th in PPG, 7th in RPG, 15th in APG, 17th+ in SPG
2g. SMITH: 24th in PPG, 8th in RPG, 16th+ in APG, 13th in SPG
2h. >>>>>BARLOW<<<<<: 25th in PPG, 22nd+ in RPG, 10th in APG, 2nd in SPG

Alright, I'm done. That is all.

Still, this is a complete joke.

[GumbyDamnit!]

In comparison:
1a. ARCIDIACONO: 13th in PPG, 21st+ in RPG, 7th in APG, 16th+ in SPG
1b. DUNN: 5th in PPG, 8th in RPG, 1st in APG, 1st in SPG


Alright, I'm done. That is all.

Still, this is a complete joke.

Dunn turnovers = 122
Arch turnovers = 47

So how many points off those turnovers did the other teams score? Hmmmm.....

[ChestRockwell85]

Oh and Jay Wright wins Coach of the Year which is another head scratcher with what Holtman has done this season. Taking over last minute and making Butler a legit contender. I see a lot of folks on twitter really criticizing these choices for award winners. I'm with them, from Pointer to Arch to Wright this has been a really bad job by the coaches.

Seriously, don't talk. Jay Wright went 29-2 and DESTROYED the Big East and that is a head scratcher? Villanova arguably doesn't have a single pro on the team and they waltzed through the conference. This isn't Little League, not everybody is getting ice cream after the game. The award went to the coach who deserved it. Jay Wright gets his guys to play as a TEAM. It is F'ing pathetic how hard it is for some of you guys to recognize that.

PS- If Jay Wright had Lavin's roster LAST YEAR, you guys would have been a Sweet 16 team. TEAM.....TEAM.

[milksteak]

In comparison:
1a. ARCIDIACONO: 13th in PPG, 21st+ in RPG, 7th in APG, 16th+ in SPG
1b. DUNN: 5th in PPG, 8th in RPG, 1st in APG, 1st in SPG


Alright, I'm done. That is all.

Still, this is a complete joke.

Dunn turnovers = 122
Arch turnovers = 47

So how many points off those turnovers did the other teams score? Hmmmm.....

First off. Is a 1.9 assist:turnover ratio bad? I guess it's good you aren't a NBA scout (Arch's was 2.0, btw, since ball-handling is apparently your go-to argument).

Not to mention...Dude...He had a SCORELESS game in conference, and he failed to reach double-digits in points SIX TIMES (including the scoreless game). Do Big East Players of the Year do that on a regular basis? Are our standards as a conference really THAT low?

[mcnaug167]

In comparison:
1a. ARCIDIACONO: 13th in PPG, 21st+ in RPG, 7th in APG, 16th+ in SPG
1b. DUNN: 5th in PPG, 8th in RPG, 1st in APG, 1st in SPG


Alright, I'm done. That is all.

Still, this is a complete joke.

Dunn turnovers = 122
Arch turnovers = 47

So how many points off those turnovers did the other teams score? Hmmmm.....

Dunn has been consistently dominant on both sides of the ball, so this post comes off as petty. Do Nova fans think Arch was the best player on his team?

I have no issue with co-POYs, and agree to a certain extent that the unquestioned #1 team in the conference should be represented. There were 3 unanimous first teamers, so it's hard to make an argument outside of those three players. If it's a Nova player, it has to be Hilliard.

[GumbyDamnit!]

We all have our opinions but the 10 guys who watch the tape, and developed the game plans in order to beat these teams seem to think that Arch is pretty good/important. I would think they know a little but more than we do about what makes for a great player.

The kid shot over 40% from 3, TAKES CARE OF THE BALL like a PG should and absolutely led his team on both sides of the ball. He also led his team to 5 more league victories than Dunn or Henton. The problem with Nova is the that the team overshadows the individual. This team is about the team and not about who gets the points or the stats. Put Ochefu on just about any other team and he is probably a first team all BE player. On Nova? Hon Mention. And enough with the stats. Everyone loves the stats until they hear that Dunn leads the country in TO's. Why? Simple. He dominates the ball. I don't mean that in a negative way but a matter of fact way. He scores points, makes assists, and gets TO's because he has the ball in his hands for 25 secs of every possession. On Novas team Arch moves the ball where it needs to go for the team to be successful. Period.

