Providence does not dance unless they beat Creighton

[Jet915]

Makes me feel a little better that PC beat Creighton then. I still think they should have gotten in ahead of NC State had PC lost to Creighton.

[XUFan09]

NC State's inclusion and BYU's seeding are the two great puzzles of this bracket.

The committee objectively followed similar criteria this year as they have in the past in terms of teams getting in/out. Only Cal has a legitimate complaint and only NC State was lucky. http://www.unf.edu/~jcoleman/dance.htm (saying that I thought Cal was out in Fla. St. would get in with NC State next out). But I actually think based upon dance card, this is small mistake.

Xavier was the big mistake as it got shafted as they should not have been in the PIG, but should have received an automatic bye. Objectively Xavier ahead of like 8 teams and should have been 10-11 (but as a Dayton fan, I am enjoying this nevertheless). BYU should have been in the PIG, don't get it except that they scheduled OOC really aggressively and I guess committee rewarded that.

Pretty much what I'm saying, though I don't think Xavier necessarily got the shaft. I thought they would be in the First Four Byes, and be close, and where they were placed wasn't too different from that.

Yeah, I think a few teams were more deserving than NC State. If Xavier has to be in the PIG, I'm happy they're playing them, especially since SLU is a really weak 5 seed after their recent collapse. BYU just doesn't make sense to me, because of Kyle Collingsworth's injury. Wellman just said earlier yesterday that injuries *could* have an effect on selection but play a bigger part with seeding. So, the Cougars lose one of their star players and they are still a 10 seed? Wow. Of course, Wellman has been pretty contradictory, so him saying it isn't so reliable.

By the way, after two years of adhering fairly close to Kenpom, Sagarin, etc., this Selection Committee just gave a big middle finger to those statistical models. It probably has to do with the fact that Mike Bobinski is no longer vice-chair or chair and now Wellman is.

[dmac80]

The spokesman clown on the selection committee is some d-bag from Wake Forest. ACC pr!ck. Freakin NC State shouldn't be anywhere near the tourney, except on NC Central's resume. We need to plant some reliable BE guys on that committee... who represented us in the selection process...? back in the early 80's, the committee was screwing us over, so Gavitt placed himself on the committee and protected us.

In the current system the Big East had better have or get someone on that comittee, (somehow I'm doubting we do) and further, why the hell are conference people on the comittee. Can't it be put in the hands of writers or some impartial (I know I'm dreaming) NCAA committee that has no affiliation with a specific conference?

[Bill Marsh]

I don't get this "IF . . . ", IF . . . ", IF . . ." silliness.

The fact is that Providence did beat Creighton and did win the Big East tournament. The fact is that the only reason they weren't in before that is because Seton Hall upset Villanova and PC's win over them didn't help their resume. IF Villanova hadn't been upset, PC could have made the tournament with a win over Villanova, but we won't know that because the game never happened. IF PC had lost to St. John's, the Johnnies might have grabbed the bid because they'd been playing that well. IF Stainbrook hadn't gotten injured, Xavier would have been a slam dunk and wouldn't be in the PIG.

IF St. Joe's hadn't survived a 3-point scare against Dayton in the A10 tournament, maybe they would have been on the outside looking in. IF NC State hadn't gotten lucky against Syracuse in the ACC tournament, they might not have made the tournament. It takes a lot of things falling into place for the tournament lineup to be what it is.

Some people are acting like the Providence win over Creighton was a fluke. If anything should be clear by now, it's that Providence is a bad matchup for Creighton. Providence won that game because they were the better team on Saturday night. They took the lead early in the game and led throughout the rest of game, never relinquishing the lead. They made 14 straight free throws in the second half to hold that lead. Providence beat Creighton 2 of the 3 times they played. They were just better head-to-head. Providence got in the tournament not because they got lucky, but because they earned it.

The Big East got 4 teams in the tournament because the league was that good and because they proved it on the court. If anything, it took some bad luck with the injury to Stainbrook to even throw that into question. It took some bad luck with Georgetown losing Smith to prevent them from possibly getting a 5th team in. Marquette got some bad breaks. Butler lost its leading scorer.

Seriously, every league has luck effecting its outcomes. To look at the BE at this point and say, "What if . . . " is just ignoring reality.

[stever20]

I don't get this "IF . . . ", IF . . . ", IF . . ." silliness.

The fact is that Providence did beat Creighton and did win the Big East tournament. The fact is that the only reason they weren't in before that is because Seton Hall upset Villanova and PC's win over them didn't help their resume. IF Villanova hadn't been upset, PC could have made the tournament with a win over Villanova, but we won't know that because the game never happened. IF PC had lost to St. John's, the Johnnies might have grabbed the bid because they'd been playing that well. IF Stainbrook hadn't gotten injured, Xavier would have been a slam dunk and wouldn't be in the PIG.

IF St. Joe's hadn't survived a 3-point scare against Dayton in the A10 tournament, maybe they would have been on the outside looking in. IF NC State hadn't gotten lucky against Syracuse in the ACC tournament, they might not have made the tournament. It takes a lot of things falling into place for the tournament lineup to be what it is.

Some people are acting like the Providence win over Creighton was a fluke. If anything should be clear by now, it's that Providence is a bad matchup for Creighton. Providence won that game because they were the better team on Saturday night. They took the lead early in the game and led throughout the rest of game, never relinquishing the lead. They made 14 straight free throws in the second half to hold that lead. Providence beat Creighton 2 of the 3 times they played. They were just better head-to-head. Providence got in the tournament not because they got lucky, but because they earned it.

