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[stever20]

Yes obviously less of a clog in the middle would help us, but as long as teams don't drop more than 2 OOC and pick up some quality wins they'll be fine. If Georgetown had gotten to 9-9 in conference they would have made the dance last year despite 3 OOC losses.

Looking at last year's standings for the teams that were 9-9 or 10-8:
Providence 10-8 got in
Xavier 10-8 got in
St. John's 10-8 didn't get in- but had no OOC wins of note
Marquette 9-9 didn't get in - had no OOC wins of note and like 5 OOC loses

So these standings would'n't be a death sentence like you proclaim. As long as teams have good OOC portions of the schedule 9-9 will not preclude them.

Providence only got in because they won the conference tourney. So 3/4 teams don't get in at large- and the 4th only got in the PIG as the next to last team in.

[stever20]

The AAC got 4 tournament bids- with much better seedings- with no one in the PIG, and really should have had a 5th(SMU should have been in over NC State).
Also really look at the comparison between AAC and Big East records last year
1- AAC 15-3 BE 16-2
2- AAC 15-3 BE 14-4
(same difference there)
3 AAC 12-6 BE 10-8
4 AAC 12-6 BE 10-8
5 AAC 12-6 BE 10-8
(huge differences there)
6 AAC 8-10 BE 9-9
7 AAC 5-13 BE 8-10
8 AAC 4-14 BE 6-12
9 AAC 4-14 BE 4-14
10 AAC 3-15 BE 3-15

So really only a huge difference at #7 and 8. Give me 3-5 better than 7 and 8 any time. if the Big East had the AAC standings- we would have gotten 5 teams in easy with no PIG teams. Parity is not a conferences friend.

The big east is in worse shape because there is more parity(which isn't a good thing in March) than the other conferences. Having your 6-8 being so close to the 1-5 makes for a fun conference season, but hurts in March.

I'm using a magazines projected records because it's darn close to what the final standings actually WERE last year. With Creighton falling, it's showing that impact.

[billyjack]

Yes obviously less of a clog in the middle would help us, but as long as teams don't drop more than 2 OOC and pick up some quality wins they'll be fine. If Georgetown had gotten to 9-9 in conference they would have made the dance last year despite 3 OOC losses.

Looking at last year's standings for the teams that were 9-9 or 10-8:
Providence 10-8 got in
Xavier 10-8 got in
St. John's 10-8 didn't get in- but had no OOC wins of note
Marquette 9-9 didn't get in - had no OOC wins of note and like 5 OOC loses

So these standings would'n't be a death sentence like you proclaim. As long as teams have good OOC portions of the schedule 9-9 will not preclude them.

Providence only got in because they won the conference tourney. So 3/4 teams don't get in at large- and the 4th only got in the PIG as the next to last team in.

NC State only got in because they beat Syracuse in the ACC Tourney.
Pitt only got in because they beat North Carolina in the ACC Tourney.

[stever20]

Yes obviously less of a clog in the middle would help us, but as long as teams don't drop more than 2 OOC and pick up some quality wins they'll be fine. If Georgetown had gotten to 9-9 in conference they would have made the dance last year despite 3 OOC losses.

Looking at last year's standings for the teams that were 9-9 or 10-8:
Providence 10-8 got in
Xavier 10-8 got in
St. John's 10-8 didn't get in- but had no OOC wins of note
Marquette 9-9 didn't get in - had no OOC wins of note and like 5 OOC loses

So these standings would'n't be a death sentence like you proclaim. As long as teams have good OOC portions of the schedule 9-9 will not preclude them.

Providence only got in because they won the conference tourney. So 3/4 teams don't get in at large- and the 4th only got in the PIG as the next to last team in.

NC State only got in because they beat Syracuse in the ACC Tourney.
Pitt only got in because they beat North Carolina in the ACC Tourney.

Pitt was in regardless- they were the #36 team. Might have gotten a bye because of that but they were in regardless.....

