Trivia du Jour

[Bill Marsh]

5 current Big East schools have made it to the Final Four in the past 25 years. And the 3 Catholic members were the only Catholic schools to do so in that span.

In the previous 25 years, that number was 12. St. Bonaventure and Dayton also made it to the Final Four in that quarter century. In addition, St. John's (1965) and Marquette (1970) won NITs that mattered. Current Big East schools won 3 national championships.

Final Fours didn't mean the same before that, but Catholic schools were winning national championships like crazy back in the day (pre-1965):

NCAA titles - 1947, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1963
NIT titles - 1943, 1944, 1948, 1949, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1958, 1959, 1961, 1962, 1963

I'll leave it to others to argue which was the true NC and which of the NIT finalists were as good as or better than their NCAA counterparts. Butt there's no doubt that the Catholic schools produced nationally elite teams year after year.

What happened?

[Hall2012]

What happened is the corporate word took over and college hoops transitioned from an extra curricular activity to a big business. The Big East is really what got the whole thing started with that original ESPN contract. We dominated that period, but also showed the rest of the country how much money was in college hoops. As a result, big state schools started pouring millions of dollars of state funding that catholic schools don't have into their programs, then the NCAA Tournament expanded to 64 teams, and college basketball became what it is today- run by the TV networks, corporate sponsors, and the greed of the NCAA.

Fortunately, so many state schools now pushing basketball aside for the sport they see even more corporate $$ in (football), perhaps the catholic schools have an opportunity to push their way back into the basketball spotlight.

[Xudash]

3 current Big East schools have made it to the Final Four in the past 25 years. And they were the only Catholic schools to do so in that span.

In the previous 25 years, that number was 12. St. Bonaventure and Dayton also made it to the Final Four in that quarter century. In addition, St. John's (1965) and Marquette (1970) won NITs that mattered. Current Big East schools won 3 national championships.

Final Fours didn't mean the same before that, but Catholic schools were winning national championships like crazy back in the day (pre-1965):

NCAA titles - 1947, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1963
NIT titles - 1943, 1944, 1948, 1949, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1958, 1959, 1961, 1962, 1963

I'll leave it to others to argue which was the true NC and which of the NIT finalists were as good as or better than their NCAA counterparts. Butt there's no doubt that the Catholic schools produced nationally elite teams year after year.

What happened?

Bill, if the NIT mattered in '65 and '70, the I would submit that Xavier's NIT Championship in 1958 could be included in all this.

[stever20]

3 current Big East schools have made it to the Final Four in the past 25 years. And they were the only Catholic schools to do so in that span.

In the previous 25 years, that number was 12. St. Bonaventure and Dayton also made it to the Final Four in that quarter century. In addition, St. John's (1965) and Marquette (1970) won NITs that mattered. Current Big East schools won 3 national championships.

Final Fours didn't mean the same before that, but Catholic schools were winning national championships like crazy back in the day (pre-1965):

NCAA titles - 1947, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1963
NIT titles - 1943, 1944, 1948, 1949, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1958, 1959, 1961, 1962, 1963

I'll leave it to others to argue which was the true NC and which of the NIT finalists were as good as or better than their NCAA counterparts. Butt there's no doubt that the Catholic schools produced nationally elite teams year after year.

What happened?

I'm sorry- but to say St John's and Marquette won NIT's that mattered- that's a joke. Could either of them have beaten UCLA? I seriously doubt it.

I think part of the answer is the Catholic schools at a younger age have lessened their reach. I know they're big- but don't think they're as big now as they used to be. Also, think AAU has grown so much, that has changed the equation a LOT.

[GumbyDamnit!]

3 current Big East schools have made it to the Final Four in the past 25 years. And they were the only Catholic schools to do so in that span.

In the previous 25 years, that number was 12. St. Bonaventure and Dayton also made it to the Final Four in that quarter century. In addition, St. John's (1965) and Marquette (1970) won NITs that mattered. Current Big East schools won 3 national championships.

Final Fours didn't mean the same before that, but Catholic schools were winning national championships like crazy back in the day (pre-1965):

NCAA titles - 1947, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1963
NIT titles - 1943, 1944, 1948, 1949, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1958, 1959, 1961, 1962, 1963

I'll leave it to others to argue which was the true NC and which of the NIT finalists were as good as or better than their NCAA counterparts. Butt there's no doubt that the Catholic schools produced nationally elite teams year after year.

What happened?

I have a theory that I cannot back up with data whatsoever, but speaks more to the demise of the Catholic College hoops dominance than the ascension of the larger state schools. In the 40's-60's I think BB was developed and embraced in the Catholic schools--especially in the Northeast corridor rural areas. CYO kids grew up on hoops and school like St. Bonnies and St. John's, La Salle, Holy Cross, etc. were basketball powers because the Catholic kids went to those colleges. When BB began to hit the City playgrounds and more and more poor kids started to embrace the game, it became more diversified. What happened next was UTEP, aka Texas Western. Inner city kids flocked to BB in droves and developed their skills on every playground in every city in America. Since then AAU has supplanted CYO and add in the $ trail as was described by Hall, and there you have it.

