Big East vs. Power Leagues Discussion

[DumpsterFireA10]

The powers that be in the Big East didn't do everything they did over the last year to be compared to trashcan fires like the A-10. This is about competition with the best, which was the whole idea of this post. I would think the Big East fans want a whole lot more than that. Too many A-10 fans are happy with the "mid-major" designation, which is appalling. I've actually seen people say that "After the Big East, the A-10 is the second best basketball-only league out there". That makes me sick personally. In reality, there is no middle ground.

[stever20]

The powers that be in the Big East didn't do everything they did over the last year to be compared to trashcan fires like the A-10. This is about competition with the best, which was the whole idea of this post. I would think the Big East fans want a whole lot more than that. Too many A-10 fans are happy with the "mid-major" designation, which is appalling. I've actually seen people say that "After the Big East, the A-10 is the second best basketball-only league out there". That makes me sick personally. In reality, there is no middle ground.

the thing is, the A10/MWC are better several years than the SEC or Pac 12. The SEC or Pac 12 aren't the best.

[TheHall]

The problem is though that the A10 and MWC have shown that in several years, both are ahead of some of the football leagues. Last year MWC was ahead of Big 12 and SEC. A10 was barely behind the SEC. 2 years ago, A10 and MWC were both ahead of the Pac 12.

Valid points but this is bigger than a 2yr stretch, a 5yr run, or even a good decade. The BE had to do it for 30 years to get compared to the traditional power conferences so I'm not crowning another conference high major status so quickly. That doesn't mean sometimes those other leagues won't be as good as the power conferences in some years, but that's just the law of statistics not necessarily a power shift.

When Marcus Camby in the A-10 at UMass was the best player in the country and Umass made it to the FInal Four, they still were a mid-major school from a mid-major conference with a great player. No way the BE should be comparing itself to those conferences. BE needs to maintain a comparison to the B1G & that's it IMO...the ACC used to be Duke/UNC & the 10 dwarves & now it will be Duke/UNC/Cuse/Louis & the 11 dwarves. Only the B1G & historically the BE have shown high quality and great depth in conference.

[stever20]

The problem is though that the A10 and MWC have shown that in several years, both are ahead of some of the football leagues. Last year MWC was ahead of Big 12 and SEC. A10 was barely behind the SEC. 2 years ago, A10 and MWC were both ahead of the Pac 12.

Valid points but this is bigger than a 2yr stretch, a 5yr run, or even a good decade. The BE had to do it for 30 years to get compared to the traditional power conferences so I'm not crowning another conference high major status so quickly. That doesn't mean sometimes those other leagues won't be as good as the power conferences in some years, but that's just the law of statistics not necessarily a power shift.

When Marcus Camby in the A-10 at UMass was the best player in the country and Umass made it to the FInal Four, they still were a mid-major school from a mid-major conference with a great player. No way the BE should be comparing itself to those conferences. BE needs to maintain a comparison to the B1G & that's it IMO...the ACC used to be Duke/UNC & the 10 dwarves & now it will be Duke/UNC/Cuse/Louis & the 11 dwarves. Only the B1G & historically the BE have shown high quality and great depth in conference.

I can buy that a lot more than just blindly including the SEC and Pac 12 but not the MWC or A10.

It will be interesting to see the RPI overall with all the conference shifts.

[DumpsterFireA10]

The problem is though that the A10 and MWC have shown that in several years, both are ahead of some of the football leagues. Last year MWC was ahead of Big 12 and SEC. A10 was barely behind the SEC. 2 years ago, A10 and MWC were both ahead of the Pac 12.

Valid points but this is bigger than a 2yr stretch, a 5yr run, or even a good decade. The BE had to do it for 30 years to get compared to the traditional power conferences so I'm not crowning another conference high major status so quickly. That doesn't mean sometimes those other leagues won't be as good as the power conferences in some years, but that's just the law of statistics not necessarily a power shift.

