VCU in the BE may be a dead issue

[NJRedman]

Natty, my basic points are:

State schools are just that- state. Their owners have a big say on the decisions, including sports and conference affiliation.

VCU will have FB if the politicians want them to have it. Was Connecticut not "cash-strapped" when the decision was made to venture into FB?

VCU has been a phenomenal success in growth- facilities, academics, basketball, student population- and this inevitably inspires the universitiy's masters to want more.

Also, how could a cash-strapped newspaper afford a sports reporter who covers only little University of Richmond? How could your sources be superior to his?

I should have noted that IF VCU builds a stadium, it will almost certainly be on land currently zoned commercial. I cannot see them taking residential property for a non-academic building. In addition to the areas mentioned, Scotts Addition has many old wharehouses and there is also Manchester.

Bottom line- yes, FB may well be in VCU's future whether or not they want it. A deal with the Big East could always be trumped by Virginia. Despite VCU's great bball resume' they would be a flight risk, as would UCONN, Cincy, etc. After the BE debacle, I doubt that the presidents are willing to take a chance on a repeat performance.

Well actually CT wasn't cashed strapped. It was 1997 when they made the decision to move up. The economy was actually doing really well then.

[SecureDaBall]

Oh and it's also funny how the OP, who just signed up mind you, accidentally deleted said email. This whole thread smells like BS to me.

My thoughts exactly.

[marquette]

Oh and it's also funny how the OP, who just signed up mind you, accidentally deleted said email. This whole thread smells like BS to me.

My thoughts exactly.

Not saying I believe it or not, but how would one produce an email for a forum in any way other than a copy/paste? And if that is the only way, why not just type it out and pretend that you copy/pasted it? It does sound suspicious that he felt the need to say that, but I don't see how lying about that really benefits his assertion.

[SecureDaBall]

Oh and it's also funny how the OP, who just signed up mind you, accidentally deleted said email. This whole thread smells like BS to me.

My thoughts exactly.

Not saying I believe it or not, but how would one produce an email for a forum in any way other than a copy/paste? And if that is the only way, why not just type it out and pretend that you copy/pasted it? It does sound suspicious that he felt the need to say that, but I don't see how lying about that really benefits his assertion.

I take any post about someone having insider info with a grain of salt so a posted email will probably not sway my opinion of the OP.

[marquette]

I take any post about someone having insider info with a grain of salt so a posted email will probably not sway my opinion of the OP.

That's pretty much what I was getting at

[Natty]

Also, how could a cash-strapped newspaper afford a sports reporter who covers only little University of Richmond? How could your sources be superior to his?

I cover VCU full time (www.vcuramnation.com)...O'Connor has nothing on me when it comes to VCU information/sources. I don't care how many papers he writes for, he doesn't have the relationships I have at VCU. I knew VCU was moving to the A-10 before it was ever reported and I'll know if we're moving again if that happens.

[BillikensWin]

Also, how could a cash-strapped newspaper afford a sports reporter who covers only little University of Richmond? How could your sources be superior to his?

I cover VCU full time (http://www.vcuramnation.com)...O'Connor has nothing on me when it comes to VCU information/sources. I don't care how many papers he writes for, he doesn't have the relationships I have at VCU. I knew VCU was moving to the A-10 before it was ever reported and I'll know if we're moving again if that happens.

I'd vouch for Natty in terms of quality of info that I've seen. I just don't see football in the VCU picture any more than I don't see it happening at SLU.

[notkirkcameron]

Let's play some alternate history


I say that because if UConn had never added football, so many conference decisions over the past 10 years have been made as dominoes fall (ACC adds Miami, VT and BC.....so then the Big East adds USF, UL, UC, DPU, and MU....so then C-USA adds Marshall, UTEP, etc.) If UConn never upgraded their football to FBS, they would have been, effectively, Villanova/Georgetown/Butler.

In 2003, when the ACC poached VT, Miami, and BC, UConn's Big East transition was accelerated, but if UConn had never upgraded to FBS, the loss of those three teams would have brought the Big East to 5 football members (Rutgers, Syracuse, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Temple)....so then maybe Temple isn't cut loose. If they're not, would the old Big East's realigment choices have stayed the same?

USF oddly is the most likely fit as they were discussed to be the replacement for media exposure and recruitment in Florida.

Adding only one of Cincinnati and Louisville would have only gotten the league to 7, so then probably both would be added.

However, a football conference with only 8 teams means an uneven number of home/away games. The MWC struggled with this for years. So the old Big East probably would have sought a 9th football team. Villanova and Georgetown appear unwilling to upgrade their programs to FBS, and we're assuming UConn is off the table. UMass had not yet upgraded to FBS, although presumably UConn would have objected to a move which would have strengthened UMass' dormant basketball program. In a way this would not be too different from BC reportedly blocking the ACC from adding UConn. So where does the Big East get the 9th program from? I wouldn't have been surprised to see the Big East add Memphis. That would have gotten them to 9 programs and added a quality basketball program. The Big East would have 9 for football (Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Temple, Rutgers, West Virginia, Cincinnati, South Florida, Louisville, Memphis), and 15 for basketball, which at the time, was pretty much unheard of for a major basketball conference. If Temple was added as an all-sports member (presumably not, at Villanova's insistence), it would be a 16-team basketball league. Where am I going with this?