[marquette]

Not that it makes a huge difference, but I count 4 BE schools that have made it to the final four in the last 25 years.
Marquette-'03
Georgetown-'07
Villanova-'09
Butler-'10 and '11

I realize Butler isn't Catholic, but they are private and in the BE.

[Irishdawg]

Not that it makes a huge difference, but I count 4 BE schools that have made it to the final four in the last 25 years.
Marquette-'03
Georgetown-'07
Villanova-'09
Butler-'10 and '11

I realize Butler isn't Catholic, but they are private and in the BE.

Seton Hall also made it in 89', which is just outside the cutoff range of 25 years. It's cool if we're not included in any Big East lists, we've seen the buyer's remorse pretty much ever since Stevens left. Just keep sending the checks and hopefully we'll get this thing straightened out to everyone's liking (this isn't specifically addressed at you marquette).

[Bill Marsh]

3 current Big East schools have made it to the Final Four in the past 25 years. And they were the only Catholic schools to do so in that span.

In the previous 25 years, that number was 12. St. Bonaventure and Dayton also made it to the Final Four in that quarter century. In addition, St. John's (1965) and Marquette (1970) won NITs that mattered. Current Big East schools won 3 national championships.

Final Fours didn't mean the same before that, but Catholic schools were winning national championships like crazy back in the day (pre-1965):

NCAA titles - 1947, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1963
NIT titles - 1943, 1944, 1948, 1949, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1958, 1959, 1961, 1962, 1963

I'll leave it to others to argue which was the true NC and which of the NIT finalists were as good as or better than their NCAA counterparts. Butt there's no doubt that the Catholic schools produced nationally elite teams year after year.

What happened?

Bill, if the NIT mattered in '65 and '70, the I would submit that Xavier's NIT Championship in 1958 could be included in all this.

I included Xavier's NIT title. It mattered.

[Bill Marsh]

3 current Big East schools have made it to the Final Four in the past 25 years. And they were the only Catholic schools to do so in that span.

In the previous 25 years, that number was 12. St. Bonaventure and Dayton also made it to the Final Four in that quarter century. In addition, St. John's (1965) and Marquette (1970) won NITs that mattered. Current Big East schools won 3 national championships.

Final Fours didn't mean the same before that, but Catholic schools were winning national championships like crazy back in the day (pre-1965):

NCAA titles - 1947, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1963
NIT titles - 1943, 1944, 1948, 1949, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955, 1958, 1959, 1961, 1962, 1963

I'll leave it to others to argue which was the true NC and which of the NIT finalists were as good as or better than their NCAA counterparts. Butt there's no doubt that the Catholic schools produced nationally elite teams year after year.

What happened?

I'm sorry- but to say St John's and Marquette won NIT's that mattered- that's a joke. Could either of them have beaten UCLA? I seriously doubt it.

I think part of the answer is the Catholic schools at a younger age have lessened their reach. I know they're big- but don't think they're as big now as they used to be. Also, think AAU has grown so much, that has changed the equation a LOT.

Steve, when I say those NITs mattered, I mean that the winners of those tournaments were of final four caliber,not that they were necessarily of NC caliber although many of the teams in the '40's and '50'scertain.y were.

With regard to St. John's in 1965, they had to win 4 games in a 16 tournament field and had to beat #8 Villanova to win that title. To show they were of Final four caliber, I'll just compare them with Wichita State, the Midwest Rigional winner that year. There wasn't a single ranked team in that regional going into the tournament in in 1965. So, Wichita beat nobody to get to the final Four and won on.y 2 games to do so. In addition, they then lost when they got to the Final Four and lost again the consolation round.St. John's was clearly better and more importantly had accomplished more than WSU did that year.

I can't make the same argument that Marquette was better. Than any of the final four teams in 1970, nor can I make the case that they nada harder pathtot he NIT title than any of the Final Four teams did.It's too bad that we never got to see just how good that team was. They were ranked #8 in the country at the end of the regular seasonand definitely would have had a shot of contending. I thought I'd give them their due since they weren't eliminated asa. Result of their play but as a result of the politics of the time.

[Bill Marsh]

Not that it makes a huge difference, but I count 4 BE schools that have made it to the final four in the last 25 years.
Marquette-'03
Georgetown-'07
Villanova-'09
Butler-'10 and '11

I realize Butler isn't Catholic, but they are private and in the BE.

My apologies. I was focused on Catholic schools and in the process left out Butler. No offense intended. Getting to back-to-back title games was a tremendous accomplishment. I was pulling for you guys against Duke and was disappointed when the last second shot missed. Being that I'm from CT, I was rooting for UConn the next year, but that may have been the more impressive accomplishment given the scrappiness of that team and the fact that they went much further than anyone expected.