Hypothetically, Growing MBB Program?

[Bill Marsh]

The east coast school I would love to see upgrade its facilities in an effort to impress the Big East is Holy Cross. I don't know how PC would feel about the idea of another New England school in the Big East, but I think a local rival could be benefitial. I guess actually getting into Boston would be the ideal option if the Big East went shopping in New England, but Holy Cross just looks more appealing to me than Boston U or Northeastern.

Facilities aren't the issue at Holy Cross. The issue is academics. They made the decision a long time to stress their identity as an elite academic institution by building an association with other elite colleges in the Patriot League like Colgate. Lehigh, Bucknell, Lafayette, and the service academies.

Enrollment is another issue for Cross. They're simply to small to compete on this level any more.

[billyjack]

The original question is such ridiculous troll material:
"Hypothetically, can the Big East grow a men's hoops program?"

Ok, the BE has always been known for building programs. No other conference matches us. That's why 9 of us have made the NCAA's within the last 3 years... why Butler has put together its best class in school history... it's why Miami of Fla went from a non-existent hoops program to a solid team... and why West Virginia went 35+ years without a Sweet-16 til they joined tbe BE... and why Notre Dame sucked big wiener for 10+ years til they joined us.

It's why in the 80's, 6 of us made Final Fours, 2 others made Elite-8's, and the ninth earned a 2-seed.

Anyway, like Groundhog Day repeating many of the same thoughts.

[billyjack]

The east coast school I would love to see upgrade its facilities in an effort to impress the Big East is Holy Cross. I don't know how PC would feel about the idea of another New England school in the Big East, but I think a local rival could be benefitial. I guess actually getting into Boston would be the ideal option if the Big East went shopping in New England, but Holy Cross just looks more appealing to me than Boston U or Northeastern.

Facilities aren't the issue at Holy Cross. The issue is academics. They made the decision a long time to stress their identity as an elite academic institution by building an association with other elite colleges in the Patriot League like Colgate. Lehigh, Bucknell, Lafayette, and the service academies.

Enrollment is another issue for Cross. They're simply to small to compete on this level any more.

To follow up on Hall and Bill...

As a PC fan i'd love a second New England team. Holy Cross i'd be good with, though they'd suck for a while, and has the semi-vacant 12k-seat DCU Centrum in downtown Worcester. They have a dormant fanbase that has the possibility of being woken up. They'd be a huge project team. But again, they'd suck for a while.

Of the Boston schools, Boston U draws no one, possibly due to much of their student body being from NY and beyond. Northeastern to me has a lot of potential because the school has expanded from a commuter engineering school to a growing, fulltime wider-ranging school. Their gym can hold 6k and is 20 years older than Hinkle, and they'd have access to the TD Boston Garden if necessary. They hosted and had SRO for Michigan State 2 years ago. They'd be a project though.

Getting back to the Boston Terriers... the hoops team doesn't play at beautiful Agganis Arena cuz attendance is so bad... not only that, they don't even play at 3k-seat Walter Brown due to poor attendance.... instead they play upstairs from Walter Brown at Case Gym, seats 1500... and still they draw only 350 fans... crazy low support.

Both BU and Northeastern are in cool neighborhoods. Northeastern is in the artsy area, near the Boston Symphony and Berkeley School of Music, and close to the Museum of Fine Arts... plus Newbury Street shopping and the Prudential Center are around the corner.... point being, even if Northeastern sucked, it would be a cool weekend road trip for Big East fans... much better than Davidson near Charlotte or Siena in Albany. As a bonus, visiting Big East teams would get more exposure to the New England Prep School players.

So not that we should expand, and not that we need a second New England team, but if we're choosing a school in Massachusetts, to me, it should be Northeastern.

[Hall2012]

The east coast school I would love to see upgrade its facilities in an effort to impress the Big East is Holy Cross. I don't know how PC would feel about the idea of another New England school in the Big East, but I think a local rival could be benefitial. I guess actually getting into Boston would be the ideal option if the Big East went shopping in New England, but Holy Cross just looks more appealing to me than Boston U or Northeastern.

Facilities aren't the issue at Holy Cross. The issue is academics. They made the decision a long time to stress their identity as an elite academic institution by building an association with other elite colleges in the Patriot League like Colgate. Lehigh, Bucknell, Lafayette, and the service academies.

Enrollment is another issue for Cross. They're simply to small to compete on this level any more.

To follow up on Hall and Bill...

As a PC fan i'd love a second New England team. Holy Cross i'd be good with, though they'd suck for a while, and has the semi-vacant 12k-seat DCU Centrum in downtown Worcester. They have a dormant fanbase that has the possibility of being woken up. They'd be a huge project team. But again, they'd suck for a while.

Of the Boston schools, Boston U draws no one, possibly due to much of their student body being from NY and beyond. Northeastern to me has a lot of potential because the school has expanded from a commuter engineering school to a growing, fulltime wider-ranging school. Their gym can hold 6k and is 20 years older than Hinkle, and they'd have access to the TD Boston Garden if necessary. They hosted and had SRO for Michigan State 2 years ago. They'd be a project though.

Getting back to the Boston Terriers... the hoops team doesn't play at beautiful Agganis Arena cuz attendance is so bad... not only that, they don't even play at 3k-seat Walter Brown due to poor attendance.... instead they play upstairs from Walter Brown at Case Gym, seats 1500... and still they draw only 350 fans... crazy low support.