[Bill Marsh]

Yes obviously less of a clog in the middle would help us, but as long as teams don't drop more than 2 OOC and pick up some quality wins they'll be fine. If Georgetown had gotten to 9-9 in conference they would have made the dance last year despite 3 OOC losses.

Looking at last year's standings for the teams that were 9-9 or 10-8:
Providence 10-8 got in
Xavier 10-8 got in
St. John's 10-8 didn't get in- but had no OOC wins of note
Marquette 9-9 didn't get in - had no OOC wins of note and like 5 OOC loses

So these standings would'n't be a death sentence like you proclaim. As long as teams have good OOC portions of the schedule 9-9 will not preclude them.

Providence only got in because they won the conference tourney. So 3/4 teams don't get in at large- and the 4th only got in the PIG as the next to last team in.

Yes, Providence got in because they won games. If they didn't win those games, someone else like Georgetown or St. John's wins games and either of them probably gets in just by going to the finals. Fact is that 4 teams got in and all your hypothetical scenarios don't change that. I'm dealing with the real world.

SMU didn't get in because they lost in the first round of their tournament. Tournament games matter - just like all the rest of the games all season long. You can't just pretend that they didn't happen. One of the things that you ignore about a league with a lot of teams bunched up in the middles at 10-8, 9-9, and 8-10 is that it means that the league is incredibly well balanced, that their are going to be more upsets in the conference tournament because all the teams are good, and that an also-ran can easily rise up and win the conference tournament as Providence did last year. The regular season isn't done until the conference tournament is over and those games matter. They are often the difference maker for teams on the bubble.

[Bill Marsh]

The AAC got 4 tournament bids- with much better seedings- with no one in the PIG, and really should have had a 5th(SMU should have been in over NC State).
Also really look at the comparison between AAC and Big East records last year
1- AAC 15-3 BE 16-2
2- AAC 15-3 BE 14-4
(same difference there)
3 AAC 12-6 BE 10-8
4 AAC 12-6 BE 10-8
5 AAC 12-6 BE 10-8
(huge differences there)
6 AAC 8-10 BE 9-9
7 AAC 5-13 BE 8-10
8 AAC 4-14 BE 6-12
9 AAC 4-14 BE 4-14
10 AAC 3-15 BE 3-15

So really only a huge difference at #7 and 8. Give me 3-5 better than 7 and 8 any time. if the Big East had the AAC standings- we would have gotten 5 teams in easy with no PIG teams. Parity is not a conferences friend.

The big east is in worse shape because there is more parity(which isn't a good thing in March) than the other conferences. Having your 6-8 being so close to the 1-5 makes for a fun conference season, but hurts in March.

I'm using a magazines projected records because it's darn close to what the final standings actually WERE last year. With Creighton falling, it's showing that impact.

With all due respect, I can't agree with what you're saying here, Stever.

1. SMU did not get in. There are arguments every year about who should have gotten in and who shouldn't, In the real world SMU did NOT get in regardless of whether you think they should have. They didn't get in because they were upset in their own conference tournament by a mediocre Houston team and because the SOS of their own conference pulled them down.

2. You ignore the fact that Xavier was badly hurt last year in the seeding because of a late season injury to a key player. We don't know what effect that had in the minds of the committee - although I have to think it had some effect - but we know it hurt their ability to win games late in the season. that's why Xavier was relegated to the PIG, not because of parity. Their stock fell late in the season due to injury.

3. Your list is numbers. The committee looks at what's behind the numbers. The fact that SMU didn't get in shows how badly they were hurt by a lack of parity.

[hoyahooligan]

Yes obviously less of a clog in the middle would help us, but as long as teams don't drop more than 2 OOC and pick up some quality wins they'll be fine. If Georgetown had gotten to 9-9 in conference they would have made the dance last year despite 3 OOC losses.