Arch vs Dunn is like comparing Jones to Dunham on Butler. One helps them win by scoring the points and looking flashy while the other just plays within himself and does all the little things needed to win. I think Jones is more valuable than Dunham to Butler for the same reasons that I see Arch's importance to Nova. I know his style irritates fans of other teams but for us Nova fans who watch all the games we know how much of a flat out winner Arch is.

[R Jay]

Greg McDermott said this about Arch before last week's game:

“He’s the straw that stirs the drink,” McDermott said. “He does an unbelievable job of when one of his teammates gets it going, he makes sure that guy gets touches. When they’re struggling, he has the way of hitting a big basket to get them out of their rut.
“He’s so tenacious and tough defensively. He gets his hands on a lot of basketballs, and he’s always on the floor when the ball is loose. He does all those things that just add up to winning.”

http://www.omaha.com/creighton/cu-s-chatman-wildcats-play-a-little-like-we-did/article_e109b283-53e9-53b2-9ff2-4a12053471fb.html

And this after the game:
“I think he’s outstanding. I know they’ve got a lot of great players, but if you allow me to pick one guy off their team that’s the guy I’m picking,” McDermott said. “I just think he does so much to impact winning and he made a big time play in a critical situation and you have to tip your hat to him.”

http://whiteandbluereview.com/villanova-grinds-out-a-victory-in-slugfest-with-creighton/

[mcnaug167]

We all have our opinions but the 10 guys who watch the tape, and developed the game plans in order to beat these teams seem to think that Arch is pretty good/important. I would think they know a little but more than we do about what makes for a great player.

The kid shot over 40% from 3, TAKES CARE OF THE BALL like a PG should and absolutely led his team on both sides of the ball. He also led his team to 5 more league victories than Dunn or Henton. The problem with Nova is the that the team overshadows the individual. This team is about the team and not about who gets the points or the stats. Put Ochefu on just about any other team and he is probably a first team all BE player. On Nova? Hon Mention. And enough with the stats. Everyone loves the stats until they hear that Dunn leads the country in TO's. Why? Simple. He dominates the ball. I don't mean that in a negative way but a matter of fact way. He scores points, makes assists, and gets TO's because he has the ball in his hands for 25 secs of every possession. On Novas team Arch moves the ball where it needs to go for the team to be successful. Period.

Arch vs Dunn is like comparing Jones to Dunham on Butler. One helps them win by scoring the points and looking flashy while the other just plays within himself and does all the little things needed to win. I think Jones is more valuable than Dunham to Butler for the same reasons that I see Arch's importance to Nova. I know his style irritates fans of other teams but for us Nova fans who watch all the games we know how much of a flat out winner Arch is.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Arch is a very good player. I enjoy watching him and Nova play. But do you think he was Nova's best player this year? Were you surprised at the announcement today?

As for Dunn, the TOs are there. But did you see him play this year outside of twice vs. Nova? He dominates both sides of the ball like no one in this league. To me, looking at the TOs and dismissing his effect on the game is lazy.

Edit: I grew up a Nova fan, b/c my dad went there.

[MackNova]

I admit, I was a little surprised it was Arch over Hilliard. I thought it would be a race between Darrun and Dunn.

I'm fine with this. Dunn is a great player, I'm a huge fan. Arcidiacono is arguably the best player on the best team. Personally, I have no idea how to rank Villanova's best players. You can make a case for Arch, Hilliard, Pinkston, Ochefu, Hart, and even Ennis. Plus, Booth is 2nd in the league in effective field goal percentage (min. 400 minutes), only behind Ochefu.

I'm just glad Villanova got the respect it deserved. Having only 2 Villanova players on the 1st and 2nd All-Big East teams was ridiculous. You can make a case for Villanova putting its entire starting 5 in the 1st and 2nd teams. KenPom has 3 of the top 4 players in the league from Villanova, and I'd probably through Arch and Hart in the top 10, too (with Ennis barely falling outside of it).

You can't just look at per-game stats. Villanova's best players average fewer minutes than any other team's best players because we're so deep. And they all take numbers away from each other.

I don't want to take credit away from Dunn. Dunn deserved this award, too, he's a stud. The funny thing with Dunn and Arch, is both teams may get worse if they were traded for each other. Arch is a great fit for what Nova needs, Dunn is a great fit for what Providence needs.

That said, you can't completely leave out the turnovers. If we're going to point to the points, assists and steals as reasons why Dunn is a great player, you have to at least include the turnovers to be fair.