Big East Conference Expansion Ideas and Discussion

[Burrito]

Saint Louis is generally considered to be the likely next addition if the BIg East expands. Looking at their stats through 9 games, the seniors account for 67% of the minutes played, 69% of the points and 59% of the rebounds. Once the Majerus kids graduate, I have doubts whether the new coach can sustain the program's recent success.

[adoraz11]

Saint Louis is generally considered to be the likely next addition if the BIg East expands. Looking at their stats through 9 games, the seniors account for 67% of the minutes played, 69% of the points and 59% of the rebounds. Once the Majerus kids graduate, I have doubts whether the new coach can sustain the program's recent success.

SLU hasn't impressed this year. They've played well, but looks like they have no big wins and missed a couple opportunities at home. I wasn't aware of the senior playing time either.

They're not a very exciting pick, but not the worst pick either. I just feel they'd quickly regress to the back of the pack while a team like Gonzaga or VCU wouldn't.

[HoosierPal]

Saint Louis is generally considered to be the likely next addition if the BIg East expands. Looking at their stats through 9 games, the seniors account for 67% of the minutes played, 69% of the points and 59% of the rebounds. Once the Majerus kids graduate, I have doubts whether the new coach can sustain the program's recent success.

SLU hasn't impressed this year. They've played well, but looks like they have no big wins and missed a couple opportunities at home. I wasn't aware of the senior playing time either.

They're not a very exciting pick, but not the worst pick either. I just feel they'd quickly regress to the back of the pack while a team like Gonzaga or VCU wouldn't.

Here we go with the Flavor of the Month discussion again. I can't believe you are looking at this year record, or even the last two or three years, as your primary criteria. If that is the case, give DePaul and Seton Hall the goodbye handshake. How about discussing comparable educational philosophy, endowments, athletic facilities, research facilities, temporary professor transfer possibilities. The next tier will be TV market share. THEN, you look at school's commitment to athletics. To look at this year's records (for example as several are doing with Dayton) completely misses the boat. Dayton is a fine institution. Their merit needs to be on much more then their past 9 games.

[adoraz11]

Saint Louis is generally considered to be the likely next addition if the BIg East expands. Looking at their stats through 9 games, the seniors account for 67% of the minutes played, 69% of the points and 59% of the rebounds. Once the Majerus kids graduate, I have doubts whether the new coach can sustain the program's recent success.

SLU hasn't impressed this year. They've played well, but looks like they have no big wins and missed a couple opportunities at home. I wasn't aware of the senior playing time either.

They're not a very exciting pick, but not the worst pick either. I just feel they'd quickly regress to the back of the pack while a team like Gonzaga or VCU wouldn't.

Here we go with the Flavor of the Month discussion again. I can't believe you are looking at this year record, or even the last two or three years, as your primary criteria. If that is the case, give DePaul and Seton Hall the goodbye handshake. How about discussing comparable educational philosophy, endowments, athletic facilities, research facilities, temporary professor transfer possibilities. The next tier will be TV market share. THEN, you look at school's commitment to athletics. To look at this year's records (for example as several are doing with Dayton) completely misses the boat. Dayton is a fine institution. Their merit needs to be on much more then their past 9 games.

.....what? I'm doing the opposite of this post, I'm not looking for "flavor of the month" for my top choices. Gonzaga and VCU have played better than both teams not just the past year, but most of the past couple decades. In terms of play, they have been better than both Dayton and SLU for a while, so I rank them higher. I mentioned this last page.

For the record, I think SLU will be added. They're just not a very exciting pick this year or any year really. Even last year when they were ranked.

[Dew]

Why are we even discussing teams? I don't think there's any reason why the Big East should expand.

[stever20]

Why are we even discussing teams? I don't think there's any reason why the Big East should expand.

scenarios like what Lunardi put out today which is very viable with 4 teams making tourney and none better than a 7 seed and 1 in a PIG are the reason why the Big East should expand. I'm telling you the 10 team round robin is just a bid killer.

[Moliva]

Fox doesn't want their investment to be viewed as a midmajor league. Adding A10 teams would make us just that. To think that the Big East is going to make expansion decisions based on the RPIs of teams one month into a season is CRAZY!

Now I agree with you that the Big East doesn't want average A10 teams so we better not take any of them. if they were good enough to be in a major conference, they would have been invited already.

Great points. Where do you see A10 mid packer George Washington in the expansion discussion?

[Bill Marsh]

Saint Louis is generally considered to be the likely next addition if the BIg East expands. Looking at their stats through 9 games, the seniors account for 67% of the minutes played, 69% of the points and 59% of the rebounds. Once the Majerus kids graduate, I have doubts whether the new coach can sustain the program's recent success.

SLU hasn't impressed this year. They've played well, but looks like they have no big wins and missed a couple opportunities at home. I wasn't aware of the senior playing time either.

They're not a very exciting pick, but not the worst pick either. I just feel they'd quickly regress to the back of the pack while a team like Gonzaga or VCU wouldn't.

