If Big East Wants to Reach its Ultimate Potential, then.....

[XUFan09]

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I think St John's is much more of a flagship over Marquette- just because of the long term history. Marquette's been a fantastic add- taking nothing away from them. Don't know if we would have been as bold as we were had they not been what they had been the past several years. But fact is when folks think Big East and specifically the C7, they think of St John's, they think of Nova, and they think of Georgetown.

That may be the case in the northeast but it isn't the case where I live down here in ACC country (Raleigh). Basketball IQ is pretty high here and based on the people I interact with Marquette is more well known than St. John's is. I believe that is because for the last 10 years Marquette has been pretty much of a fixture in the Top 25, the NCAA tournament, their Final 4 and Elite 8 runs, and Dwayne Wade. MU is down this year and people notice It.

Same here in Richmond, VA. Same with when I lived in St. Louis, MO, or Pittsburgh, PA. People know the recent winners more than anything. The fact that SJU is a bubble team doesn't really affect people's perception of the Big East, as that's an above-average year for SJU recently. The fact that Marquette isn't even on the Bubble, though, affects people's perceptions.

[Bill Marsh]

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I think St John's is much more of a flagship over Marquette- just because of the long term history. Marquette's been a fantastic add- taking nothing away from them. Don't know if we would have been as bold as we were had they not been what they had been the past several years. But fact is when folks think Big East and specifically the C7, they think of St John's, they think of Nova, and they think of Georgetown.

That may be the case in the northeast but it isn't the case where I live down here in ACC country (Raleigh). Basketball IQ is pretty high here and based on the people I interact with Marquette is more well known than St. John's is. I believe that is because for the last 10 years Marquette has been pretty much of a fixture in the Top 25, the NCAA tournament, their Final 4 and Elite 8 runs, and Dwayne Wade. MU is down this year and people notice It.

Same here in Richmond, VA. Same with when I lived in St. Louis, MO, or Pittsburgh, PA. People know the recent winners more than anything. The fact that SJU is a bubble team doesn't really affect people's perception of the Big East, as that's an above-average year for SJU recently. The fact that Marquette isn't even on the Bubble, though, affects people's perceptions.

Perhaps the perception of Marquette in the Northeast is different because despite its success in the NCAA tournament, Marquette has not been a factor in the Big East tournament where they were one and done during the three years when they went on to make runs to the Sweet 16 and beyond. Never made it to the Big East tournament finals. Made it to the semis only once. Losing record in total during 8 BE tournaments. That's the week when BE fans are paying close attention to each other.

[SJHooper]

1. 2011: we also beat Duke and we were nowhere near as good as Duke. So who cares?
2. Only teams with 9 tourney appearances need to pick a small window to focus on because their overall program is very weak.
3. Totally different Big East now
4. Who cares? The rest of the country has surpassed NYC as the premier talent pool for ballers. Back in the day NYC was a real hot spot for recruits. Now there are great players all over the country. By the way, since you brought it up: you literally had to pimp a player out through his coach to get him. Your program promised IW's coach a position on the staff for the sole reason of signing IW. IW made it obvious he wanted to go to SJ until the eleventh hour when his coach demanded that Lavin take him with IW as a package deal. We did not stoop to that level, so we said go ahead to SHU. And there he is. SHU needed to pimp a player out to get him. Draw your own conclusions. This is also the same Seton Hall fanbase that creeped out Kyle Anderson who raised an eyebrow and walked away.

I'm finished with the SHU v. SJU thing though. People know it's not even close overall. 9 vs. 28. That says it all. We are the 7th winningest program in the country. We fell on hard times the past 2 decades mostly, but we are clearly on the way back up. Enjoy your day. Once you get to double digits in tourney appearances we can continue this.

Oh you're back on this again- "wahhhhhhh nobody can possibly beat the almighty St. John's (on the court or in recruiting) without cheating." Now let's point out something that you conveniently left out. That IW was leaning heavily towards SHU until that last minute visit to SJU (the day before he was going to decide). Then speculation was that he changed his mind to SJU during that visit (wonder how much $$$ he was offered). So either that speculation was wrong and he didn't change his mind, or he changed it back afterwords because he chose SHU. He never "made it obvious he wanted to go to SJ." Seton Hall was a finalist in his recruitment the entire time, long before any mention of Morton joining the SHU staff came up, so your claim about that being "the sole reason of signing IW" is just an obvious sign of your jealousy and ignorance.

The only difference is that you totally made your accusation up about SJ offering money. The Seton Hall IW deal was closed because of greasy, backdoor deals involving bring his coach along. We know this for a fact. Don't be angry you were caught with your pants down over there.

SHU has 9 tourney appearances in its entire history. That is absolutely pathetic. It's very interesting how other fans say SJ fans shouldn't talk about being a decent program because we suck compared to Nova, G'Town, and even Marquette recently. But that's still with 28 appearances, 2 Final Four's, an Elite 8, and being on the bubble the past 2 years. If SJ fans aren't allowed to talk because our program sucks, what does that make SHU? And why are their fans allowed to talk trash and get away with it? Oh, wait! I know! Pick me Ms. Crabtree! Some of you just hate the program and wish to see it run into the ground. Not sure why that is because like it or not we ARE essential to the national perception this conference will be given. You don't have to like it, but it's true and you know it deep down anyway.

Nova fans telling me I'm posting BS that's "wrong and wrong again!" even though my source is Lunardi. Not something I pulled out of fairy land. Hall fans tell me SJ sucks even though we have over 3x the tourney appearances and no fair-minded person would even attempt to debate the 2 teams in relevance and tradition. Seems to me that SJ is the popular target and some posters have ADMITTED they have anti-NY bias. I think that speaks volumes. You want to speak of little man syndrome? I think some people have little city or small country syndrome and that's partly why they hate us. The other part is probably Pointer.