Looking at last year's standings for the teams that were 9-9 or 10-8:
Providence 10-8 got in
Xavier 10-8 got in
St. John's 10-8 didn't get in- but had no OOC wins of note
Marquette 9-9 didn't get in - had no OOC wins of note and like 5 OOC loses

So these standings would'n't be a death sentence like you proclaim. As long as teams have good OOC portions of the schedule 9-9 will not preclude them.

Providence only got in because they won the conference tourney. So 3/4 teams don't get in at large- and the 4th only got in the PIG as the next to last team in.

You yourself have discounted the selection show saying Georgetown was the last team out yet you quote it as gospel that Providence would not have gotten in with out the Automatic bid. I didn't realize that you were in the room with the selection committee and know this to be fact.

[stever20]

Yes obviously less of a clog in the middle would help us, but as long as teams don't drop more than 2 OOC and pick up some quality wins they'll be fine. If Georgetown had gotten to 9-9 in conference they would have made the dance last year despite 3 OOC losses.

Looking at last year's standings for the teams that were 9-9 or 10-8:
Providence 10-8 got in
Xavier 10-8 got in
St. John's 10-8 didn't get in- but had no OOC wins of note
Marquette 9-9 didn't get in - had no OOC wins of note and like 5 OOC loses

So these standings would'n't be a death sentence like you proclaim. As long as teams have good OOC portions of the schedule 9-9 will not preclude them.

Providence only got in because they won the conference tourney. So 3/4 teams don't get in at large- and the 4th only got in the PIG as the next to last team in.

You yourself have discounted the selection show saying Georgetown was the last team out yet you quote it as gospel that Providence would not have gotten in with out the Automatic bid. I didn't realize that you were in the room with the selection committee and know this to be fact.

The selection show did NOT say that Georgetown was the last team out. They said that Georgetown was one of the last 4 teams out. HUGE difference there.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basket ... t-analysis

But, of course, the big news here was the reveal of the final at-large teams. SMU, Florida State, Green Bay and Georgetown were the first four teams out. They NEVER reveal exactly who the last team out. Never have.

The Creighton AD was the one who said about PC not making it w/o the auto bid- maybe take it up with him. Given PC's overall rank of 43, it's vey realistic to say they would have been out w/o that given they beat a 3 seed there. Best case they are a PIG team. So 2/4 teams don't get in for sure and 2 are in the PIG.

[stever20]

The AAC got 4 tournament bids- with much better seedings- with no one in the PIG, and really should have had a 5th(SMU should have been in over NC State).
Also really look at the comparison between AAC and Big East records last year
1- AAC 15-3 BE 16-2
2- AAC 15-3 BE 14-4
(same difference there)
3 AAC 12-6 BE 10-8
4 AAC 12-6 BE 10-8
5 AAC 12-6 BE 10-8
(huge differences there)
6 AAC 8-10 BE 9-9
7 AAC 5-13 BE 8-10
8 AAC 4-14 BE 6-12
9 AAC 4-14 BE 4-14
10 AAC 3-15 BE 3-15

So really only a huge difference at #7 and 8. Give me 3-5 better than 7 and 8 any time. if the Big East had the AAC standings- we would have gotten 5 teams in easy with no PIG teams. Parity is not a conferences friend.

The big east is in worse shape because there is more parity(which isn't a good thing in March) than the other conferences. Having your 6-8 being so close to the 1-5 makes for a fun conference season, but hurts in March.

I'm using a magazines projected records because it's darn close to what the final standings actually WERE last year. With Creighton falling, it's showing that impact.

With all due respect, I can't agree with what you're saying here, Stever.

1. SMU did not get in. There are arguments every year about who should have gotten in and who shouldn't, In the real world SMU did NOT get in regardless of whether you think they should have. They didn't get in because they were upset in their own conference tournament by a mediocre Houston team and because the SOS of their own conference pulled them down.

2. You ignore the fact that Xavier was badly hurt last year in the seeding because of a late season injury to a key player. We don't know what effect that had in the minds of the committee - although I have to think it had some effect - but we know it hurt their ability to win games late in the season. that's why Xavier was relegated to the PIG, not because of parity. Their stock fell late in the season due to injury.