Here we go with the Flavor of the Month discussion again. I can't believe you are looking at this year record, or even the last two or three years, as your primary criteria. If that is the case, give DePaul and Seton Hall the goodbye handshake. How about discussing comparable educational philosophy, endowments, athletic facilities, research facilities, temporary professor transfer possibilities. The next tier will be TV market share. THEN, you look at school's commitment to athletics. To look at this year's records (for example as several are doing with Dayton) completely misses the boat. Dayton is a fine institution. Their merit needs to be on much more then their past 9 games.

First, the league can't give anyone the good bye handshake. The conference by laws don't permit it.

Second, this is about building an athletic conference, not an educational consortium. That's why the primary focus is not on ed philosophy, endowments, research, professors, etc. Some of that is relevant in that the original purpose for conferences was to provide an even playing field so that schools are competing against other schools with similar academic demands on their athletes, similar entrance requirements, similar eligibility standards, etc. But it's all about the competition, not about professor transfers and the like.

Third, conferences today are primarily scheduling and media contract negotiating collaborations. So, facilities, attendance, TV market share, and commitment to athletics are certainly important. But how better to measure commitment to athletics that a school's track record to success as reflected by their history over a reasonable period of time. Something has been wrong at Dayton basketball or they would have such a record of futility over an extended period of time. They have such a strong fan base, so they have to be kept in the discussion, but unless they show a stronger ability to be successful, it would be difficult to welcome them.

[adoraz11]

I believe Fox is calling the shots. They're the one who offered the massive contract and are trying to launch FS1 and FS2 with BE as the main headliner first couple years, More teams means more games, ratings, and if the teams are good a better and more desirable product. 10 teams is too small for a conference where a lot of the teams (SH, Providence, DePaul, and my own SJU) haven't had much success in a while and can't be relied upon. The round robin schedule also doesn't work well for getting bids. Fox wants the conference to be on a similar level as the other major conferences.

The ACC has about 15/16 teams right now. Take out 5/6 and the conference doesn't look nearly as dominate. More teams generally means more bids. Just imagine for a second if the BE added 5/6 teams such as VCU, Gonzaga, SLU, Dayton, etc. Suddenly we go from being a 4 bid conference to an 8 bid conference. I'm not saying we would add 5 teams overnight, but I think 2 solid teams next year could do a lot for us.

This is why I think they will expand in the next couple years.

[Bill Marsh]

I believe Fox is calling the shots. They're the one who offered the massive contract and are trying to launch FS1 and FS2 with BE as the main headliner first couple years, More teams means more games, ratings, and if the teams are good a better and more desirable product. 10 teams is too small for a conference where a lot of the teams (SH, Providence, DePaul, and my own SJU) haven't had much success in a while and can't be relied upon. The round robin schedule also doesn't work well for getting bids. Fox wants the conference to be on a similar level as the other major conferences.

The ACC has about 15/16 teams right now. Take out 5/6 and the conference doesn't look nearly as dominate. More teams generally means more bids. Just imagine for a second if the BE added 5/6 teams such as VCU, Gonzaga, SLU, Dayton, etc. Suddenly we go from being a 4 bid conference to an 8 bid conference. I'm not saying we would add 5 teams overnight, but I think 2 solid teams next year could do a lot for us.

This is why I think they will expand in the next couple years.

I agree that Fox is calling the shots and they want to see the conference expand. As long as they provide enough money to keep the revenue stream the same for all the existing member, then there will be expansion for better or worse.

Bigger doesn't necessarily mean better. Nor does it necessarily mean higher ratings. Quality matters. We will be watching the AAC grow before our eyes over the next few years, but with the loss of Louisville combined with the awful basketball additions, they will not be a better conference than they are this year. They will be decidedly worse. The Big XII has made the assessment that expansion will not make them better, so they are staying at 10.

Conference expansion has largely to do with finding ways to increase revenue opportunities, not as a way to get more teams into the tournament. Large, unwieldy conferences are killers for struggling programs as we saw in the former bloated version of the Big East. Once teams fell to the bottom third, they tended to get stuck there. It was exactly the opposite experience in the conference's early years when the bottom schools could grow into Final four and Elite 8 teams right before our eyes. There was much more fluidity and movement within a smaller conference.

So, given that the expansion desired by Fox is inevitable, then the conference must focus on quality basketball schools if there is any hope to obtain more bids. Last summer I proposed Gonzaga and BYU as western paired travel partners since Gonzaga is clearly the biggest name out there and is compatible with the profile of the other members. The proposal met with mixed reaction here for many legitimate reasons. The next best option IMO is VCU, but they too have met with some resistance for reasons that are unfathomable to me if the conference hopes to be successful as a big time basketball league. After VCU, I really don't see anyone who has established their credentials as a quality program that would at least maintain the level of play in the conference rather than water it down. If VCU were the choice, then I'd look at Dayton or St Louis to be added to a Midwest division. There really is no one else prepared to compete on this level, so I'd stop there.

With regard to Providence, DePaul, and St. John's not having had much success recently and therefore not being able to be relied on, I would respectfully disagree. Those 3 are classic examples of programs that got buried during down cycles and had too big a hill to climb in the mammoth old Big East. Those programs have certainly shown the commitment and the fan support in the past to be successful. Two of the 3 are currently in the process of being rejuvenated, and I'm optimistic that Depaul will follow suit.