The Big East got 4 teams in the tournament because the league was that good and because they proved it on the court. If anything, it took some bad luck with the injury to Stainbrook to even throw that into question. It took some bad luck with Georgetown losing Smith to prevent them from possibly getting a 5th team in. Marquette got some bad breaks. Butler lost its leading scorer.

Seriously, ever league has luck effecting its outcomes. To look at the BE at this point and say, "What if . . . " is just ignoring reality.

It seems looking at the profile, Staninbrook's injury was meaningless. The only thing he could have changed was maybe beating Seton Hall, but wasn't Xavier losing pretty decently when he got hurt? Can't say if they have him, they definitely win vs Nova. If he was healthy and they lose last 3 games, they're out no matter what. We said that back on the 3rd I guess it was and it definitely held true. They needed 1 more win.

[Bluejay]

I personally find it offensive that these frauds were going to snub PC. NC state does not belong in this tournament ahead of PC had PC lost. Sorry. Thank God we pulled it off because you could smell the screw job coming from a mile away.

I think what happened is that PC got zero credit for beating Seton Hall. Seton Hall's upset of Nova messed things up quite a bit. It cost Nova a seed line and set up a horrible scenario for PC (win and you get no credit because everyone expects you to win / lose and it is a bad loss that keeps you out).

(I am not saying that NC St deserves in either way, just explaining what I think happened).

[Jet915]

The spokesman clown on the selection committee is some d-bag from Wake Forest. ACC pr!ck. Freakin NC State shouldn't be anywhere near the tourney, except on NC Central's resume. We need to plant some reliable BE guys on that committee... who represented us in the selection process...? back in the early 80's, the committee was screwing us over, so Gavitt placed himself on the committee and protected us.

In the current system the Big East had better have or get someone on that comittee, (somehow I'm doubting we do) and further, why the hell are conference people on the comittee. Can't it be put in the hands of writers or some impartial (I know I'm dreaming) NCAA committee that has no affiliation with a specific conference?

Bruce Rasmussen, Creighton's AD is on the committee.

[Bill Marsh]

I don't get this "IF . . . ", IF . . . ", IF . . ." silliness.

The fact is that Providence did beat Creighton and did win the Big East tournament. The fact is that the only reason they weren't in before that is because Seton Hall upset Villanova and PC's win over them didn't help their resume. IF Villanova hadn't been upset, PC could have made the tournament with a win over Villanova, but we won't know that because the game never happened. IF PC had lost to St. John's, the Johnnies might have grabbed the bid because they'd been playing that well. IF Stainbrook hadn't gotten injured, Xavier would have been a slam dunk and wouldn't be in the PIG.

IF St. Joe's hadn't survived a 3-point scare against Dayton in the A10 tournament, maybe they would have been on the outside looking in. IF NC State hadn't gotten lucky against Syracuse in the ACC tournament, they might not have made the tournament. It takes a lot of things falling into place for the tournament lineup to be what it is.

Some people are acting like the Providence win over Creighton was a fluke. If anything should be clear by now, it's that Providence is a bad matchup for Creighton. Providence won that game because they were the better team on Saturday night. They took the lead early in the game and led throughout the rest of game, never relinquishing the lead. They made 14 straight free throws in the second half to hold that lead. Providence beat Creighton 2 of the 3 times they played. They were just better head-to-head. Providence got in the tournament not because they got lucky, but because they earned it.

The Big East got 4 teams in the tournament because the league was that good and because they proved it on the court. If anything, it took some bad luck with the injury to Stainbrook to even throw that into question. It took some bad luck with Georgetown losing Smith to prevent them from possibly getting a 5th team in. Marquette got some bad breaks. Butler lost its leading scorer.

Seriously, every league has luck effecting its outcomes. To look at the BE at this point and say, "What if . . . " is just ignoring reality.

It seems looking at the profile, Staninbrook's injury was meaningless. The only thing he could have changed was maybe beating Seton Hall, but wasn't Xavier losing pretty decently when he got hurt? Can't say if they have him, they definitely win vs Nova. If he was healthy and they lose last 3 games, they're out no matter what. We said that back on the 3rd I guess it was and it definitely held true. They needed 1 more win.

You have no idea if Stainbrook's injury was meaningless. The committee has said that injuries affect seeding. The fact that his minutes were limited in their last game may well have given the committee pause, and it may be the reason they are in the PIG. Had he been fully healthy in the Creighton game, they may have given them a pass on the Seton Hall loss because they have also said that they look at injuries when it comes to losses as well as wins.

Stainbrook went down with 8 minutes to go in the first half with Seton Hall leading 16-12. Immediately after the TO, Xavier made 2 FT's to close it to 16-14. To claim that a team leading by 2 points in the first half is the team that is inevitably going to win is beyond silly.

With Stainbrook, I felt that Xavier had an excellent chance to beat Villanova in the season finale at home and said so at the time. Without him, X played Nova to a 7-point game. To claim his loss was meaningless and that the season would have played out the same if he were healthy just boggles my mind.

Now we're back to "IF . . . " again when you say "IF he were healthy and (IF) they lose the last 3 games . . ." That's the whole point of my rant. WE DON'T KNOW THAT. It's not real. It's made up B/S.

[stever20]

and my point to your rant is this- isn't that exactly what are you saying? If the injury doesn't happen Xavier would have been a slam dunk and not in the PIG. You are using the word if just as much as me. You have no way of knowing how the game with Nova would have gone. Maybe if he plays, the game is worse than a 7 point loss for Xavier. You just don't know. To act like it automatically would go better for Xavier is not right.

Also, if Xavier beats Seton Hall, do you really think they would have gone in the seed list up 3 slots to avoid the PIG? I don't.

[XUFan09]

@Seton Hall was one of three bad losses on the year. They very well could have gone up three spots, as bad losses can be debilitating.