So at a 15 or 16-team basketball league, Marquette and DePaul may have never been invited to the Big East. They'd have been left in a Conference USA which would still have 4 non-football programs (MU, DPU, SLU, UNCC), however, all the other programs worth playing had been ripped out of the conference. The only other programs left would be TCU, Houston, Tulane, East Carolina, UAB, and Southern Miss. TCU would have needed to add at least two more football members, which in all likelihood, would have continued watering down the basketball as football schools like Marshall and Central Florida stepped in to fill the void.

What's perhaps equally as likely is that those four schools would try to grab some like-minded programs from the old Metro/Great Midwest days, and pull a new conference together that would probably include: Marquette, DePaul, Saint Louis, NC-Charlotte, Butler, Dayton, Xavier, Creighton, and VCU. Effectively, the same conversation we're having right now without the Eastern media markets. The basketball would not have been on ESPN, but it wouldn't have been sub-par either. You'd probably only see 3, 4 teams tops in the tournament every year, but it would beat road trips to Hattiesburg.

No point to this, and none of it would stop the Big Ten from moving to get Nebraska, but it's just a fun "what if" to play.

[marq6670]

Interesting replies! First of all, I am a computer klutz. While attempting another post, something really screwy happened with my computer and I very quickly bailed, having been hacked before. I take no chances in that scenario. Thank you so much for your attacks on my integrity. Apologies accepted.

Question: During the early days of the new Big East, did the presidents offer membership to UCONN or Cincy (or VCU- would have been a perfect time to offer) before offering to the 3 new members? If not, why not? Why would they consider them now in any future expansion?

My opinion on VCU joining the BE? It would be great! I simply do not see it happening unless Fox "persuades" the presidents to do so. If it does happen, please feel free to scream "Itoldjaso!"

[NJRedman]

Let's play some alternate history


I say that because if UConn had never added football, so many conference decisions over the past 10 years have been made as dominoes fall (ACC adds Miami, VT and BC.....so then the Big East adds USF, UL, UC, DPU, and MU....so then C-USA adds Marshall, UTEP, etc.) If UConn never upgraded their football to FBS, they would have been, effectively, Villanova/Georgetown/Butler.

In 2003, when the ACC poached VT, Miami, and BC, UConn's Big East transition was accelerated, but if UConn had never upgraded to FBS, the loss of those three teams would have brought the Big East to 5 football members (Rutgers, Syracuse, West Virginia, Pittsburgh, Temple)....so then maybe Temple isn't cut loose. If they're not, would the old Big East's realigment choices have stayed the same?

USF oddly is the most likely fit as they were discussed to be the replacement for media exposure and recruitment in Florida.

Adding only one of Cincinnati and Louisville would have only gotten the league to 7, so then probably both would be added.

However, a football conference with only 8 teams means an uneven number of home/away games. The MWC struggled with this for years. So the old Big East probably would have sought a 9th football team. Villanova and Georgetown appear unwilling to upgrade their programs to FBS, and we're assuming UConn is off the table. UMass had not yet upgraded to FBS, although presumably UConn would have objected to a move which would have strengthened UMass' dormant basketball program. In a way this would not be too different from BC reportedly blocking the ACC from adding UConn. So where does the Big East get the 9th program from? I wouldn't have been surprised to see the Big East add Memphis. That would have gotten them to 9 programs and added a quality basketball program. The Big East would have 9 for football (Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Temple, Rutgers, West Virginia, Cincinnati, South Florida, Louisville, Memphis), and 15 for basketball, which at the time, was pretty much unheard of for a major basketball conference. If Temple was added as an all-sports member (presumably not, at Villanova's insistence), it would be a 16-team basketball league. Where am I going with this?

So at a 15 or 16-team basketball league, Marquette and DePaul may have never been invited to the Big East. They'd have been left in a Conference USA which would still have 4 non-football programs (MU, DPU, SLU, UNCC), however, all the other programs worth playing had been ripped out of the conference. The only other programs left would be TCU, Houston, Tulane, East Carolina, UAB, and Southern Miss. TCU would have needed to add at least two more football members, which in all likelihood, would have continued watering down the basketball as football schools like Marshall and Central Florida stepped in to fill the void.

What's perhaps equally as likely is that those four schools would try to grab some like-minded programs from the old Metro/Great Midwest days, and pull a new conference together that would probably include: Marquette, DePaul, Saint Louis, NC-Charlotte, Butler, Dayton, Xavier, Creighton, and VCU. Effectively, the same conversation we're having right now without the Eastern media markets. The basketball would not have been on ESPN, but it wouldn't have been sub-par either. You'd probably only see 3, 4 teams tops in the tournament every year, but it would beat road trips to Hattiesburg.

No point to this, and none of it would stop the Big Ten from moving to get Nebraska, but it's just a fun "what if" to play.

I don't think all that much changes. I think Memphis just gets added along with the other CUSA additions. It also just gives more reason for Cuse and Pitt to jump the second they can and most of the same happens anyway. Who knows, maybe after a Big East invite Memphis actually starts to take FB seriously? Either way, I think for the most part our current Big East is much the same but sitting at 12 with both UConn and SLU as members. We probably get more love because UConn, recent NCAA champs is in the mix and helps silence some of the "The real Big East is dead" BS. I say helps, not stops that talk since ESPN would still be pushing that stupid talking point.

Maybe Temple stays around for an extra year or two to help with the transition but I also still see them getting the boot.