Both BU and Northeastern are in cool neighborhoods. Northeastern is in the artsy area, near the Boston Symphony and Berkeley School of Music, and close to the Museum of Fine Arts... plus Newbury Street shopping and the Prudential Center are around the corner.... point being, even if Northeastern sucked, it would be a cool weekend road trip for Big East fans... much better than Davidson near Charlotte or Siena in Albany. As a bonus, visiting Big East teams would get more exposure to the New England Prep School players.

So not that we should expand, and not that we need a second New England team, but if we're choosing a school in Massachusetts, to me, it should be Northeastern.

Bill - good points on Holy Cross, especially with their enrollment. I didn't realize it was that small.

billyjack/Bill/anyone else who cares to answer - Would you specifically want another New England team to be in Boston? What are your thoughts on some of the private schools in Connecticut, such as Hartford, Quinnipiac, or Sacred Heart? Obviously anyone we add from New England (besides UConn) would be a project. Imagine the reaction of UConn fans if the Big East was able to grow one of them to relevance (remember, the Huskies were hot garbage when they first entered the Big East too).

[Hoopfan]

And yet Dayton would do anything to have the 4 year period that UConn just had- to include winning a national title. UConn 7 wins in NCAA tourney in period- Dayton 5 wins in NCAA tourney in period.

And going forward, UConn is in a stronger conference than Dayton is. And if UConn wanted to go to the Big East, they would be in the conference immediately. Dayton, not so much.

Also love how Dayton fanboy says that the addition of Wichita makes the AAC a better basketball conference until Marshall retires or moves on. But yet, I'm kind of guessing he's not saying the same tune about Archie Miller and his beloved Dayton Flyers.

This post is ridiculous. First you fell for the trolling. Second, anyone not Kentucky or a few blue bloods would do anything for a 4 year span they had. Third, how does adding WSU not make it better?

[billyjack]

Hey Hall, you probably have a good sense of this cuz you go way back...

Yes, i'd like to get back into Boston. I have no problem sharing the region with a second team.

Stepping back a second... Boston College was never a team that had a huge passionate hoops fanbase. As a kid, Holy Cross games at the Dunk were way more raucous than BC games. URI games were nuts. UConn always had a big traveling fanbase even when they sucked. But BC games had a different feel. They conned the ACC into thinking that they would own the region, whereas any attention BC got was from feeding off their Big East conference mates.

With Connecticut, UConn really has always dominated the state fanbase. There's no school that's ever challenged UConn for state interest. Of the others, they're all way way down the list... but Quinnipiac has expanded a ton in the last 10-15 years, added campuses... i can't see them growing enough to ever challenge UConn though.

The state really has no one dominant city... so where Boston or the city of Providence get so much attention in their states (and private city schools can build a local fanbase), Connecticut has several nerve centers... Hartford, New Haven, Stamford all midrange sized cities... plus the pull of NY City.

Anyway, recently the Colonial Athletic has had a couple of solid seasons with UNC Wimington, maybe Hofstra, James Madison, with Northeastern all being solid. If the CAA catches up to the AAC, and Northeastern is a part of the success, then NU could possibly make a leap to the BE. Long ways to go though.

[stever20]

The CAA had a couple of solid seasons?

Since they lost VCU- 5 years now- the CAA has ranked in Ken Pom 18,19,18,10,12.
RPI- 22,15,20,9,11.
Their tourney champ has gotten 16,13,14,13,12 seed.
0 at large bids.

Maybe 2016 you could make a case that was solid, but still, league got 13 seed for their champion and 0 at large bids.

There's a far greater shot of me being a universally accepted moderator on here than there is of the CAA catching up to the AAC. It's going to take a lot for the CAA to catch up to the A10 even. And that has next to zero shot of happening.

[sciencejay]

The original question is such ridiculous troll material:
"Hypothetically, can the Big East grow a men's hoops program?"

Ok, the BE has always been known for building programs. No other conference matches us. That's why 9 of us have made the NCAA's within the last 3 years... why Butler has put together its best class in school history... it's why Miami of Fla went from a non-existent hoops program to a solid team... and why West Virginia went 35+ years without a Sweet-16 til they joined tbe BE... and why Notre Dame sucked big wiener for 10+ years til they joined us.

It's why in the 80's, 6 of us made Final Fours, 2 others made Elite-8's, and the ninth earned a 2-seed.

Anyway, like Groundhog Day repeating many of the same thoughts.

This isn't the 80s and it isn't your father's Big East. I think the original post has merit as we (the BEast brain trust) try to decide whether to expand (a VERY hot topic on this board), and if so, who should be invited? If we want to add a major metro area with great HS hoops within our footprint, then St. Louis is a great candidate--if and only if the NBE brand is sufficient to bring their on the court level up a major degree. If the NBE isn't enough to bring mediocre up to very good (of course this is also dependent on the SLU athletic dept and basketball coaches), then the Billikens are not even a decent candidate. As a Jesuit institution, SLU fits in every regard except program success. And Missouri HS hoops is very good--both KC and StL kids would be in play (more so than they are anyway imo).

I would argue we already have somewhat of an answer to the question with Creighton. B and X were more successful nationally than CU at the time of NBE formation in 2013. McD has said time and again that he has access to kids now that he never had when we were in the MVC. Marcus Foster is a good case in point: his last two schools coming out of high school were CU and KState. He picked KSU because of the higher profile games he would get to play in against top notch (KU et al) talent on a national scale. When that fell apart for him, CU was still high on his list due to past relationships, but with the added profile of the BEast, he chose Omaha over other good opportunities. And this year we have a Top-30(?) recruiting class. No way that happens without the BEast brand behind McD and Staff's efforts during recruiting.