When Marcus Camby in the A-10 at UMass was the best player in the country and Umass made it to the FInal Four, they still were a mid-major school from a mid-major conference with a great player. No way the BE should be comparing itself to those conferences. BE needs to maintain a comparison to the B1G & that's it IMO...the ACC used to be Duke/UNC & the 10 dwarves & now it will be Duke/UNC/Cuse/Louis & the 11 dwarves. Only the B1G & historically the BE have shown high quality and great depth in conference.

I can buy that a lot more than just blindly including the SEC and Pac 12 but not the MWC or A10.

It will be interesting to see the RPI overall with all the conference shifts.

It's not blindly including anyone. The SEC and Pac-12 have longtime national powers. Just about everybody would like to have the history of Kentucky or UCLA. That's why they are included. I don't see a UK or UCLA in the two leagues you suggest adding.

[TheHall]

The problem is though that the A10 and MWC have shown that in several years, both are ahead of some of the football leagues. Last year MWC was ahead of Big 12 and SEC. A10 was barely behind the SEC. 2 years ago, A10 and MWC were both ahead of the Pac 12.

Valid points but this is bigger than a 2yr stretch, a 5yr run, or even a good decade. The BE had to do it for 30 years to get compared to the traditional power conferences so I'm not crowning another conference high major status so quickly. That doesn't mean sometimes those other leagues won't be as good as the power conferences in some years, but that's just the law of statistics not necessarily a power shift.

When Marcus Camby in the A-10 at UMass was the best player in the country and Umass made it to the FInal Four, they still were a mid-major school from a mid-major conference with a great player. No way the BE should be comparing itself to those conferences. BE needs to maintain a comparison to the B1G & that's it IMO...the ACC used to be Duke/UNC & the 10 dwarves & now it will be Duke/UNC/Cuse/Louis & the 11 dwarves. Only the B1G & historically the BE have shown high quality and great depth in conference.

I can buy that a lot more than just blindly including the SEC and Pac 12 but not the MWC or A10.

It will be interesting to see the RPI overall with all the conference shifts.

Pundits are saying the Pac is back so we'll have to check back later on whether they've gotten above the B12/MWC/A10 level where they've been.

[stever20]

Pac 12 2 years ago had their regular season conference champion miss the tournament. That's not a power conference....

1 team doesn't a conference make.

[DumpsterFireA10]

Pac 12 2 years ago had their regular season conference champion miss the tournament. That's not a power conference....

1 team doesn't a conference make.

This country fixates on history. The P12 has UCLA and Arizona's history. The SEC has Florida and UK's. That's why. MWC has UNLV...but Vegas hasn't been a top contender since Tarkanian left.

[TheHall]

It's not blindly including anyone. The SEC and Pac-12 have longtime national powers. Just about everybody would like to have the history of Kentucky or UCLA. That's why they are included. I don't see a UK or UCLA in the two leagues you suggest adding.

Those two conferences are down, not dead. That's why it's unfair to lump them in with the MWC/A10. Those conferences are sleeping giants. SJU or SHU never became considered mid-majors even though they had been outperformed by many mid-majors over recent memory. Potential, like the right coach/tv exposure/location, sets high majors apart along with tradition.

[DumpsterFireA10]

It's not blindly including anyone. The SEC and Pac-12 have longtime national powers. Just about everybody would like to have the history of Kentucky or UCLA. That's why they are included. I don't see a UK or UCLA in the two leagues you suggest adding.

Those two conferences are down, not dead. That's why it's unfair to lump them in with the MWC/A10. Those conferences are sleeping giants. SJU or SHU never became considered mid-majors even though they had been outperformed by many mid-majors over recent memory. Potential, like the right coach/tv exposure/location, sets high majors apart along with tradition.

It's a matter of who's "good" now. I think most of you guys would rather be compared to the football schools than lesser basketball leagues. Would the Big East have taken a Kentucky or Kansas if they were available? I think so. The need for "descriptors" is the reason a lot of these terms exist. Does mid-major mean anything? No, it doesn't.

You're either an elite conference, or you're part of "everybody else".

I also think your first sentence is prescient. "Power conferences" can afford down years and hold their position.