3. Your list is numbers. The committee looks at what's behind the numbers. The fact that SMU didn't get in shows how badly they were hurt by a lack of parity.

SMU didn't get in only because of their OOC schedule. Ranked #303 in the country. You have that you are in a lot of trouble. It was not because of lack of parity. Even with that if they beat Houston they are in period.

Xavier's only game they lost maybe because of the injury was the Seton Hall game that he got hurt in that they were losing in already when he got hurt- and Seton Hall had beaten Xavier in Cincy earlier in the year. Villanova and Creighton were their other 2 losses. Also remember one of the teams ahead of them was Iowa who beat them head to head. And Tennessee who they split with- but Tennessee had the neutral site win. So odds are very good they would have been in the PIG regardless. Their stock fell because they were a 20-12 basketball team.

[Bill Marsh]

The AAC got 4 tournament bids- with much better seedings- with no one in the PIG, and really should have had a 5th(SMU should have been in over NC State).
Also really look at the comparison between AAC and Big East records last year
1- AAC 15-3 BE 16-2
2- AAC 15-3 BE 14-4
(same difference there)
3 AAC 12-6 BE 10-8
4 AAC 12-6 BE 10-8
5 AAC 12-6 BE 10-8
(huge differences there)
6 AAC 8-10 BE 9-9
7 AAC 5-13 BE 8-10
8 AAC 4-14 BE 6-12
9 AAC 4-14 BE 4-14
10 AAC 3-15 BE 3-15

So really only a huge difference at #7 and 8. Give me 3-5 better than 7 and 8 any time. if the Big East had the AAC standings- we would have gotten 5 teams in easy with no PIG teams. Parity is not a conferences friend.

The big east is in worse shape because there is more parity(which isn't a good thing in March) than the other conferences. Having your 6-8 being so close to the 1-5 makes for a fun conference season, but hurts in March.

I'm using a magazines projected records because it's darn close to what the final standings actually WERE last year. With Creighton falling, it's showing that impact.

With all due respect, I can't agree with what you're saying here, Stever.

1. SMU did not get in. There are arguments every year about who should have gotten in and who shouldn't, In the real world SMU did NOT get in regardless of whether you think they should have. They didn't get in because they were upset in their own conference tournament by a mediocre Houston team and because the SOS of their own conference pulled them down.

2. You ignore the fact that Xavier was badly hurt last year in the seeding because of a late season injury to a key player. We don't know what effect that had in the minds of the committee - although I have to think it had some effect - but we know it hurt their ability to win games late in the season. that's why Xavier was relegated to the PIG, not because of parity. Their stock fell late in the season due to injury.

3. Your list is numbers. The committee looks at what's behind the numbers. The fact that SMU didn't get in shows how badly they were hurt by a lack of parity.

SMU didn't get in only because of their OOC schedule. Ranked #303 in the country. You have that you are in a lot of trouble. It was not because of lack of parity. Even with that if they beat Houston they are in period.

Xavier's only game they lost maybe because of the injury was the Seton Hall game that he got hurt in that they were losing in already when he got hurt- and Seton Hall had beaten Xavier in Cincy earlier in the year. Villanova and Creighton were their other 2 losses. Also remember one of the teams ahead of them was Iowa who beat them head to head. And Tennessee who they split with- but Tennessee had the neutral site win. So odds are very good they would have been in the PIG regardless. Their stock fell because they were a 20-12 basketball team.

SMU didn't get into the tournament because they lost to 3 bad teams all in conference - USF, Temple, and Houston. The loss to Houston in the conference tournament was the final straw. If they win that game, they're in.

You're making an assumption when you say that SH was the only game they lost because of the injury. Stainbrook was limited to 9 minutes in the Creighton loss, a team they had beaten just 2 weeks earlier with Stainbrook at full strength. A win over Creighton would have changed their resume greatly and would have opened the door to other potential wins.