More Disappointing: Marquette or SJ?

[GumbyDamnit!]

Marquette so far. They still have time to get it together but if they end up in the bottom half of the league that will not be good. FWIW, there were a LOT of MU posters on this board sticking their chests out about St Buzz and the Marq program, who would chastise anyone who dared to suggest that they would struggle to replace the guys they lost. I recall one heated exchange when it was suggested that the best in-conference rivalry was Nova-G'twn. The Marq guys couldn't understand how they were left out of the final matchup of the year instead. It looks like, at this point, that Fox got it right.

[shupat08]

It's not St John's... Because while they are talented and sometimes they look scary, they have no team concept and Lavin doesn't coach... Just ask Baron Davis: "We should have a banner hanging up we were the only team to make the tournament without a coach."

It has to be Marquette.

[XUFan09]

St. John's are going to go on a run at some point - they're far too talented not to.

James,

Please explain why you believe that St.John's has "talented" (your term) players.

Yes, many of the,players were ranked in recruit listings but since arriving at St.John's they have proven to be mediocre at best. Lavin has not done a good job recruiting players that play within a team concept.

A team is what their record is and St.John's won't qualify for the NCAA this season. Capisce?

Or, Lavin has not done a good job of developing a strong team concept with the players he has. That seems far more likely, as rarely are players actually "uncoachable." It's obvious to anyone that has watched St. John's this year that they have a highly talented collection of players that don't mesh together. And that's probably because Lavin is one of the weaker coaches in the conference.

Chris Mack has Xavier playing very well within a strong team concept, so he clearly knows who to recruit to make that work. He also heavily recruited both Rysheed Jordan and JaKarr Sampson. Are they suddenly not guys that play within a team concept because they went to St. John's?

[Friarfan2]

The Marquette fans were ridiculous this summer/fall. If anyone said, "hey, marquette lost their three best players, they might take a step back, just making the tournament would be a pretty good accomplishment," the marquette fans would go wild. They didn't grasp that concept and were hyping buzz williams up as a coach who would finish in the top 25 with any 12 given players, regardless of talent or experience.

They seem to have calmed down now, but they were unbearable this off season.

[NJRedman]

Probably biased here, but I'm going with SJ. 6 top 100 players including a 5 star PG, the best blocker in the NCAA, the Big East ROY, the 2nd leading scorer in the conference, a Jordan Brand All-American, a Dominican National Team player, a top 50 PG nationally, etc. etc. With that on paper, it should clearly be in contention for the conference title. Veterans and youth all mixed. So no young team excuse. Some people were even wondering if this year's team could be in the top 25 and make the Sweet 16 or further. Looking back, we have no bad losses, but we have 4 losses. 9-4 is not going to cut it. We should really be 11-2 with a win over #2 Cuse. That would have put us at probably #22 ish in the nation. That's what the talent can do. But instead, we are 9-4 and may not get our 10th win for a LONG time with G'Town and Nova coming up. This team is very likely 9-6 very soon. This team leaves itself literally no room for error if it wants to make the tourney. From here on out they have to beat teams they should i.e. SHU, PC, DePaul, etc. but I bet my life they will lose to at least 1 of them.

Marquette was supposed to be good too, but SJ had its best team since I've been alive and they blow it…again. SJ just was not meant to be for some reason…the basketball gods hate us.

And I can't even read Redmen.com anymore (SJ fan forum) because of how delusional the posters are. 90% of them say even now that a 9-4 record is not a big deal and we will be fine. Really? If you told me we won the next 5 in a row then yeah maybe we would be fine. But let's be real we won't make the tourney this year.

If you can't take some losses you need to stop following St. John's. They lose the first conference game on the road to a tough X squad and you're ready to pack it in? Go follow Duke if all you want to see is winning.

I've seen SJU at their best (#2 seed in NCAA, winning the Big East Tournament and beating Duke at Cameron Indoor) and i've seen them at their worst. This is neither. This is a lot better than most of the last decade. Yes, I wish they won more but it's not as bad as when we had an entire team of walk ons.

[handdownmandown]

There was one MU fan who was atrocious, but the bulk of the team's fans would go under 'highly positive' if you ask me. And that one guy seems to have vanished.

There was more than one Nova fan who vehemently backed their team and players this offseason and they're not being called out.

[GumbyDamnit!]

There was one MU fan who was atrocious, but the bulk of the team's fans would go under 'highly positive' if you ask me. And that one guy seems to have vanished.

There was more than one Nova fan who vehemently backed their team and players this offseason and they're not being called out.

I recall a lot of Nova fans thinking that they would be better than 4th place in the league while most MU fans stated that they would be the clear favorite to win the league, and would never even consider finishing out of the top 3. At this point why would any Nova fan need to be "called out?". And is it a big surprise that the guy vanished with the way MU has played so far?

[handdownmandown]

That was my point: Nova fans don't need to be called out.

My other point was that while there were a few Marquette fans who were over the top, most were just being fans. When you have their track record over the last half dozen years, assuming they would automatically re-load wasn't beyond the pale.

[cr8onbb]

For anyone other than SJ fans, it is clearly Marquette. To go from preseason favorite to a potential play in team in NYC is quite a disappointment. I have to say I was very impressed with the Marquette fans I met in Omaha, very knowledgeable and friendly, but Marquette's offense just had no flow and they really have a ways to go. Realistically, those who projected them to finish so high are really who should be questioned. Losing as much from last year as they did, a rebuilding year should have been expected, much like I expect Creighton to be doing next year.

[Westbrook36]

That was my point: Nova fans don't need to be called out.

My other point was that while there were a few Marquette fans who were over the top, most were just being fans. When you have their track record over the last half dozen years, assuming they would automatically re-load wasn't beyond the pale.

This is water under the bridge at this point, but I was one of Nova posters more bullish on our team this year. I actually said on one of the poll threads about where schools would finish, that I wouldn't be surprised if Nova was actually the best team in the conference this year.

Now for those "heated" arguments, not sure you could really call them that, they were pretty civil, more like agreeing to disagree type deals. On other boards those wouldn't even be called arguments. I think it was just more like there were more Marquette fans on here than any others fans at the time, and their majority drowned out most other opinions. The thing that stood out about them though, was most Marquette fans absolute denial about the possibility of something like this year they're having, actually happening. It's was all Buzz, reload, JUCO's, freshman, no way in hell we finish outside the top 3.

Track record really doesn't have much to do with it. Villanova's track record was outstanding, better than Marquette's, until a couple of seasons ago. Bad seasons happen to every school eventually, even bluebloods like Carolina, Kentucky, Syracuse, Kansas, all have had clunker seasons and will have them again. If you don't think your school will have a down year every once in awhile, then you haven't been following college hoops long enough.