[XUFan09]

Perhaps the perception of Marquette in the Northeast is different because despite its success in the NCAA tournament, Marquette has not been a factor in the Big East tournament where they were one and done during the three years when they went on to make runs to the Sweet 16 and beyond. Never made it to the Big East tournament finals. Made it to the semis only once. Losing record in total during 8 BE tournaments. That's the week when BE fans are paying close attention to each other.

I agree, it does sound like the perception might be different in the Northeast.

I'm not talking about Big East fans specifically but college basketball fans in general, and I'm referring more to the regular season than the conference tournament.

[Frank the Tank]

Chicago is a terrible college sports town.

Listen to this all day long, Ill give you a cookie if you can string together 1 hour of college sports talk in 24 hours.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/station/670-the-score/

I'll disagree with this. Chicago is a great college sports town....just none of the teams happen to be in Chicago. Chicago is kind of like Boston where there's a lot of colleges, but none are really that great at anything. When your city's D1 teams are DePaul, UIC, Chicago State, Loyola Chicago, and Northwestern (Evanston), then can you really blame people for not turning out?

Chicago is, and always will be a Big Ten expat and alumni town. Walk around the north side on any given Saturday afternoon and you'll see the Buckeye alums stumbling out of their packed bars and the Wolverines, Spartans, Hawkeyes, Illini, and Hoosiers stumbling out of theirs. Notre Dame of course is a beast all itself.

Yes, this is true. Chicago is definitely a pro sports town first and foremost, but it would also be a grave mistake to lump it in with NYC and Boston where college sports are a blip on the radar. The sheer numbers of Big Ten alums here alone (remember that even out-of-state Big Ten schools often send enough grads to just Chicago annually that would be larger than the entire graduating classes at many private schools) are enough to fuel entire neighborhoods of bars on the North Side and drive media coverage, plus Notre Dame is a short drive away and is treated as a local team with all of the Subway Alums. DePaul actually was the biggest winter sports team in town during the '70s and early-'80s, but the last decade definitely hasn't been kind. The new arena will be a good asset, but they definitely need to win with how much sports competition is in town.

The irony is that during the period that the DePaul basketball program has gone downward, the profile of DePaul as an overall school in Chicago has risen dramatically. DePaul's main Lincoln Park location has become a massive asset - kids that would have commuted 30 years ago now all want to live there because it's one of the best pound-for-pound locations for a college in the country (and that's increasingly being the case near DePaul's South Loop campus, too, which has gone from a "meh" neighborhood to one with gleaming high-rises and college students everywhere). One would hope that the basketball program can tap into that overall institutional energy. DePaul is essentially what St. John's would be if you moved it to NYU's location.

[SJHooper]

Chicago is a terrible college sports town.

Listen to this all day long, Ill give you a cookie if you can string together 1 hour of college sports talk in 24 hours.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/station/670-the-score/

I'll disagree with this. Chicago is a great college sports town....just none of the teams happen to be in Chicago. Chicago is kind of like Boston where there's a lot of colleges, but none are really that great at anything. When your city's D1 teams are DePaul, UIC, Chicago State, Loyola Chicago, and Northwestern (Evanston), then can you really blame people for not turning out?

Chicago is, and always will be a Big Ten expat and alumni town. Walk around the north side on any given Saturday afternoon and you'll see the Buckeye alums stumbling out of their packed bars and the Wolverines, Spartans, Hawkeyes, Illini, and Hoosiers stumbling out of theirs. Notre Dame of course is a beast all itself.

Yes, this is true. Chicago is definitely a pro sports town first and foremost, but it would also be a grave mistake to lump it in with NYC and Boston where college sports are a blip on the radar. The sheer numbers of Big Ten alums here alone (remember that even out-of-state Big Ten schools often send enough grads to just Chicago annually that would be larger than the entire graduating classes at many private schools) are enough to fuel entire neighborhoods of bars on the North Side and drive media coverage, plus Notre Dame is a short drive away and is treated as a local team with all of the Subway Alums. DePaul actually was the biggest winter sports team in town during the '70s and early-'80s, but the last decade definitely hasn't been kind. The new arena will be a good asset, but they definitely need to win with how much sports competition is in town.

The irony is that during the period that the DePaul basketball program has gone downward, the profile of DePaul as an overall school in Chicago has risen dramatically. DePaul's main Lincoln Park location has become a massive asset - kids that would have commuted 30 years ago now all want to live there because it's one of the best pound-for-pound locations for a college in the country (and that's increasingly being the case near DePaul's South Loop campus, too, which has gone from a "meh" neighborhood to one with gleaming high-rises and college students everywhere). One would hope that the basketball program can tap into that overall institutional energy. DePaul is essentially what St. John's would be if you moved it to NYU's location.

I guarantee SJ has a MUCH bigger presence in the NYC area than DePaul does in Chicago. People know who the team is…they see me with a SJ shirt and ask about the team and how they've been. After big wins I get fist bumps on the train by strangers. I bet that doesn't happen in Chicago with DePaul. We still have billboards in Times Square, entire subway cars covered with ads, cabs, signs outside MSG, our name on the MSG sign, LIRR stops, buses, etc. Hell, even in Florida I've been stopped by people who see my SJ hat and say "So Johnnies huh? How they doing?".

When SJ is good people flock to support them as seen in 2011. Win in NYC and there's nothing like it. The support is phenomenal. But if you are mediocre or bad no one will care until you prove yourself again. NY is still very much a pro sports town, but college hoops are still loved especially when SJ is actually good.